bucking

[Marsha Cassada]

A two year old is very young, so some allowance can be made for immaturity. But there are some horses who never seem to give up trying to evade work if it doesn't suit them. "Work" to a horse is anything except eating and sleeping. Some love petting and grooming and even tacking up and appear gentle and laid-back. But if asked to walk away from their pasture mates, lunge if they don't feel like it, go for a walk when they'd rather not--then they will try to evade. Some evade by stubborness, some by bolting, some by dangerous antics. Some resign themselves, and perhaps even appear to enjoy it.

My first miniature was the stubborn kind. I've had him 12 years and he is still stubborn. But we continue to work through it. He never bolts or acts dangerously, he just resists. It is his temperament, the way he is hard-wired.

If you are commited to this horse, then learning his temperament is very important. This will help your daughter know what training techniques work best for him.

If you are serious about having a horse and enjoying him, and THIS horse doesn't feel right, don't be afraid to find a different one. There are lots of hroses out there and though none are perfect, matching your young daughter to the right horse might be your goal. That is part of learning about hroses, too.

As you've noticed by now, for every question there are 100 different opinions!

She is a lucky daughter to have your support!

And I stick with my opinion that turn out has little or nothing to do with it. His behavior is a temperament/personality issue.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

But they are not asking him to "work" they are asking a teenage kid who has been shut in his room for two months to concentrate on what they are saying whilst, in all possibility, suffering from ADHD that has been caused by having been shut in his room for two months!!!!

There is NO way to actually tell what is causing this and whether or not he is being naughty, until you have allowed him t let off steam and settle down.....

 

[Eagle]

I am afraid I don't agree with keeping any horse even a mini without the correct facilities. Youngsters need freedom, exercise and above all friends. This should all happen freely in a pasture until they are atleast 3. If you keep a youngster alone and in a small pen he will never learn to be a horse. Also I agree with Marty about a child leading a horse near cars, that is just an accident waiting to happen

Try and keep in a safe area and if necessary hold the horse yourself with a second lead rope on the other side making sure you both hold the rope close enough to the horses head so that he can't spin round.

 

[Scooter]

Seems like some of you only know how to be kind to horses...

This girl is doing the best she can and says she is trying to organise use of a neighbour's pasture. Give her a chance!

Lots of very, very good advice being given here but is there any need to treat the poor girl like an animal abuser? She loves that wee horse! Why do you think she is on here looking for advice? This is a learning process for those of us who are new to horses...

 

[Eagle]

I apologise if I came over rude, I asure you it wasn't my intention. I don't live in USA and very often here people buy minis cos they are cute and don't think about the horses needs.

My opinion was not meant to upset anyone I was just stating how I feel.

Sorry

 

[Rhondaalaska]

Some times some of us just don't have the acarage that others do. Most big horses don't have turn outs in the stables .

Those of us with small spaces do the best we can. We have to make the effort to exercise our little ones since we can't just put them

In a pasture and say there you go.

Rocksticksfeather you are doing great,

If you can use your neighbors place that is great.

Other wise do what you can.

I agree that for now till he is trained a bit more

That you may need the two lead ropes,

One for each of you.

Just my take on this.

 

[AngC]

I'm probably a total dummie when it comes to horse handling. But I can observe mine and try to learn. ....and comment.

When the weather's funky, I think they must have a barometer tucked away somewhere because it really affects their behavior. I don't even try to work with them at such times.

I don't know the size of your horse nor the size of your daughter. If I consider our mare (who came to us with little handling) she is about 300 lbs. I weigh about 100 lb. So right off the bat her mass is 3 times greater. I'm betting she has way better muscle tone than I do. And on one day, the UPS truck can drive by and she'll ignore it; the next day the same UPS truck can drive by causing her world to end and she'll have a freak fit. I wouldn't allow a 10 year old child near her for fear of lawsuits.

Her baby, whom we've handled since birth, has less mass but still probably out muscles me. I only take her out of the fence confines for short periods and always with a helper. On the wrong day, that UPS truck (or whatever) could spook her too. She is the sweetest little horse and is very adaptable; we are working accustoming her to more and more unusual situations, but I envision the process taking several year vice a couple months.

 

[Rockysticksfeatherfarm]

I really do appreciate those trying to help me within my means and what I have. Every time I post I do with much hesitance wondering how much lecturing I will get. Everyone starts somewhere and I feel we have provided a nice loving home for him. I consult with Tony from Little America every week with questions. I have found in the horse realm it's really hard to seek advice, either someone is going to be all gloom and doom like they are the only ones that are capable of handling horses and you never will be. Or you get someone who would really like to help.... This makes me very shy of asking anyone. From now on maybe I will just try to find information myself without directly asking, I'm to old and have to much responsibility to be spoken to as if I where a child. This is my last post here, I don't need the stress. Animal husbandry is not new to me by any means and I will figure things out from here on out. I REALLY do appreciate those that where kind but unfortunately you seem to few here on this board. Good luck to everyone with their minis.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

I am so sorry to hear this. Rockystick feather.

