By what age should the testes have descended?

[Happy Valley]

Is this late? If so is this genetic? I am trying to decide whether to keep him intact anyway, and if this is a genetic flaw that would sway my decision toward gelding. I bought him as a prospective herd sire, but he has become a pet for my kids and I want him to stay sweet.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]My colt was coming 2 when his made their appearance. One came down that early spring of his two year old year and by his birthday in June they were both there. He had them as a weanling and they disapeared for a while![/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I've heard that sometimes they are down at birth, then disappear for a while, then reappear later on. All of my colts have had them at birth, and they have never "disappeared."

Do you know if your colt has ever had them both down?

 

[Happy Valley]

Do you know if your colt has ever had them both down?

No, I do not. He was four months old when we got him. We went and visited, but he was a little wild, so I didn't lay hands on him until we got him in October. I never thought to check that until I read something on here about it.

My colt was coming 2 when his made their appearance.

Is this normal?

Thanks so much for your input!

Stacye

 

[Black Magic]

Don't worry... just be patient. My vet told me when we brought home this eight mo. old stud colt that he would be crypt... ... so I feel bad, but as we also had his older half brother, I thought.. no big deal. So the next time the vet comes out, I said, I think he has one down now... (he was over one yr old at this time). So the vet says yes, he has one, but he's going to be mon orchad and only have one. The next time the vet comes.. (he's here every six mos), The vet feels the older brother and says... I'm sorry to tell you, he's mon orchad... but the good news is.. the other guy, (who he thought was crypt) now has both testicles!!! Well, make me crazy! The vet says, it just doesn't matter, unless you want to geld him. Of course, I just want ONE full mini out of the deal. He says they can both get a mare pregnant, it's just more expensive to geld a stallion, when you have to go into the abdomin to find the missing testicle. So now... the one Silver dapple is a two year old, and has both.. and his slightly older brother, well.. jury is still out on him. His one testicle sits right on top of the other one. So if you look, he looks like he's missing something, but if you feel... well.. they are both there.

I wouldn't worry.....

God Bless

Lynn W

(I wonder why they go hide like that??? )

 

[Happy Valley]

Don't worry... just be patient.

Not going to worry, thank you! You have eased my mind! I wonder why they are hiding, too!

Stacye

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I am trying to decide whether to keep him intact anyway, and if this is a genetic flaw that would sway my decision toward gelding.  I bought him as a prospective herd sire, but he has become a pet for my kids and I want him to stay sweet.

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There is a wide variety of opinions on this board on this particular subject. I personally won't buy a colt without knowing if he has them both. Are you feeling for them, or just looking for them? You can ask a vet to feel for them if you aren't sure.

Honestly, I would say geld him. You have admitted you have doubts. You can always buy another colt on down the road if you really need a stallion. Your kids would appreciate it!

I believe there are way too many mini colts left stallions, anyway. I wouldn't leave a colt a stallion without being 100% positive he is what a stallion should be. This is coming from someone who strongly believes in gelding, loves geldings, and I gelded the one mini colt we have had so far (we've been blessed with fillies!) before he was even weaned, and I have gelded many mature stallions. One of those mature stallions was 15 when I decided he needed to become a gelding--he's now in a great home as a driving horse.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Don't worry, he has lots of time. I feel minis drop a lot later than full size horses. Have had some go up and down a few times then at 2 stay down.

 

[Miniv]

The most common age for the testicles drop in minis seems to be is age two.

MA

 

[justaboutgeese]

You should PM Rabbitfitz for her opinion. We agree on the theory but she puts it better than I would.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Hallo Vic, here I am

If they are not there at birth, you are in HUGE trouble.

They HAVE to descend through the Inguinal Canal in order for the horse EVER to be intact.

That's it, it is veterinary fact, I don't really care whether you agree or not

BUT....a lot of foals suck them back up at weaning, and they stay there- you can manipulate them if you are very experienced and you do not mind the possibility of getting your head kicked in (were I thinking of buying such a colt it would be worth the risk)

ALL my colts have theirs back by one year old, IF they go away in the first place, which they rarely do.

Accepting Minis drop late, is IMO, perpetuating both the problem and the myth.

I would not use at stud any colt that had anything abnormal about it and I include problems with testicle descending as an abnormality.

In your case, you cannot geld him as he is not dropped.

I would definitely geld him as soon as he does as you do not need a stallion as much as your kids need a pet- horses with his temperament should be allowed to do the job they enjoy.

 

[Jill]

As most people have said, it is way too early to worry. I wouldn't say that it's normal for them to "not be there" until age two, but it is not unusual if that makes sense!

And, for what it is worth, unless you think your colt is National calibur, personally, I would geld him. I've gelded show stallions and am happy I did it in their cases. They have happier lives and are easier to manage (though they were always good boys).

These days, even amazing quality stallions are available for breeding with very affordable stud fees especially when you consider, you do not have to take care of that stallion and can benefit from his bragging rights w/o the time and expense it took to show him and raise him.

The only thing a gelding cannot do is breed, and how many mares would you really want to breed each year anyway?

 

[Happy Valley]

You have all put into words what has been running around in my head! I KNOW I really need to geld him, and hearing you all say it just sealed the deal! Thank you all for the advice!

I've made my own pros and cons list about keeping him a stud.

Pros: I can breed him

Cons: * My child is little and I don't want her hurt

*I don't really have any place to keep him and the fillies seperate, yet.

