Buyer beware

[wpsellwood]

Just playing the devils advocate here, but maybe in that owners eyes he is correct. There are alot of people that dont know a good horse from a bad horse. Ive seen this big named horse advertised in the world magazine, straight on photo that toes out so bad ughhh I would never own him much less breed him. The people that own him breed him. Its a full page ad. So I guess, some people just dont see flaws like others do.

I've actually never gelded a horse because it wasn't correct (my geldings are correct)

Me too, I only geld the ones I like LOL!

 

[minie812]

Well this IS my two cents worth. I SAW the horse in question because I purchased a very nice mare-colt from Michele and he had just come to her farm. She is correct about the leg issues and she was out money and I do see her point in not sticking anymore money into a horse that was that bad. I would not have sunk another dime in him but sold him as she did (honestly stated his problem) put it in a contract his flaws and called it good. Some of us do not want to waste anymore money on (as Mona) put it someone elses crap! O.K. go ahead...bite MY head off! OH!

 

[horseplay]

Some are concerned about bettering the breed so I think gelding him would have been great but since you didn't do this I don't see how you can be upset with him being sold as a stallion or how he is being sold, you did it also. Everyone sees things differently, you may think it's a huge deal that he is not straight but others may not. As far a the seller not stating he has flaws maybe they don't think he does. It's too bad you didn't get something you liked when you bought him but it is out of your hands. You wanted to recover some of what you lost and didn't want to spend anymore on him so in my opinion you should leave it alone. JMO

 

[Bess Kelly]

Let's get to to idea of purchase........while I don't breed very many mares now (have many, nice mares, just don't breed! And nice correct stallions who get little

).....if you don't know your horse, know your breeder!!!

When I bought stallions I made it MY responsibility to see them in person, have a vet or a person who's eye I trusted totally, to see them -- or relied on a video that met MY criteria for replacement of visit, and/or had a guarantee of return for full refund "if" XYZ items exsisted.

When I sold, I expected to have the same hold true, if I was asked. There were persons who had vet checks, some not. My video was taken as if a judge were looking at this animal -- walk/trot forward and away (with tail UP & down), loose in a lunge venue, loose in a field, standing & walking from both sides, moved mane to both sides, head with & without halter, teeth, ears, eyes, hooves (up & down positions), genitalia and all that..........along with the stick measuring while watching and so on. Tried to make it just like they were live on the farm. Even squatted down to take video, not just standing!

My feeling is this -- if my animal is not up to par for their breeding, a buyer should have as much before them as necessary to make this determination. If it is not up to par for my own breeding, I won't buy. When I buy and just can NOT go in person, it is at a price that allows me to geld and sell.

Just as particular with my mares. In fact, I have had 2 mares purchased which I never bred after getting them home (although they had produced previously). One is still here, now 23 -- been fed and cared for at my farm for 15 years. Her body was tooo long for me. So, a babysitter she is! Shame we can't "geld" a mare, LOL -- the costs and issues with neutering them is not acceptable, so many get passed along & bred. The 2nd was sold to a known family, still there, a great pasture ornament! (Bad bite, hubby bid at auction of a great looking body and had not checked teeth!) I did not see either in prson before purchase, both were at auctions.......talk about buyer beware!....I almost never buy without "being" there -- see why?

People have VERY different ideas of what is/is not correct, pretty, nice, etc. This is where much of the issue will be, in an "opinion". And, as Becky has pointed out, some animals would not have issues if properly grown and cared for -- i.e. feeding, farrier, vet, etc. And injury can be an issue in a very few cases, which could affect "looks" and not genetics.

Buying and Selling is TOUGH!!

Homework on bloodlines that have known "issues" is needed. It is much harder for newbies.

 

[Marty]

I've had it stuck to me more than once too so here's my two cents

1. Do not buy a horse on professional pictures. The professional pictures can lie! And conceal and cover up a multitude of sins! You know the kind I mean where the horse is

just gleaming with gobs of make up and posed so amazing. Ask for "owner" pictures with no make up and several of them in different poses.