Don't give up you are doing great.

You love your little one and you are working with him.

I would love to hear from you. And I am sorry that some were so harsh.

 

[disneyhorse]

Sorry you feel this way! It's very hard sometimes to have a conversation on forum threads and we can't see the whole picture of a situation, just what you tell us.

I have to side with others, you don't have a great setup for a horse if the information given is true (two year old horse you have owned since January that does not get turned out but us hand walked for two miles every other day).

Horses DO need turnout an EXERCISE for their physical and mental health.

I am not a person who believes that horses should live in pasture... I live in a city and my horse lives in a box stall. Board is very expensive but I would never choose a facility that did not have somewhere to turn out or exercise my horse, or access to a public arena within walking or trailering distance. My horse gets free lunged at the trot/canter for 20 minutes daily and I feel like that is just barely adequate. A horse that is stalled, and exercised two hours a day is still standing for 22 hours the rest if the day.

I can't explore options for you, if you can lunge your horse daily on a line in a field, or rent access to someone's arena nearby, or trailer your horse daily to a public riding arena or pay someone to come work your horse... Just because someone loves an animal doesn't mean they are doing what's best for the animal.

No one is trying to be mean or accusatory towards you, they simply are trying to help out the horse with the information that is given.

Can you take the horse with you to Little America with you? I'd imagine they've got more space. Horses need space, and that's why people like me tend to pay hundreds of dollars a month to keep one in a little stall.

Good luck to you.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am sorry that you feel the best option is to walk away form this board, but basically, you asked for help and, as has been said, if the information given is correct, it is not actually possible to help you. We have offered options, but you do not seem to be interested in accepting that some of the responsibility for what is happening is actually yours. As soon as someone comes on here suggesting this, as Eagle did, they get sideswiped by someone who seems to think that love is all you need. If you are experienced as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, then you know this is not true. We cannot always have exactly what we want, just because we want it, whatever anyone on this board might think, and turnout of some kind, as well as company of their own species, is absolutely essential to the general well being of a horse. I am not at all convinced that loving a horse is essential, so long as it is properly and well looked after! I don't actually think a lot of the time they care, one way or another. My mares that live out would be just as happy not to see me, so long as they were well fed., They have one another, they have pasture and they have freedom. Humans are not essential to their well being and neither is being loved. Once you remove the pasture or the company or the turnout an animal becomes far more reliant on it's keeper, and consequently it forms a much stronger bond with them, but this is caused by the artificial situation and the love the person may feel for the animal does not replace, as far as the animal is concerned, any of it's needs. Horses were born to run, even the fat and lazy ones, and removing that possibility, especially with a very young animal, is, unfortunately, going to lead to the kind of problems now being experienced. I feel we would be lacking as information givers if we did not point this out.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am sorry that you feel the best option is to walk away from this board, but basically, you asked for help and, as has been said, if the information given is correct, it is not actually possible to help you. We have offered options, but you do not seem to be interested in accepting that some of the responsibility for what is happening is actually yours. As soon as someone comes on here suggesting this, as Eagle did, they get sideswiped by someone who seems to think that love is all you need. If you are experienced as you say, and I have no reason to doubt you, then you know this is not true. We cannot always have exactly what we want, just because we want it, whatever anyone on this board might think, and turnout of some kind, as well as company of their own species, is absolutely essential to the general well being of a horse. I am not at all convinced that loving a horse is essential, so long as it is properly and well looked after! I don't actually think a lot of the time they care, one way or another. My mares that live out would be just as happy not to see me, so long as they were well fed., They have one another, they have pasture and they have freedom. Humans are not essential to their well being and neither is being loved. Once you remove the pasture or the company or the turnout an animal becomes far more reliant on it's keeper, and consequently it forms a much stronger bond with them, but this is caused by the artificial situation and the love the person may feel for the animal does not replace, as far as the animal is concerned, any of it's needs. Horses were born to run, even the fat and lazy ones, and removing that possibility, especially with a very young animal, is, unfortunately, going to lead to the kind of problems now being experienced. I feel we would be lacking as information givers if we did not point this out.

 

[shorthorsemom]

sheesh.

