breeding question

[cdailey]

Question for you experienced breeders. I have a mini mare that I bred last year. She had a beautiful foal this year. I bred her back in June, took her back to the stallion July and August and she was not interested. (I own the stallion, too). Decided now that the babies are weaned I'd put both mares outside with the stallion during the day. Last night I put them out and he bred her. My question. Do mares accept a stallion even if they are bred? Or is it more likely she was either never in foal or lost the foal. I don't know now if I should expect a May foal or an August foal. Any comments?

 

[Miniv]

It's always possible that she slipped but I've also noticed some of our mares acting a little funky lately too and I suspect it's the weather.

Of course the best way to find out for sure right away is to have her ultra-sounded. (I don't really like palpations that much.) Otherwise, wait til Spring and watch her.

MA

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Some mares will. I wouldn't recommend turning bred mares out with a stallion for a variety of reasons, one of which is them not getting along and one of which is them getting along too much.

Its easy for a stallion to run a more timid mare who won't stand up for herself until she aborts. Its also not unheard of for a pregnant mare to stand for a persistant stallion. Just be aware that with big horses, a stallion ejaculates around 35mph, and can easily CAUSE an abortion by forcing that semen into her uterous. I'd imagine the same would be similar with a miniature stallion and mare.

 

[Joyce]

Yes, some mares will let the stallion breed that all along in their pregnancy so you can't go by that. I owned one mare that let a stallion breed her the day before she foaled.

 

[Seashells]

Once, I had a mare that bred May, June, July, and her foal arrived according to the May breeding dates! (I expected she took in the July breeding, but I was wrong... She sure fooled me.)

 

[JWC sr.]

Yes we have a couple of mares that are that way, but it is rare. We normally do not put mares back in with a stallion till they have been vet checked in foal at least three months. They seem not to be as fragile after that stage.

One side note though we do run a few pregnant mares with each our stallions, they need the inter-action with other horses to stay in a healthy state of mind in our opinion. They are after all herd animals and really enjoy the inter-action when possible. All of our boys are gentle and we will not tolerate a mean or aggressive stallion picking on his mares.

:saludando:

 

[HGFarm]

I am with John in that the stallion can run with his mares when they are bred. He knows when they give him 'the Look' that he is not to utter a peep at them! If the stallion were not raised this way, or extremely aggressive, I would think twice about it, but not when they are well behaved. They need the social atmosphere of the herd and they seem MUCH better behaved.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Absolutely don't let a stallion breed a bred mare! If ANY semen gets through the cervix, placentitis will set in. And if it doesn't, the actual act of breeding will cause the mare to release prostoglandins and oxytocin, two agents which can cause abortions. You might "get away" with it, but you are taking a huge, huge risk.

 

[JWC sr.]

Nathan,

it is not a matter of getting away with it. The conditions you mention are indeed possibilities. But the mental health of your stallion is also important to the overall health of the herd. Our stallions are never pastured without at least several mares except for very short times. The risk of the conditions you mentioned are far outweighed by the resulting behaviorable problems that can be manifested in a non-socialized stallion in our opinion. For years big horse people have run aged geldings with breeding stallions to give them manners and to socilize them. In our case the mares actually keep the mini stallions in line and teach them acceptable behaviour. This makes them much easier to handle and deal with on a daily baiss.

Is it desirable to not let a stallion breed a mare that is foal, of course it is. But most mares will not allow it and the stallions learn not to even try, which further minimizes the chance of it happening in most cases.

My 2 1/2 cents anyway.

:saludando:

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Socialization for stallions is a vital part to their health. NOTHING in that statement says they have to be turned out with pregnant mares

Open mares, geldings, and in rare situations other stallions can all be very healthy for a stallion. In many situations the stallion's mental health is addressed by situating them NEXT to a pasture of mares, where they can see and talk to them but not actually be in contact. That's a very modern and acceptable way to house stallions, the method highly recommended by just about all the people I know who study stallions and their behavior. Both my boys are housed that way, and they are very sane. The risks outweigh the benifits in my mind, especially when you depend on those foals for income, as well as the value of the mares. Placentitis and abortions can threaten the lives of a healthy mare. Not worth it in my opinion with all the other very good methods of managing stallions.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It is far more likely that you just missed her coming into heat.