2. Get a video! Videos are great.

I bought Mountain Meadows Bey Pepito off a CD that Stacy sent me. Yes there were pics but it was the video that sold me. I wasn't even 2 mintues into it and I knew that was the right horse for me. It showed everything, up close and personal, in the barn and out etc. Could not have been more thorough. When he arrived and was unloaded, what I saw in the video was exactly what I bought. Except his personality is even more amazing.

 

[capall beag]

Everyone has a different idea of quality.

For some, color is everything.

BUT how can someone say a horse that toes out is straight???

That is a lie.

I hate when people lie.

Sell him as a colorful, stallion or whatever else BUT don't say he is straight if he is not!

I think if I know someone is LYING about something I will tell anyone who listens

If I think someone has a different view on something or different interpretaion of quality etc then I would think it impolite to get involved. Such as stocky, refined or flashy color vs mismarked, show quality vs pet quality etc These are open to interpretation.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

From my early experience, I sold a weanling colt who showed no signs of locked stifle at all. He never locked, no hitch in the gait, nothing. And being new to miniatures, I probably would not have recognized the conformation that might lead to it. The new owners kept him stalled, and one day called me to tell me he was badly locked, dragging both hind legs, and was not driving material! Well, of course I took him back and refunded their purchase $, but I was totally flabbergasted, it was like night and day! I gelded the colt and eventually found him a good pet home where the little girl adored him and sent us Christmas pictures forever. I think a reputable person would refund the money on a situation like that. But it is a buyer beware world, and if you are putting down good money on a horse, look at it from every angle and have a contract that states what the horse will be used for, and if it can not fulfill that use, then a refund is in order. Pre-purchase exams cost a little $, but sometimes are well worth it. Just my two cents!

 

[Bluewater Minis]

Yep, BUYER BEWARE! Watch out for crooked legs, undescended colts, dramatic difference in height, undisclosed reproductive or other health issues, 'handling' problems, etc.... Of all the horses we've purchased, I've only personally seen FOUR of them before closing the transaction. All of the others were purchased based on photos/videos. If I had good experiences, I had no hesitation being a repeat buyer. Yes, I've had some disappointments like many of you, and sadly I guess that is part of doing business...to learn whom to trust and whom to beware of when buying/selling. Nothing like buying a horse and finding out when they arrive (after that hefty shipping fee) that yes, their bite is correct but they have tooth absesses in dire need of attention, or that the horse has recently foundered, or is 4 inches taller than what was represented, or ... well, the list goes on. OH! On the other hand, we've purchased some horses and when they stepped off the trailer we were completely blown away as they looked soooo much better than we expected.

Like some of you, I've talked myself out of several sales because I'd rather point out 'flaws' or a horse's personality traits that may not make that particular horse the best fit for the prospective buyer. I'd rather keep them than have a buyer be disappointed and/or have my 'baby' in a home that's not the best fit for them...even if they're not the perfect specimen of a horse, there's an ideal situation for them somewhere. So, do your homework and make the best decision you can at the time with the information at hand.

 

[Whitestar]

I also think that if you felt that strongly, he should have been gelded. Sorry, but once you paid for him, he became your "crap" & not someone elses-(. I have a hard time calling a horse crap personally. Just because he may not have been breeding quality does not make him "crap".) He could have been gelded, gone on to become someones nice loveable pet. The buck has to stop someone. It has to stop with the person that seems to be more knowledgable. If you think the horse is not good enough for breeding, then geld it & take care of the problem. When you sell a cheap intack stallion especially one with "color" there is a very strong chance that that horse will end up in the hands of a trader or someone that is looking for a cheap color stallion ( and does not care about anything else). As shown on this site many times, there are many many people out there that believe in their right to breed "pet" quality horses because they say that not everyone can afford to pay for show quality when they want a horse ( not arguing a point, but mentioning that it has been a hot topic on this site many time)

As for staying in your name, the way to take care of that is to take the pictures necessary for transfer, & include the transfer in your selling price & then have the new owner sign the transfer when they pay for the horse & YOU mail it in. That takes care of that problem.

