Bought a scale!

[rabbitsfizz]

It is NOT a "hay belly", you keep getting side tracked by this term.

It is a "pot belly" due to lack of protein, he needs more, not less, and he needs ( I would guess as I have not seen your hay) a better, softer hay and more of it.

I applaud you trying to learn, and I can see how confused you are getting, but, basically, a horses digestive system works on having roughage (hay or grass) passing through it 22 out of 24 hours a day.

If you stop this you are risking colic, at worse, or a very depressed horse chewing his walls and eating non food stuffs.

You do not need to , nor should you, cut down on his hay.

You should listen to what you are being told here, not just by me, there are others desperately trying, far more diplomatically than am i, to help you get this little horse right, but you keep pinging back to this obsession about cutting down his hay to get rid of the "hay belly"!!! Sorry, I really am sorry, I am NOT "having a go" at you, but you need to get a few facts straight.

It is NOT a hay belly.

It is NOT due to too much hay.

It might be due to the wrong sort of hay.

It is usually due to not enough feed/protein.

You can give him colic by not giving him enough hay,

Beet Pulp is good roughage but it is not as good as hay, and, anyway, you do not need to cut down on his hay, so we are going round in circles again.

Why not just give him free choice, good, soft hay and up his protein slowly?

At this point, with respect, I am past caring what your Vet says.

I do, however, care deeply what happens to your sweet little horse, and I can see that you do too.

I have the greatest respect for the way you are trying so hard, but you need to learn one simple rule;_

K.I.S.S

Keep It Simple, Stupid (no offence, there, I use this rule!!)

No fuss, just ad lib hay and a good diet, produces a horse that looks like this.

This is DC after his first clip in April, I had to clip him to find him under the hair, I normally show him unclipped, so he looks like this:

But I wanted to show you what my two year old, 29" colt looked like after overwintering, outside 24/7 with ad lib hay and one big bucket feed a day. He was out with a stallion, another colt and two geldings and they played quite a lot.

In the second picture he is at a show in summer, and he is stalled at night, has two feeds a day and ad lib hay at night and is out on grass all day.

Now, honestly, does he have a hay belly????

 

[Minimor]

Keep in mind that it isn't just about the weight of the hay, it is the quality of the hay. A fine, leafy hay is best, then the horse eats it all & will get full value out of it. With a coarser, more stalky hay, there is more bulk and less value in it--if I have to feed such a hay I feed more of it, that way the horses can pick through it and eat the best stuff & leave the coarse stalks. Force them to eat it by feeding them less of it & you court disaster in the form of impaction colic.

Hay with higher protein will go further....horse needs less of it to get the nutrients he needs. If the protein is low, the horse needs to have more of it to give him what he needs....a pound of one does not equal a pound of the other!

And yes, horses can colic from being fed too little. I had a friend who had a major issue with colic in her first Mini. Finally she got it figured out, and said to me one day that she realizes now that she wasn't feeding him enough, that's why he had colic so often. Since she increased his feed he has had no further colic episodes.

 

[O So]

It is NOT a "hay belly", you keep getting side tracked by this term.

It is a "pot belly" due to lack of protein, he needs more, not less, and he needs ( I would guess as I have not seen your hay) a better, softer hay and more of it.

I applaud you trying to learn, and I can see how confused you are getting, but, basically, a horses digestive system works on having roughage (hay or grass) passing through it 22 out of 24 hours a day.

If you stop this you are risking colic, at worse, or a very depressed horse chewing his walls and eating non food stuffs.

You do not need to , nor should you, cut down on his hay.

You should listen to what you are being told here, not just by me, there are others desperately trying, far more diplomatically than am i, to help you get this little horse right, but you keep pinging back to this obsession about cutting down his hay to get rid of the "hay belly"!!! Sorry, I really am sorry, I am NOT "having a go" at you, but you need to get a few facts straight.

It is NOT a hay belly.

It is NOT due to too much hay.

It might be due to the wrong sort of hay.

It is usually due to not enough feed/protein.

You can give him colic by not giving him enough hay,

Beet Pulp is good roughage but it is not as good as hay, and, anyway, you do not need to cut down on his hay, so we are going round in circles again.

Why not just give him free choice, good, soft hay and up his protein slowly?

At this point, with respect, I am past caring what your Vet says.

I do, however, care deeply what happens to your sweet little horse, and I can see that you do too.