Mares cycle every 21 days, not every month and it is very easy to miss the dates as some mares can be into and out of heat in 24 hours!!!

I would say the chances of her being in foal are very slim- although, of course, she may well be now!!

I have a line of mares that come into normal season for the first three months of their pregnancy and would, if allowed to accept the stallion for these times.

But they smell different and I am almost as experienced at it as the stallion now!!

Generally speaking if a mare comes into heat she is not in foal- there are and will always be genuine exceptions, but they are quite rare and it is easier to presume the most likely.

For your own peace of mind I would have this mare tested before allowing her to be bred again- this is what I did with my original mare, until I had got the hang of it.

 

[HGFarm]

Most people I know, with big or small horses, pasture breed. I personally have never had an abortion, or problems, from allowing a stallion to run with the herd. My neighbors have been breeding large and small horses for 30 years as well. They have about 10 stallions. They run out year round... they have not had problems with this either, and all seem happy.

They are not seperated on the range, and speaking of which, one ranch we worked for range raised their full sized horses and they ran 'wild' all year. They had foals out of all the mares every year with no problems. The stallion was halter broke is all.

I am not saying it can't happen, but I have known folks all my life that bred horses the 'natural' way, with no problems. There are studies that say the conception rate is actually better that way.

 

[virginia]

I used to keep my stallions seperate, but they were always running the fence screeaming at each other or at the mares. Now I keep at least 2 or 3 mares in with the stallions year long and it has worked beautifully. I even put the mares with foals back in and the stallions seem to really enjoy the babies and show off for them. They are so much more relaxed and easier to handle.

Ginny StP

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Hi. I'm sure there are many people here who know way more than I do about this subject, but my personal experience is a bad one, so I want to share it so others can maybe avoid the heartbreak I had.

I had a mare that was believed to be about 90 days along in her pregnancy when she started showing signs of cycling. I thought she must have slipped the foal and surely wouldn't breed if she was still pregnant. So, I bred her ONCE to the same stallion as earlier and the very next morning she aborted what appeared to be a perfectly developing fetus. The experience was horrible for her and for me. I left her open for the rest of the year and it wasn't until July of this year that she'd allow the stallion to breed. Of course I had the vet out immediately when she aborted and she eventually recovered, but it was traumatic for all involved.

So, personally, I will NEVER breed a mare that I believe to already be bred. If I don't know for sure, I just won't do it. Just my experience, take it for what it's worth. Thanks.

 

[JWC sr.]

Pasture breeding is indeed a part of our program, we hand breed a few of the mares in order to be able to narrow the dates they will foal for different reasons. With that said and understanding the thoughts of the folks that keep the stallions separate from the other horses as far as the potencial for aborting etc. my thoughts are the following.

We will continue to run a few other horses in with our stallions 24/7 as I believe the social interaction between horses in a pasture together is much different than across a fence, or being stalled by themsleves and makes for a much happier and socialized adult stallion or any other horse for that matter. This in my opinion makes for a better stallion that is easy to handle and respects the normal pecking orders that we see within a horses mind and herd.

I intend to be the alpha animal in the stallion's group/herd. It makes it much easier to have him understand this when he is used to dealing with the same situation in his day to day life. Yes there are so-called new methods of dealing with a stallion and many of them work, but a truly socialized horse is a happier horse in the long run and has been for years and will be as long as we all keep horses.

:saludando:

 

[user 3234]

Is it common for a pregnant mare (not sure how far along, but further than 6 months) to blink at a stud and then when he shows interest to kick the @# out of him?

: It is almost like she is teasing him.