I posted once and then deleted my post except for a few words because I thought it was getting a bit negative but I didn't want to abandon the original poster so I have decided to jump into the fire again. Will probably delete these words again if I draw too much fire from the forum as I did with my first post, anyway... for what it is worth.

I don't agree that you have to have acres of space to train and teach manners. I do know that even with limited space you can provide love and good nutrition and teach a horse respect and provide a loving and happy home. I have done it. I find it actually easier to get respect and provide manners training in a smaller area and then as I am able to get more control, I give more and more freedom as I am able to handle without risk of injury. My trainer agrees with me and she has been there and done that and has many years experience with minis and driving horses.

That said. Nothing wrong with putting a second lead rope on for training your baby. I would not let my kids handle my minis until I had established proper leading manners. Since they wanted to participate, we went with the two lead rope leading, one on either side. When I knew I was over my head at one point, I brought in a trainer to help me get over the training hump and she showed me (in a very small dry lot paddock) how to get control of my unruly baby mini. I do know what it is like to try to lead him outside of the fence and to be suddenly looking at his butt as he was play kicking back at me, bucking and rearing trying to get free. Happens in the blink of an eye. We kept him in a smaller fenced in area and worked every day on manners and spook training. My turnouts are very small and I like it that way. I have lived through founder twice. That said, as I got more training under my belt and felt I could control my boy, the sky was the limit. Miles and miles on our feet outside of the small space, we ground drive and lead everywhere and even jog together. I provide the more ideal outside exercise and we bond. As a related story, many years ago I had two dobermans in a one bedroom apartment. Not ideal, no way to turn the dog out in a fenced in yard, leash walking only. I took those two dogs every day on walks and runs on farms and at the parks. They were showed in obedience and had impeccable manners, they were tired when we got home and lazed around the apartment. There are those that felt that those dogs should have had a big fenced in yard. Me being a loving owner provided what was missing and there was one area on the local farm that had a fenced in place where I could turn out and let them run. Had somebody told me I shouldn't own dogs if I couldn't provide a big fenced in yard would have been insulting in the least. Folks can provide excellent care and a great home in less than ideal situations. That poster loves her kid and her mini. A two year old mini, even a gelding can be a handful for sure. Lets brainstorm some ideas without just saying "your horse is young, you need more space to run"... Kind of like telling me, you are fat, don't eat, but not showing me how to diet. (don't know why that just popped in my brain) time to visit the diet string on the forum I guess. Anyway, I can try to spell out some of the exercises my trainer told me to do with my unruly boy if you are still on here and haven't lost all hope.

 

[Scooter]

Dear Rabbitfizz

I did not mean that love is all a horse needs - how ridiculous!

My point was that it is unfair to treat this girl like an animal abuser when she loves her horse and has come on here looking for advice and actually said she would be talking to her neighbour about getting access to pasture.

And despite the fact that you rightly say that horses can manage just fine without our love, it is very evident that you love your horses

At least that's the way I prefer to interpret your extreme indignation on their behalf.

I'd like to meet you some day - I suspect your bark is worse than your bite

 

[shorthorsemom]

One thing I do love about this forum is that we get all levels of opinion. To me even if I don't always agree or like what is said, I do respect folks for their HONEST opinion. We all have the right to agree to disagree in the end.

We also have the right to bow out of a string if we don't like the direction it is heading. But to throw away the whole forum and the valuable information we all get here, would be sad. With out the opinions on both ends of the scale we would have no middle. It takes some strong opinion sometimes to shake somebody into a minor shift. So even if somebody tells me I am doing something completely wrong, and I get offended, you can bet I try to self evaluate to see why I drew that opinion anyway.

For what it is worth folks, I love all of you, strong opinions, easy opinions, no opinions and all! (no opinions being you lurkers)

Recently I was whining and being sad because we got robbed. Bought my kids a 4 wheeler with the last bit of money I got from losing my job and somebody stole it before my kids got to ride it. Then in chatting with a friend, he had cashed in a CD to pay some bills and on the way home his wife made a stop and somebody stole that 3000$ out of his car. He really needed that money and somebody stole it. Then my $900 10 year old used stolen 4 wheeler problem didn't seem like such a big deal in comparison. I guess it put things in perspective a bit. I gotta step back more often and try to put myself in somebody elses shoes more often and this forum is very good at reminding me to think about more things from a different perspective. Thank you all for that..

