Breeding mare with ovarian cysts

[HGFarm]

Ok, have done some of my own research and Nathan, I disagree. You are saying that cows and humans get 'real' cysts and equines do not?

Here is an article that I will attach a link to that is some interesting reading for you all

http://patho.vetmed.ufl.edu/teach/vem5162/...uctive/lec3.htm

And another...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1474553

And yet another...

http://thehorse.com/TopicSearch/Default.as...Cysts&tag=1

P.S. Just edited to mention that nowhere in articles I have read does it say that the ovarian cysts in mares are 'fake'.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The link to the UFl lecture notes is correct... that is a cystic overy. Unfortunately, its not a mare's overy. A mare's overy is shaped like a kidney, with a spot called the "ovulation fossa" in the center of the "kidney bean" area. Those follicles ovulated out to the nearest wall. The mare is unique in this conformation, no other animal has an ovulation fossa.

The second link is similar... I didn't read it word for word, but it does describe cystic overies in other species, which is correct. But I didn't see anything about equines specifically having cysts, since they do not.

The third link talks about ovarian granulosa cell tumors, which is what I was talking about. They also discuss uterine cysts which are very common, and cause no problems with the breeding process, but do cause problems with fertility if they are involved enough. I work with the vet that did the major work in this field.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see any references to equine ovarian cysts in those links.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I have to ask... everyone tells me to open my ears and listen to people who have been doing this longer than me. Why can't people read what I say through my years of experience and education? I have nearly 20x the reproductive learning compared to your out-of-school veterinarian. I TAUGHT vets and vet students.

Presentation!!!! Attitude!!! The sheer superiority complex and refusal to even consider for a moment that you might not know everything there is to know about everything out there. I am sure you have a lot to contribute, but your know-it-all attitude and presentation discredits the actual information. Nuf' said.

As to the original question. I would talk to my vet and get the exact scoop on the type, size and number of these cysts. As a woman with cysts of different kind (oops, there we go humanizing again) some are painful and some are not. Sometimes the level of pain and size of the cysts can depend on hormone levels. Me, for example--I have not been able to maintain a pregnancy. An Arabian mare I used to own had no pain with hers and was able to have one foal out of 6 years of letting her live with her beau (of whom SHE was the boss--really funny) while the people I got my arab/welsh mare from bred her for many years hoping for a baby and she never got pregnant. From what I understand she would let them know if she was not comfortable and got vicious toward the stud!! This is a mare 5 year olds rode--a real doll. THAT lets me know that she feels the same thing I as a woman do. This is a very individual thing--I would work with your vet and make sure the mare isn't in any sort of pain first--and then work out the risk factor of the pregnancy from there. The rest of us can speculate all we want, but only you and your vet can decide what is best for your mare. Good luck to you!

-Amy

 

[ChrystalPaths]

I have to ask... everyone tells me to open my ears and listen to people who have been doing this longer than me. Why can't people read what I say through my years of experience and education? I have nearly 20x the reproductive learning compared to your out-of-school veterinarian. I TAUGHT vets and vet students.

Presentation!!!! Attitude!!! The sheer superiority complex and refusal to even consider for a moment that you might not know everything there is to know about everything out there. I am sure you have a lot to contribute, but your know-it-all attitude and presentation discredits the actual information. Nuf' said.

-Amy

Amy, You said exactly what several "empathically feel" but didn't say. No offense was ever intended to anyone here but that "over-riding feeling" influences responses. I'm done now but thanks for expressing simply what was felt.

:

Had one more thought Nathan, perhaps if you presented your credentials..professor, DVM, whatever, we would really love to know more about you as you really haven't shared much about who Nathan is and what he does. Now you don't have to by any means, but most of us are pretty familiar with each other and so we listen to or not depending. Just a thought...

 

[backwoodsnanny]

I have read with interest this thread and others where Nathan has posted and Nathan no one wants to take anything away from what you know BUT that said it is NOT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY BUT THE WAY IN WHICH YOU SAY IT. You have a way of saying things that makes it seem you are talking down to the members of this board and it rubs people the wrong way and once they read to that point they discredit whatever else you may say because you have come across as not valuing what others have said who have had years of horse experience. You have said you enjoy learning things you might not know from experienced horse owners and I m sure they would enjoy learning from you as well if you could temper the way in which you present things. If you dont understand what I am saying PM me and Ill see if I can clarify for you. I believe you when you say you have years of reproductive education behind you and that you could be a valuable asset to this board and to many discussions but what good is it if no one will read what you have to say because of the WAY you say it?????