I have the greatest respect for the way you are trying so hard, but you need to learn one simple rule;_

K.I.S.S

Keep It Simple, Stupid (no offence, there, I use this rule!!)

No fuss, just ad lib hay and a good diet, produces a horse that looks like this.

This is DC after his first clip in April, I had to clip him to find him under the hair, I normally show him unclipped, so he looks like this:

But I wanted to show you what my two year old, 29" colt looked like after overwintering, outside 24/7 with ad lib hay and one big bucket feed a day. He was out with a stallion, another colt and two geldings and they played quite a lot.

In the second picture he is at a show in summer, and he is stalled at night, has two feeds a day and ad lib hay at night and is out on grass all day.

Now, honestly, does he have a hay belly????

Thanks Rabbitsfizz, I know you are not trying to be mean and I appreciate your post! Yes, I am still confused and O So sometimes doesn't help in the matter! LOL Like yesterday, I fed him a pound of hay for his morning feed, and a pound for his lunch, plus the grain at lunch. Then another pound in the evening plus his grain. His belly was pretty big by that feeding. I only gave him 1/2 a pound of hay that night. This morning his belly is still pretty large.

In the mornings I have been giving him a hay that didn't look like it has much in it. A lot of stems and maybe some barley. I will cut that out and just give him the Orchard hay and alfalfa! Maybe that will help. Like you said, maybe the quality is just not there in that hay!

Oh, and I didn't listen the my vet (short lived vet) either. I listened to you guy's and kept feeding him what I had been. I was just showing what a small amount a pound of my hay would be IF I cut him down to that!! I fully agree that he isn't getting enough protein. I think if I start giving him more alfalfa and less of that barley looking hay, that should help. I heard alfalfa has alot of protein in it. That and the switching to Strategy!!

I think getting a busyhorse will help too. O So will stay and eat every drop of hay when I feed him. So that is why I haven't done the free choice. I'm affraid he will just stay at the feed box the whole time. That and he doesn't get a whole lot of exercise. I just started taking him to the SHA stables and letting him loose in the arena, that and walking him all over the trails there. Other then that, if we are at home. He doesn't run and play much! Although I am trying there too. I have a jolly ball and just got a beach ball type ball. I try to get him to play with me! LOL

Thanks again for the post!! Oh and yah, your guy looks great!! I WILL get O So to look like that!! I am determined!!

 

[Mominis]

O So, learning to feed minis is very difficult. I totally agree. I came from large horses and nutrition is a hobby of mine. But, learning to feed my minis has been one of the most difficult things I've had to learn. Bless you for trying so hard to give your horse what your he needs.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I have not been keeping up on other posts by this member so I haven't seen the horse and may have missed other important background information, but am I the only one who noticed she said the horse is out on pasture all day?

Barring that "pasture" being too short to actually get anything, it sounds like the horse is theoretically getting plenty of oral stimulation and roughage. The hay is only a supplement to maintain weight.

Now, that said, I absolutely agree with Fizz and the others who have said that a pot belly is not an indication that the horse needs less food but rather more. Much more! It's good to give them light grain to supplement their protein intake and beet pulp to fill in the topline but the best thing in the world is simply plenty of food (hay) and, later, exercise to tone that weight.

My dry-lotted 33" two year old colt is getting a large pile of grass hay three times a day, four cups of beet pulp, two small cans of Strategy, another can of Equine Senior and some canola oil split between two feedings a day and he looks trim and tight because he is growing and NEEDS all that food to stay strong and slim! I would never have thought so but I followed the advice of several folks I know who consistently raise happy, healthy, trim-looking yearlings without any forced exercise and they were absolutely right. He was underweight when I got him so we started with almost free-choice hay and what felt like a ton of beet pulp along with some Strategy (following the instructions on the bag) and I kept waiting for him to start getting too fat but he never did so we just stayed with those amounts. I can't argue with what's in front of me!

My older 33.5" gelding, on the other hand, has been driving me nuts recently. He kept on with the big belly but his topline wasn't hollow and I made the mistake of adding beet pulp to his diet trying to "get rid of the belly." The amounts just crept up without me really noticing how much he was getting until my mom finally pointed out the poor horse was developing a dimple over his tail and I had to admit he was just plain FAT. Too much hay, too much beet pulp, too much grain for the reduced level of work he's experiencing. I dropped EVERYTHING by at least a third and got rid of the beet pulp almost entirely and it's amazing how he's suddenly slimming down and looking more trim!