 

[AngC]

I really do appreciate those trying to help me within my means and what I have. Every time I post I do with much hesitance wondering how much lecturing I will get. Everyone starts somewhere and I feel we have provided a nice loving home for him. I consult with Tony from Little America every week with questions. I have found in the horse realm it's really hard to seek advice, either someone is going to be all gloom and doom like they are the only ones that are capable of handling horses and you never will be. Or you get someone who would really like to help.... This makes me very shy of asking anyone. From now on maybe I will just try to find information myself without directly asking, I'm to old and have to much responsibility to be spoken to as if I where a child. This is my last post here, I don't need the stress. Animal husbandry is not new to me by any means and I will figure things out from here on out. I REALLY do appreciate those that where kind but unfortunately you seem to few here on this board. Good luck to everyone with their minis.

oh, come on really? Perhaps someone said something you didn't want to hear? ....oh well that's the internet.

Besides after asking your question you're going to get all peevish and leave. Good luck on the internet, sifting through all the crap you find repeated over and over and over again.

There were some folks here (not me) that took the time to respond to you that I would consider to have reputable opinions. For example, that RabbitFizzer over in the UK; right off the bat she's been posting here so long she has like 16000 posts; golly gee wolly, maybe she knows a thing or two about horsies. ...maybe not. But of all the junk I find on the internet, at least, this forum is a resource I can sift through more easily to find opinions that might make sense.

I just kind of wonder if you're not enthralled with the idea of turning your child loose with a horse that could potentially be a danger to her.

 

[shorthorsemom]

nevermind. deleted comment. I took the comment about her child personally and it made me cry and it wasn't even directed to me so I deleted what I wrote as a gut response initially, sorry. It would hurt me greatly if somebody said something about my love of my children based on a question I posted on a forum. Would be good to remember there are all levels of experience with horses on this forum. I teach dog obedience. Am working with a nice couple of folks right now with their puppy. These folks are not new dog owners, but lack current knowledge of dog training as they have not trained any puppy in over 15 years. They love their puppy like the child they do not have, but have no knowledge of any level of puppy raising and I am patiently explaining that you do not rub the puppys nose in poop or pee to train it not to go potty in the house and you do not let puppy mug old dog and wack the puppy with news paper for biting. They are not horrible people, they just do not know any better and that is what I am helping them for. Comments they make about their training ideas make me shudder on occasion and I have to constantly remind myself that they do not know what they are doing. I am training the owners and the puppy daily but I do not yell at them, just show them something that works better. I do this for free. Showing them how their unruly puppy can in 3 private lessons be crate trained, 100% potty trained, and now walks on a lead like a balloon on a string and is now learning to retrieve and give a toy. Now I have their attention. Puppy was not the "bad puppy", but was instead very intellegent and learns faster than average. Teaching these folks and their puppy for free when I know cannot afford obedience training for their puppy is kind of like posting to this forum here. Lots of free experienced information here. I look at the extended postings of experienced horse owners here and consider the amount of time they have spend out of their day to answer and give examples and even attach photos . AMAZING how cool it is to read all the beautiful constructive and educational postings given for FREE. It is nothing short of random acts of kindness. You cannot look at this forum and not be in awe of the giving of time and energy from kind folks that wish to reach out to others and help.

By the way, these folks with the puppy should never have consider a tiny puppy given their personal circumstances. No need to remind them of that, puppy has already humbled them plenty. Husband has stage 4 liver failure, and wife has a badly injured foot with nerve pain off the charts. They should never have considered a 3 month labrador retriever puppy. Husband wanted puppy to keep wife company when he passes away. Wife cannot walk more than a few steps without pain. I could berate them for getting this puppy in the first place, but my path instead is to train the puppy daily, share my 200 acres to romp and train on, and allow the puppy to learn about other dogs by playing with my 6 dogs. What they get is a sleepy well mannered trained puppy every night that they can stroke and love and marvel at how wonderful he is. I am happy to share this puppy in my life as I have several very senior doggies and miss puppy breath and goober goof ball puppies that pick up everything and try to eat it. cheers folks, have a great day and hug your kids and hug somebody in writing on this forum too, you never know who you might be saving, its worth it.

 

[MountainWoman]

Jumping into this thread late but I wondered if there are any mini people near you and you could arrange for a play date for your boy (with other geldings). My boys when turned out are so rambunctious with each other and have the best time being boys. Their mutual play time also allows me to work with them when they are a little worn out.

Could you find a facility with an indoor ring and do some turn out in an indoor ring?

One thing that really bothers horses is a change in weather. Wind can be especially troubling and then you had the added problem of someone spinning out and spooking your already spooked boy.

The people who suggested you lunge him first are giving you good advice as well and then manners training. There are many different trainers and you could check into their books, cds, etc. Julie Goodnight is one of my favorites. Also, can you find someone who is experienced with horses to come work with you and then your daughter for a couple of lessons to get you back on track?