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Nathan Luszcz

Breeding Manager, Alliance Stud, Simpsonville KY

Owner of Aztec Stables, LLC, Simpsonville KY

BS Animal Sciences: Equine Science, UNH 2004

Once I defend my thesis, MS Equine Reproductive Physiology, Colorado State University

 

[kaykay]

Nathan

sometimes its not what you say but how you say it. Also I think some of the conflict comes in because this is a miniature horse forum not a standabred forum etc. Some of the things that apply in big horse breeds do not apply to miniatures. Every vet I have worked with in 2 diff states agrees with that statement. Some things are the same and some are absolutely not.

Some of the people on this forum have 20 plus years experience breeding miniatures so yes I take their experience and advice on the same level I would a veternarians

I did look at Alliance studs website and it doesnt list you as being on staff. I hope your not offended but Im Just curious why your not listed?

ALLIANCE STUD STAFF

# Danette Musselman, Manager/Trainer

# Dr. Scott Bennett, DVM

# Ray Garcia, Assistant Trainer

# Laura Cerven, Broodmare Manager

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Neither Ray nor Laura is working with us anymore. I guess its time to update the website!

 

[Enchantress]

Wow I think this is the most responses any of my posts has gotten. Woohoo! I'm moving up in the world! :bgrin

OK back to my original post, the mare is not mine, the stallion is. I was told by the mare owner she had wanted to breed her at some point, but was currently being used as a performance horse. The mare kept showing colic-like symptoms. Upon examination there were the beginnings of cysts on the ovaries. The word was that two vets suggested breeding the mare asap as it might help prevent more cysts or something..I'm not even sure.

Basically if the only drawback was that the mare might not become in foal, that's an acceptable risk for me. If it will cause her discomfort which would most likely cause my stallion discomfort

: then it's not worth it.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

That doesn't make sense to me... If you have the option, I'd definately ask the vets these questions:

What made them think cysts? What did they look like? Why were they causing colic-like symptoms? Why would breeding make them go away?

I haven't seen them, nor looked at the mare, or anything... but it seems to me like they may be PAF's or granulosa cell tumors... But that really raises questions to me.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Nathan, I just want to say thank you for sharing your knowledge. Any person who has the education you have certainly knows something and no person should be put down for sharing the knowledge that has cost you and yet giving it to us free. Not everyone does that, even here on this forum. I always feel that if I don't like the information someone is giving, the best thing to do is just not retain it but I am here in this world to learn and I so appreciate the sharing of knowledge. Also, I don't expect everyone to say things in the same way simply because we are not all the same and I wish people understood that. As long as someone is giving information in a sincere, honest fashion, without intentionally putting anyone down, I think the information should be considered. The criticism you have received may have been meant to be constructive but it seems more than that to me. Some people just do not like the highly educated person sharing what they know. That is okay, ....it takes all kinds. I think you must be a very strong person, along with being well educated to even tolerate some comments you get. I hope you keep on sharing your knowledge and the rest of us can just learn to either accept it and maybe learn something or we can ignore it.

: Again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I would bet you really enjoy sharing it and that is being generous. Mary

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Mary that was very nicely put!

I too would like to say thank you to Nathan for sharing his knowledge and hope that he will continue to post here on the forum.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

This thread has gone soooo far off topic--sorry Enchantress!

There are a LOT of well educated people on this board that are very well respected. None of them spout off their credentials in every single post. Those that are kind enough to share their knowledge (be it through education, experience or both) are what make this board work. Nathan is not being trashed here--he asked a question and was given constructive criticism by people who do not mean any ill will. Again, the fact that Nathan's sharing is very much appreciated. However, a lot of the intent is lost in speaking down and spouting off credential in nearly every post. We have very experienced and wonderful vets here that don't speak to others like that! I know of one person here who has a PhD and works at a top vet school...she shares knowledge but you would never be made to feel inferior by her and she would never use her credentials like that. Anyway...presentation here, presentation. We all have had to step back when we said things that didn't come out right--I know I have!! This isn't a case of anyone being mean though--all of the people that spoke up are very mild and kind people...and some of them you might be shocked at how well educated.

