Breeding advice!

[riven]

Hi everyone,

I am after some breeding tips and advice please from those of you who are experienced in this field?!

I have a mare who I think must have reabsorbed her foal this year. I tested her at 81 days with the Weefoal 38 and she showed positive (also having not returned in heat since covering). I then retested her the other week with the 120 as I know its meant to be more reliable and she tested a strong negative. This mare is 19 years old and I bought her last year as I LOVE her babies (her last foal took the 2011 Supreme AMHA title for the UK at one of our shows over here under an American judge). She is an import herself from Scott Creek stud.

Now I know 19 is getting on a bit but she is otherwise very healthy and bright, lots of energy and quite a dominant character. Although I took her down to stud in March, she didn't come into season until May (the stallion noticed a similar pattern with quite a few mares of her own, of various ages this year for whatever reason, weather or something? Wasn't just her). She appeared to hold first time as didn't show heat when teased at 3 weeks, but then returned at 6 weeks and was recovered. I left her there for two more heats (just to make sure she didn't return at 6 weeks again) and all seemed fine. Then after the Weefoal 38 I was quite confident. I am really disappointed

Now we are going to try again next year, and I have arranged for the vet to do a pre-breeding exam before I take her down there. My problem is that they need her to have had her first heat before examining her. Ideally I really want her to start cycling early so I can get her examined early then away to stud early to give ourselves the best chance!! What can I do to get her to start cycling early in the year? Lights or hormone injections or something? Has anyone had experience of using either/both of these?

I would really appreciate some advice if anyone has anything to offer on any aspect of this problem! I appreciate fertility declines with age and I really want to maximise my chances as best I can

Thanks! Liz

 

[Carolyn R]

Get her under lights in the stall. Ideally, she should have been started already, at least here on the east coast of the US. If your days are still short, by increasing the amount of light she takes in through her retinas and convincing her pituitary gland into starting stronger hormone production should get her to go into a heat cycle earlier. The light must be strong enough, from a human's perspective, to clearly read a news paper in the far corner of the stall.

As long as she has carried foals to term without issue within the last couple years without complication, i would not be too concerned about her carrying to term. As long as a vet deems her as healthy, she may have a couple years of potential foal production left, but you are correct in wanting to closely monitor her health and foaling ability.

I personally would probably stay away from hormone injections at her age. If she can get into foal on her own fine. If she needs hormones to do so, it may be mother nature's way of taking her out of the gene pool for a good reason. Just my thought on the matter.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Multiple factors cause a mare to cycle, but altering 'day length' tends to be one of the easiest factors to alter. December 22nd is the shortest day of the year, as we are already past that date then adding lights now will do next to nothing. The best results are achieved by adding lights October 1st.

The only hormone that can induce ovulation when a mare is in this anestrus period is GnRH. But, it works only about 50-60% of the time and the timing is dependent upon each mare, so she should be ultra-sounded repeatedly.

Her history of skipping heat cycles does not guarantee that she was pregnant and then lost it. I would encourage you to include a culture, cytology, and uterine biopsy as part of her reproductive exam.

Good Luck!!

Dr. Taylor

 

[riven]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies! I am slightly confused about the light issue as keep reading contradictory views on it...! Dr. Taylor I have just today read an article which seems to state that even short (21 day) exposure to light can have a beneficial effect (and seems to be post Dec 22nd) so wonder what you think of that. Yes you are right we have had the shortest day here and I can see what you mean with that too. Here is the article:

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Veterinary+Equine/Fooling-Mother-Nature-Induction-of-estrus-and-ovul/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/310025

The second thing I am slightly confused about is that if I go with lights (which I think I will definitely start tomorrow, as even if the effects are less as too late, any benefit is welcome), does it matter whether I go straight in for 16 hours of light or must it be increasing?? Most of the stuff I have read says it doesn't matter which plan you go with, but then the odd person says it should be increasing. 16 hour straight would be best for me as I am not around at the right time consistantly enough to do it otherwise.

Also, Dr. Taylor, interesting what you said about her not necessarily being in foal and losing it due to not returning in heat. What would cause a mare to only show every other heat maybe? She did test positive with the weefoal 38 so I think she may well have held the second covering then lost it but am interested in why she may not be showing (The first covering she did not return at 3 weeks but returned bang on the nose at 6 weeks, in time with her cycle, which would indicate to me she hadn't taken the first time as was still in synch?).