Also you might want to look into dietary causes too - is he getting a lot of grain? Could be he's just getting too much fuel for his situation.

Hang in there and don't be afraid to ask for help.

 

[Scooter]

nevermind. deleted comment. I took the comment about her child personally and it made me cry and it wasn't even directed to me so I deleted what I wrote as a gut response initially, sorry. It would hurt me greatly if somebody said something about my love of my children based on a question I posted on a forum. Would be good to remember there are all levels of experience with horses on this forum. I teach dog obedience. Am working with a nice couple of folks right now with their puppy. These folks are not new dog owners, but lack current knowledge of dog training as they have not trained any puppy in over 15 years. They love their puppy like the child they do not have, but have no knowledge of any level of puppy raising and I am patiently explaining that you do not rub the puppys nose in poop or pee to train it not to go potty in the house and you do not let puppy mug old dog and wack the puppy with news paper for biting. They are not horrible people, they just do not know any better and that is what I am helping them for. Comments they make about their training ideas make me shudder on occasion and I have to constantly remind myself that they do not know what they are doing. I am training the owners and the puppy daily but I do not yell at them, just show them something that works better. I do this for free. Showing them how their unruly puppy can in 3 private lessons be crate trained, 100% potty trained, and now walks on a lead like a balloon on a string and is now learning to retrieve and give a toy. Now I have their attention. Puppy was not the "bad puppy", but was instead very intellegent and learns faster than average. Teaching these folks and their puppy for free when I know cannot afford obedience training for their puppy is kind of like posting to this forum here. Lots of free experienced information here. I look at the extended postings of experienced horse owners here and consider the amount of time they have spend out of their day to answer and give examples and even attach photos . AMAZING how cool it is to read all the beautiful constructive and educational postings given for FREE. It is nothing short of random acts of kindness. You cannot look at this forum and not be in awe of the giving of time and energy from kind folks that wish to reach out to others and help.

By the way, these folks with the puppy should never have consider a tiny puppy given their personal circumstances. No need to remind them of that, puppy has already humbled them plenty. Husband has stage 4 liver failure, and wife has a badly injured foot with nerve pain off the charts. They should never have considered a 3 month labrador retriever puppy. Husband wanted puppy to keep wife company when he passes away. Wife cannot walk more than a few steps without pain. I could berate them for getting this puppy in the first place, but my path instead is to train the puppy daily, share my 200 acres to romp and train on, and allow the puppy to learn about other dogs by playing with my 6 dogs. What they get is a sleepy well mannered trained puppy every night that they can stroke and love and marvel at how wonderful he is. I am happy to share this puppy in my life as I have several very senior doggies and miss puppy breath and goober goof ball puppies that pick up everything and try to eat it. cheers folks, have a great day and hug your kids and hug somebody in writing on this forum too, you never know who you might be saving, its worth it.

Well, this has made ME cry... You reacted exactly the way I did. I'm new to horses like this girl and I have a little daughter about the same age as this girls daughter and I actually felt the pain like the comments were being directed at me. Hurts all the more when you genuinely want the very best for your horse and you're actively making changes based on the excellent advice we receive here - I have just travelled the length of Ireland to buy Scooter a wee friend (colt ready to be gelded) because members here have told me he shouldn't be on his own. I've adjusted what I was feeding him after getting advice here. I've learnt so much already...
I have the height of respect for the long time members of this Forum too and now I feel bad about the way I reacted because I don't want them to feel they are not valued - they are. But us newbies are not "bad people" we're learning as fast as we can...

 

[Minimor]

I am not sure what was really so hurtful to some. If you value your children you surely do not want them handling a horse that is too fresh. Yes, fresh or not a horse should have manners but the fact is--with a child on the other end of the lead it is so much safer to have the horse not so fresh. I can take out any one of my horses, even when they are jacked up on a strong grain ration and when they have had little exercise and they will behave and remember their manners--some of themight bounce alongside me and have trouble keeping their feet on the ground but they won't be bucking and kicking at me. There is no way I would let a child--any child, experienced or otherwise--handle the horse when it is feeling that good. It would be foolish for me to do so. It's bad for the child and bad for the horse. It is far easier to teach a young horse to be well mannered and well behaved if thr horse isn't too fresh--and from what I have read that is all anyone is saying. It would be too bad if someone's child were to be hurt just because the horse was fresher than he should have been when the child tried to take him out for a walk.

When I was a little kid my mom would let me ride any one of her horses, but you can bet that I didn't get to have first ride if the horse had been in the barn for a week and was getting its full grain ration. She wasn't that foolish! Not sure why it is rude or hurtful to pass on that information.