: We really are one big family and we all have our place here and we all have something valuable to contribute. Anyway...moving on.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think this is a terrific example of how people see things differently and how friends often stick up for friends just for the sake of a friend. If you would have stopped and read what was said you would see that Dimimore more or less thought Nathan should tell of his creditials and yet you state he "spouts off his creditials" Dimimore said, " Had one more thought Nathan, perhaps if you presented your credentials..professor, DVM, whatever, we would really love to know more about you as you really haven't shared much about who Nathan is and what he does. "Seems like this is a darned if he does and darned if he doesn't situation. Just a thought and still hope everyone shares their knowledge and we can still sort through it and decide if it is for us or not for us. Mary

This thread has gone soooo far off topic--sorry Enchantress!

There are a LOT of well educated people on this board that are very well respected. None of them spout off their credentials in every single post. Those that are kind enough to share their knowledge (be it through education, experience or both) are what make this board work. Nathan is not being trashed here--he asked a question and was given constructive criticism by people who do not mean any ill will. Again, the fact that Nathan's sharing is very much appreciated. However, a lot of the intent is lost in speaking down and spouting off credential in nearly every post. We have very experienced and wonderful vets here that don't speak to others like that! I know of one person here who has a PhD and works at a top vet school...she shares knowledge but you would never be made to feel inferior by her and she would never use her credentials like that. Anyway...presentation here, presentation. We all have had to step back when we said things that didn't come out right--I know I have!! This isn't a case of anyone being mean though--all of the people that spoke up are very mild and kind people...and some of them you might be shocked at how well educated.

: We really are one big family and we all have our place here and we all have something valuable to contribute. Anyway...moving on.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

Buckskin gal...I made by own comments and dimimore made hers. If we were buddies playing the clique game do you think that would have been the case? sigh. I give up. You are right...we are all a bunch of stick-together snobs who are trying to be mean and snotty and can't stand anyone with an education, therefore purposely pick on anyone that has one. Feel better? Yes--NOW I am being a snot--there is a difference. :no:

 

[Sue_C.]

You are right...we are all a bunch of stick-together snobs who are trying to be mean and snotty and can't stand anyone with an education, therefore purposely pick on anyone that has one. Feel better? Yes--NOW I am being a snot--there is a difference.

Whoa-baby!! I have been reading and wasn't going to post, but this certainly caught my attention, as I am sure...it has everyone elses. I feel this is a bit uncalled for, and a unreasonably mean rebuttal on the only "pro" posts here...kind of unfair, if you ask me. (I know...you didn't...but i'm telling you anyways.)

The truth is, he was ASKED to give his creditials, so he did...then you slammed him for doing it...

: I am not taking sides here, on "who is right or wrong", simply stating that I don't think there is any reason to get so cranky here. We are all here for the good of learning, and friendship. Please don't let our "mare-staring-spring-crankys" get in the way of that.

If we don't like a post, or poster...we can simply scroll down and ignore it, as you certainly may with this one.

:

 

[Minimor]

Hm, I have to say I have never noticed that Nathan spouts off his credentials in every post. He's mentioned his place of work as it relates to some of his answers at different times, but spouting off his credentials every post? No, I'd say not. I haven't even noticed him talking down. I think he's assured in what he knows.

I do see that there are plenty of others on this board who will argue things they really don't know about. Having and sharing opinions are one thing, but opinions are not necessarily knowledge. Sometimes when people argue about something they really aren't educated on, they simply come out making themselves look very silly. Not pointing a finger at anyone here on this thread, just saying that is something for everyone to keep in mind before they start spouting off on some topics!

 

[Buckskin gal]

So sorry I hit a sore spot and you missed the point to what I said.

: Mary

Buckskin gal...I made by own comments and dimimore made hers. If we were buddies playing the clique game do you think that would have been the case? sigh. I give up. You are right...we are all a bunch of stick-together snobs who are trying to be mean and snotty and can't stand anyone with an education, therefore purposely pick on anyone that has one. Feel better? Yes--NOW I am being a snot--there is a difference. :no: