Breeding Question

[rabbitsfizz]

Actually species are not the same- a strong mating in dogs will be a weak one in , say, guinea pigs- you do have to watch that.

Sorry if we got our lines crossed- I have the same problems, especially late at night!!

:

Paint n Minis- it would depend entirely on the horses- basically, if they are good sound animals there would be no reason why not, if you have a reason to do it- that is the whole point, you NEVER, [SIZE=12pt]NEVER[/SIZE] do this sort of thing for the sake of convenience, you only ever do it to improve the breed.

That is the only possible reason for breeding in the first place.

It is why people who breed "to have a little foal" drive me nuts.

You breed to improve the breed, and to work towards a (hopefully) common goal.

No other justification.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The raping idea is incorrect; there is a very, very small population that has been shown to do that, but in general that is NOT something that happens. Mares are quite happy to defend themselves and can destroy a stallion if they are out of heat and he pushes his luck. That's a behavior that happens in some other, very well documented species, but not the horse

Not that it DOESN'T happen, but its not routine and not common.

 

[PaintNminis]

Thanks

I think both of my Colts awesome JMO thats way I Asked

This is my 3 month old Colt "Allure"

I am very excited to see how he will Turn out

I love his Neck

: and his

Overall Conformation

 

[Katiean]

In genetics class the saying was " Father to daughter. Mother to son. But, brother to sister should never be done." :bgrin This holds true in ALL species. However. I have seen some Brother sister breedings that were show stoppers. :bgrin . I might try it. However, the animals being bred would have to compliment each other. As I have said before, I look at the horses and then the pedigree. If the pedigree is close I weigh the options :bgrin

 

[PaintedPromiseRanch]

wow this was very interesting and informative. i do own a mare that had parents who were half-siblings through THEIR sire and she seems to be fine and has had several wonderful foals although i made sure their sires were totally unrelated...

however i would not deliberately do this for one simple reason and perhaps it's silly so putting on my flame suit now... personally i would NOT want to "mate" with MY father/brother/uncle/son/nephew or even half, so i would not do it to my animals. <slinking off to hide now LOL>

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The raping idea is actually totally factual.

I have seen it happen.

There is a territory of Mustangs and I am sorry I cannot remember which group it was but it is real, documented and as far as I know, unprecedented- I think I did either say or intimate that??

It is a distinct behaviour pattern??

Anyway it is seen in Lions all the time but I had never heard of it in horses, I shall see if I can find a link to the documentary- it was amazing..

Susan, Human genetics are different form Equine- it would actually be dangerous to breed that close for a Human- hence the term "kissing Cousins"

I know a couple who are first cousins who married and had children that are fine, but that is considered, usually, too close in humans.

Before roads opened up the countryside we had pockets- as I know you have- of people who inbred and were known to be "unsound"- the Black Country was well known as an area for this, where contact with the outside was virtually unknown and even brothers and sisters might be thrown together.

As said, this can cause immediate damage in Human Beings, but not in animals.

 

[Songcatcher]

Susan, Human genetics are different form Equine- it would actually be dangerous to breed that close for a Human- hence the term "kissing Cousins"

I know a couple who are first cousins who married and had children that are fine, but that is considered, usually, too close in humans.

Before roads opened up the countryside we had pockets- as I know you have- of people who inbred and were known to be "unsound"- the Black Country was well known as an area for this, where contact with the outside was virtually unknown and even brothers and sisters might be thrown together.

As said, this can cause immediate damage in Human Beings, but not in animals.

The history of European Royalty serves well as documentation of the dangers of cousins intermarrying.

I personally know some families in which cousins have married cousins. Some are normal and some :no: .

As mentioned, it is totally different in animals.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Actually, its the exact same

Its just more lucky in animals. Worst case, just destroy the animal and nobody knows the difference.

 

[anita]

Actually, its the exact same

Its just more lucky in animals. Worst case, just destroy the animal and nobody knows the difference.

Nathan you might be right

. Can it be that experienced breeder select better their stock? :bgrin

Anita

 

[Songcatcher]

Its just more lucky in animals.

Which means it is NOT the same. On some things we agree. On some things, we will never agree. This is one of the latter.

All that being said, I have not yet bred any closely related horses and have not intention of doing so anywhere in the near future. With smaller animals, I have done it often with no ill effects.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Luck is just that, luck. Random chance. There are so many genes and so many base pairs of DNA, it is a fluke that a mutation or a recessive gene combine to cause a problem. The chances of this are much much higher when breeding close relatives. It certainly has in the past, and will again, in both human and equine situations. But people generally frown on killing humans for genetic problems (I don't see why... seems like it would do the species good), whereas problems with animals are easy to push under the carpet and pretend they never existed. Therefore human problems are more noticable, and equine ones aren't, hence my comment on inbreeding vs linebreeding. There ARE lines of inbred horses out there, including Poco lines in QH's. Are they good? SURE!! But there are also a FAR higher than average number of "mistakes" out there, getting as serious as the horrific disease HERDA. It may only be 2%. But compared to the normal level of "mistakes" of, I don't know, 0.01%, that's a huge increase. So 98% of the time your horse will be fine, but do it enough times and you'll cause a pretty serious issue.

 

[RENMACMINIS]

HYPP is only linked to QH's and Paints who have the horse Impressive in their bloodline. All QH's who have that horse in their pedigree MUST be tested for HYPP if they are HYPP dbl positive THEY CAN NOT BE REGISTERED! However if it comes back negative or with only one positive and one negative they can be registered. I have an Impressive bred Paint mare.. she is a granddaughter of him. she is N/N for HYPP meaning she CAN NOT PASS that disease on to any of her offspring. I would not purchase or breed any paint or qh that was positive or only half positive for this disease.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Go here

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

they are having a discussion about it right now!!!

No Animal and Human genetics are certainly NOTY the same- for a start each species is different, as I said, matings that are strong in dogs are weak in horses.

Inbreeding in Humans is quite closely documented (The Victorians documented everything) and breeders to NOT breed in order to discard the ones that fail.

Dobes are NOTORIOUSLY inbred, yet I have yet to see someone who breeds a litter in order to intentionally or otherwise discard puppies- and believe me, within the world of breeders, we would KNOW if this was happening!!

AND we would "tell", trust me!!

So, that theory is incorrect.

Human inbreeding does not work, horse inbreeding can work, it is as simple as that as Humans and Horses are not the same species.