Now he gets a reasonable amount of grass hay three times a day and a tiny taste of beet pulp with 1/3 of a can of Strategy and a handful of Senior just for his meds twice a day. This is far, far less than the other horse is getting and yet he's in no danger of becoming skinny anytime soon.

So it just goes to show that you really have to pay attention to the particular animal because no two are the same even on identical lots and identical feeds. Your boy sounds very much like he's one who needs more roughage and a little bit of grain and I'd wait on adding anything else until you see how he does on that simple diet. Just like people, horses may look fatter or slimmer from day to day or at one time of day but you can't see any real, permanent change for at least a couple of weeks. Ignore a bigger belly in the evening and keep on keeping on!

Good luck!

Leia

P.S.- I should mention that the only reason my horses get two kinds of complete feed is because my older riding horse was on Equine Senior and the yearling mini came to me already on Strategy. I prefer the texture of the Equine Senior for clicker training work so he got a little in his feed to introduce him to it.

 

[wingnut]

It took me a full year to get to a point where I believe I've got the feeding of my minis to a point that I'm satisfied with the results. It is confusing! It can be frustrating! And if you have more than one with needs that are the exact opposite of each other, well it's enough to make you want to pull your hair out

One lesson I learned this summer was to have some patience. My hard keeper is now looking wonderful but it took almost 3 full months of her current feeding program to get her there.

Keep up the good work. Keep searching for information. You'll find what works for you guy, truly you will!

 

[Minimor]

If he has a big belly and a top line that is not well rounded, and he is cleaning up all his hay at each feeding and looking for more....then he is hungry. If he were cleaning up all his hay and looking for more and was well rounded all over so that he could actually be called fat then I would say he is a greedy little pig that cannot have unlimited hay. But, in this case I would say that doesn't apply--fat and overeating isn't his problem.

Personally I would increase his hay to the point where he doesn't quite have it all cleaned up by the next feed--let him eat his fill for a few days.

Do not go by the size of his belly to judge if he's eating too much. A pound of hay at a feeding should not make his belly increase in size. Mine each get more like 7 lbs of hay per feed 2x a day, and there isn't a one of them that will have a noticeably bigger belly when they'd finished eating. Some of mine are taller horses, but the smallest of them wouldn't have a full belly on 1 lb of hay, even with a pound or two of grain added. Our hay this year is not the highest in protein so mine aren't even fat on that ration, but not a one of them has a big belly either--they are pretty well all in just nice shape.

"out on pasture all day" doesn't mean a whole lot either--I have two groups that are out on pasture 24/7 but they sure don't get enough grass to fill them up--not even close. The "pasture" gives them something to do if they want to go out & wander around & nibble what grass they find--they each still get their several pounds of hay twice a day.

 

[R Whiteman]

You may have already check for parasites, but if you have not it might not hurt to check .

There has been some mighty fine advise given by the others members on this forum on this topic. This is a topic that can be very sensitive to many members and we are not always as frank as we need to be. I join the others and thank you for bringing this up. There are many out here

( including me) that may learn from this discussion. Here is my two cents…

Good quality hay is the foundation used to build a feeding program. I looked at the photo of the hay. I have certainly seen a great deal worse looking hay being used to feed horses. I am not going to venture on its quality as I can't feel it or smell it and I don't know the history in its making. However, even the best looking hay may or may not be what you think it is in terms of usable nutrients to the horse. We have discovered in our area that the local hay sometimes lack sufficient calcium and other minerals that horses need to properly utilize the food we were giving them. We use local hay knowing that there are some things lacking and feed to supplement the hay. So it would not hurt to have your hay checked to make sure what you are feeding. The results just may surprise you.

Ron

P.S.

I have also found that sometimes saving two or three dollars a bale on bargain hay doesn't always add up to such a bargain in the long run.

 

[O So]

Here's a couple pics of O So after (well during, he's still eating) eating almost free choice. I fed him about a little over a pound of hay at 2pm. plus his grain. After reading about how I should try to feed him enough to almost last to the next meal, I topped off his hay with about a 1/2 pound at about 2.30pm. At 5pm ( little earlier then I wanted, do to the 2 pm feeding) I fed him his other grain ration and another pound or so of hay. He actually left some in the hay ben and went to the yard by the time I got home at 7pm. I fed him his last feeding of hay at that time. This is what he looks like right now! 7.30pm He is still munching and there is still hay in the bin!