Thanks for that article Castle Rock, very helpful! And Carolyn too, really appreciated

Liz

 

[Lewella]

Some mares have silent heats and don't show unless actually LIVING in with the stallion. You can ultrasound them though to determine when they are actually in heat.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Adding light after December 22nd can have some beneficial effect, but that effect is pretty minuscule especially when compared to starting earlier.

Mares can have silent heats or no heats or uterine inflammation leading to unpredictable heat cycles. Normal mares average 21 day cycles. Many mares aren't normal (diseased) and many will cycle faster or slower than 21 days.

Dr. Taylor

 

[rabbitsfizz]

TBH I found light more use for shedding coats than getting seasons started, but it is well worth a try! Have you had her ultra-sounded to see if all is well inside?? That would be my first port of call.

 

[riven]

Hi rabbitsfizz,

Thanks for that, I am giving the lights a go as better some effect than nothing! Re the ultrasound, don't know whether you saw my whole post but that's basically what it was about, that I need them to be cycling before the vets will do the pre-breeding U/S and exam that I have discussed with them. So I really want them cycling early if poss.

Liz

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Actually, no, you need an ultra sound before you breed to make sure everything is in order inside- there is no point breeding the animal and then finding out there are a number of reasons she should not be bred......

 

[Lewella]

Ultrasound can and should be done before they ever come in heat like Jane said. A good repro vet will be able to use the ultrasound to check the ovaries and see if they are functioning properly. That's when most vets will decide if hormone treatment is necessary. The mare does need to be in heat with her cervix open in order to do a culture and uterine biopsy though.

 

[riven]

Hi Rabbitsfizz,

I think you are misunderstanding me. What I am doing is having an ultrasound and culture/cytology before the mare is bred which is why I have been referring to it as a "pre-breeding exam". The reason I am keen to have them cycling early is that my vet has said much more information can be gained by doing this exam when the mare is out of the winter anestrus period, so I want her to have had her first season at least.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It is a chicken and egg thing- her seasons are irregular, so she isn't likely to come into season early, without help, but your Vet doesn't want to check to see if she needs hormones until she comes into season....well, the injection is out, that's for sure as it would affect the results.

I would have her ultra-sounded now and then again when she has come into season, myself, at her age you cannot afford to miss any more time, a mare only has so many eggs for a life time and they are all different...

 

[Lewella]

I agree with Jane. I've spent some time in Thoroughbred country and have watched a lot of regular reproductive work on problem older mares. Ultrasound is always done first to determine what should be done next.

 

[riven]

Just wanted to update this thread to say that I did the lighting protocol as people suggested.... and it has worked wonderfully! Both the mare I posted about and another older mare were put under lights and both have come into season. It means I am able to take them to the vets to be examined now they are cycling, really pleased with the results so thanks for your help!

Liz

 

[targetsmom]

Glad to hear that the lights seemed to work. I guess I missed this back in January, but I would just add that I would not put too much stock in any results from the WeeFoal 38. In 2011 we had a negative and a positive on the SAME urine sample, both tests done the same way, within minutes of each other. Also had a wrong result earlier that year. I don't trust that test any more but I am still having good luck with the WeeFoal 120 (and ultra sounds!).

 

[riven]

Thanks for that! Out of interest, did the mare whose sample tested both positive and negative in the same day actually turn out to be in foal? What I am wondering is if there have been false positives with the weefoal 38, or just false negatives... I have a foal on the ground, and another mare due around now, both who tested positive with the weefoal 120 (although one did get a ghost line, and I retested immediately and got a strong positive), so 100% success rate for that this year so far

This year though, I am going to do ultrasounds.

Liz

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

There seems to be some confusion about whether mares 'can be' ultra-sounded, cultured, or biopsied at certain times of the year or days during a cycle.

First, mares 'can' have any of these procedures performed any day, any time; but at particular times the information gathered from these tests might be more or less valid and the procedures are more or less easily performed.

The cervix of a horse is never so tight as to make culture and biopsy impossible. The cervix will not be damaged by opening it. But, mares with open cervices are easier to work on.

During winter anestrus (that period of time when most mares don't cycle) information gleaned from ultrasounds, cultures, and biopsies is of limited or no value.

Dr. Taylor

 

[riven]

That ties in exactly with what my vet was saying Dr. Taylor! I am taking the mare to be examined tomorrow as she is in season now. Fingers crossed I will get her in foal this year

Liz