 

[disneyhorse]

I also think that if you felt that strongly, he should have been gelded. Sorry, but once you paid for him, he became your "crap" & not someone elses-(. I have a hard time calling a horse crap personally. Just because he may not have been breeding quality does not make him "crap".) He could have been gelded, gone on to become someones nice loveable pet. The buck has to stop someone. It has to stop with the person that seems to be more knowledgable. If you think the horse is not good enough for breeding, then geld it & take care of the problem. When you sell a cheap intack stallion especially one with "color" there is a very strong chance that that horse will end up in the hands of a trader or someone that is looking for a cheap color stallion ( and does not care about anything else). As shown on this site many times, there are many many people out there that believe in their right to breed "pet" quality horses because they say that not everyone can afford to pay for show quality when they want a horse ( not arguing a point, but mentioning that it has been a hot topic on this site many time)

As for staying in your name, the way to take care of that is to take the pictures necessary for transfer, & include the transfer in your selling price & then have the new owner sign the transfer when they pay for the horse & YOU mail it in. That takes care of that problem.

Whitestar, I agree with you 100%!

I have known several breeders who did the right, ethical thing by gelding stallions that were not "quality" at their loss. With animals, it's not about the money it's about the quality and ethics of it all. I mean, a horse is a money pit anyway. What's wrong with spending $200 and gelding the stallion because it's the right thing to do? I always look at a horse and think "It could drop dead tomorrow, so what's another $$$ into it or loss of $$$ on a sale?"

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Andrea

 

[SweetOpal]

I understand the frustration 100% I have been there, however I opted to geld the horse I had bought that was not what I thought. I paid $ 3,800 for a stallion, herd stallion, when I first started out, had him 4 months, started locking up BAD...had the vet out, we tried trimming what not, ended up having surgery, guess what folks, I knew I wasn't going to breed him, so I then had him gelded....Put another $ 1,500 into him for those 3 surgeries, and turned around and sold him for $ 1,600....Did I take a loss....you better believe it pocket wise and heart wise....I am much more careful now, and I pretty much geld everything now....if it isn't good enough for me to breed, then I honestly believe it isn't good enough for anyone to breed, oh well if I take a loss because it is JUST a GELDING....People need to start taking responsibility even if you were not the breeder...

 

[RJRMINIS]

I just got back on after reading through the posts, MOST of you are not understanding why I am upset.....It is not because he is being sold as a stallion, that is fine by me, he did not have the desired traits I want.....What is upsetting me in this........IS THE FACT someone I know that emailed on him had asked about his legs, bite, etc......and was told he IS CORRECT.....THAT IS THE PART THAT UPSETS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If someone wants him for breeding more power to them. I simply said I do not want to keep a stallion for my breeding that has an issue such as he did, HE WAS SOLD WITH HONESTY.......That is fine if someone wants to make money on him, fine if someone wants him for a stallion, but to flat out tell someone that the horse is correct, when it is very obvious by looking at him dead on he is not.....now if you want to breed something that toes out really bad, go for it, I am not someone to tell you that you can't do what you want.....what I might think is not quality might be something someone else would love. This stallion is very nice otherwise...........but to me it is important to be honest about flaws that are that obvious....it is not like he slightly toes.....people that have posted that have seen him in person know what I am talking about. It is not something I am making up.

I think sellers should be honest....I have sold many of my horses out of state, and I try to be as honest as I possibly can......but yes, someone can probably find flaws in something I find pretty nice too, everyone sees qualities different.....

I just think when something is very obvious.........it should be pointed out.

I have made my point now, so I will not be posting anymore. Thanks to those that are understanding, and realize what this post was about...........

 

[Margaret]

Well I dont know if this one has been added to the list, but there are some people out there claiming that they are selling true Champagne miniature horses and have no ICHR paperwork or DNA proof that they are indeed Champagne.

Today there is a DNA test that will confirm this as fact, and since Champagnes are so rare it is well worth it to ask the seller to show some proof , before believing it.


I hate to see honest people taken advantage of, so I just wanted to give the heads up on this one.

 

[Margaret]

Well I dont know if this has been added to the list, but there are some people out there claiming that they are selling true Champagne miniature horses, and have no ICHR paperwork or DNA proof that they are indeed Champagne.

Today there is a DNA test that will confirm this as fact, and since Champagnes are so rare it is well worth it to ask the seller to show some proof , before believing it.


I hate to see honest people taken advantage of, so I just wanted to give the heads up to all on this.