His tummy getting that big is the reason it scares me to free feed him!! I need to just get over that fear and see how things go! I would think he would stop eating once he gets full!! I hope! LOL

 

[O So]

Ok, I made the last post and then went to check on him. There is still a lot of hay in the bin and he is over in the dry lot resting! I think he got full!

Sorry for being such a worry wort and keep bringing this stuff up!!!

You guy's have been great for putting up with me!!

 

[rubyviewminis]

Boy am I glad I stopped to read this thread! My little 30.50 rescued mare looks identical to the two sets of pictures you posted. Before with hay belly and less topline, and after if I let her eat all she wants. I have been struggling all summer to find the right combination of feeds for her! Like someone said earlier, I have been pulling my hair out! The currant grass hay I am feeding her with the 2 and 3 year old is wide stemmed and probably not enough for her. She is on ration balancer too, but now I wonder if I should include alfalfa in her diet? The others look slightly chubby but not her. And I noticed all of them seem to want more to eat this time of year growing their winter coats and getting ready for winter. Has anyone else ever noticed this?

But thankyou so much, I finally have some viewpoints to consider to reformulate her diet. I was afraid to give her the alfalfa because her hooves were overgrown and twisted when we brought her home. Two are normal now, one almost normal and the last is a work in progress. I thought she looked like she had foundered before, she is sound, but she is also very delicate and small. So now I guess I will add some Safechoice to her diet and slowly start some alfalfa, unless anyone thinks this would not be a good idea?

By the way, Lily also had a tearduct infection when we got her. The vet said to leave it alone and watch in case it started turning form white discharge to another color. I just kept her eyes cleaned daily with Vetericyn, and in a couple months she was fine. But we have a lot of dry dust here too.

 

[Marty]

You must be ready to tear your hair out by now. :arg!

Ulcers, dirt, sand, and worms also will contribute to a belly. You can easily treat for all of that.

I saw your video and your pictures and I don't see a backbone sticking up and your shoulder thing is just his conformation and lack of conditioning in my humble opinion.

If you put him on a program of forced exercise about 10-15 minutes a day you would see a change in body shape over time but the key is to stick to the program every day and trotting is the best form of exercise I prefer. Chasing him around to run, nah...he can do that on his own. I also like hiking up these steep trails we have which helps also.

I have a 30 incher that is built like a bulldozer and gets fat on air so I feel your pain.

 

[~Lisa~]

Mine each get more like 7 lbs of hay per feed 2x a day,

Oh my Holly you feed your ponies and minis 14 lbs of hay a day? + grain and I am reading that right? Sheesh I thought mine were hard keepers LOL I will not complain anymore... of course you live in a area with VERY cold winters so I am sure that accounts for some of it

 

[muffntuf]

I am going to suggest something. Have you given this young guys some probiotics? I have used this off an on when I get a pony that blows up during feeding time. Two things I have worked out - 1) They blow up because the type of feed isn't giving them what they need - usually I add more protein and take away some of the bulk. 2) Some need some help in their digestion and probiotics seems to reduce the level of irritation for their stomachs.

I have one filly, which was not born on my place and was weaned to early in my opinion, and she blows up easily during feeding time. She was doing fine until I got back from Congress and switched her off the feed she was on, which had probiotics in it. I started her back on it and she is fine again.

 

[Minimor]

Oh my Holly you feed your ponies and minis 14 lbs of hay a day? + grain and I am reading that right? Sheesh I thought mine were hard keepers LOL I will not complain anymore... of course you live in a area with VERY cold winters so I am sure that accounts for some of it

Yeah, last winter a 70 lb bale of mixed hay was feeding 9-10 ponies, and they weren't gaining weight on that. They were pretty much cleaning it all up too. The young ones were getting grain as well, the mature ones were getting just the hay. Summer time they get a bit less...depends too on the hay quality. Right now my mixed hay has some fine prairie hay in it & they don't care for that much--they are getting generous feeds of it so they can pick through & not have to eat every bit of it. I don't believe in forcing them to eat every bit of hay that they don't like, or else go hungry--what they leave gets used as bedding so it's not a complete waste--it saves me some on straw for awhile.

Tehre were a couple years where we had very strong alfalfa, 100% alfalfa in some cases, and that year the hay was higher in protein. They would gain weight on that stuff, too easily, so they had to have less of it. I sure wouldn't feed them free choice on that hay!