*There are three breeders with nice stallions within 60 miles.

I'm sure there are more reasons NOT to keep him intact.

Now what? Just wait until they appear? I guess if he may hang on to them until two I need to devise some sort of fence to keep them apart. He's not really trying to mount them or anything, but I've heard of yearlings getting pregnant and I don't want that to happen.

If I could only get that barn up!

Stacye

Edited to say that he is the black one. Kayla named him "Pretty Jeff"

 

[PaintsRule]

Like many have said, I would not want to keep a line going that is late droppers. I would much rather have a colt I was sure of, then one that was a wait and see.

Not to knowing FOR SURE if he has dropped or not. Even though they can bring them up, after dropping, when they lay down (not flat on their side, but with legs tucked in) the belly pushes them out. SO if you can catch him laying down and sneak up and look you should be able to see them!

I was looking at a colt once, and the woman took a picture (at my suggestion) of them pushed out when he was laying down.

If they can push out like that, I am quite sure, the colt could be gelded normally without extra cost.

 

[Jill]

If you're going to have the vet out in the spring to pull coggins and/or do shots, you could have him or her palpate you colt then to see if he can be gelded normally.

I had my leopard appy gelded at like 6mos of age. I myself could not feel his little decorations, but Rhapsody Rhodes, his breeder, had felt them and I trusted her completely (she's very nice!!!). So, I had the vet out and he gelded him no problems.

At the time, Jack, my leopard colt, wanted me to tell everyone "they" were the size of golf balls, but in reality, they were smaller than lima beans so no wonder I didn't really know if I felt them for sure or not!

 

[Black Magic]

I have to say, I think this is a genetic thing, and our boys sire is of National standing, and so of course, he wasn't gelded, and our boys, who are both now full stallions live happily together... They have the best temperment and both of our little daughters feed and groom and love on the boys. I understand from people who kept their sire, that he was quite the gentleman. The boys sire was kept with the boys without incident. They are three year olds.

I have to say (as I put on my flame suit here) from what I've seen in my very novice experience the temperment has so much to do with feeding and many other outside influences. Our now gelding was in with seven other stallions until he was four years old, and he had to fight for his feed. Heck, he wasn't safe with anyone, because he was taught he had to fight to eat, and fight he did. One man DIED (of a heart attack) while trying to train him to be able to be handled. Someone on this website figured out what his attitude was all about, and as soon as we started feeding him in a stall vs outside, he calmed way down. I regret that we had him gelded. We thought gelding would make him safer around the kids... well... six mos later and NOT! However, today, he's a pussy cat. He realizes that he has his feeding spot, where other horses will not be, and he can spend all day eating if he wants, and often does. He'll take a bite of grain, and then a bite of hay... and two hours later, he's still in his little barn .. munching. We did not see any change in him until we met his needs as far as him feeling secure. Gelding did nothing for him. Even our vet said that gelding takes the edge off, but if you have a naturally agressive horse sometime even gelding doesn't help. All testosterone is NOT produced just in the testies..... (I learned that here too!)

Our Horsezilla is now saddle broke and does church affairs etc, with many many children with no riding background. He is always the gentleman ... NOW.

My opinion is, that you have to judge whether or not your colt demonstrates any aggressive tendencies and then make the decision to geld or not to geld. If after you geld, you might even decide that he still has agressive tendencies and that he just isn't safe around children. Our kids got no where near our Horsezilla until he and I had dealt with his issues. I believe it was a combination of raging hormones , fear of not getting fed, plus he had a horrible case of thrush when we got him. But now.. he's the sweetest horse you'd ever meet.

Don't feel pressured to geld or not too. You will know in your heart, when the time is right. Also, check the Farmer's Almanac for the best days to geld... (I know we did it in March which is what they reccomended that year).

God Bless...

JMHO...

Lynn W

 

[HGFarm]

From my experience, they are usually there at birth (and I always check) and then disappear for a while---- have seen them descend anywhere from 8 months to three years.... My current stallion was about 20 months when his dropped.

 

[miniwhinny]

I've posted numerous times on this topic. I have an 18 month old colt who so far only has one testicle...

I MUST tell you all this...

There are some people who have the courage to post their opinions - there are WAYYYYY more who don't want to get flamed for disagreeing and for their own reasons want to keep their opinions and experience private.

Here's what I've found out so far...There is an OVERWHELMING, and I mean OVERWHELMING consensus from people who privatly pm'd me (and I'm talking loads of e-mails/pm's) that American miniature horses drop late and that you shouldn't sweat a drop worrying about a horse who is 2 or even 3 who hasn't dropped one or both. Now don't flame me either way because I'm new to all of this but the opinion of some of the top breeders in the USA (and other countries) is that everything is fine and not to worry at 18 months. I had a tiny number of e-mails over the posts telling me that I should worry.

I'm not saying this is a good trait or a bad one but it's there and from the responses I had the overwhelming opinion was that there's nothing to worry about just sit and wait (as frustrating as that is)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

A bad natured horse is a bad natured horse, gelding does not change that, BUT gelding will remove the possibility of a nice calm stallion suddenly climbing over a startled and badly hurt child in order to get at a mare no-one knew was in season.

Sorry but I would have my child's well being depend on whether or not a mare is in season.

I cannot see the point of keeping a horse intact if he is not going to be bred on a regular basis, there are already far too many stallions around anyway.

 

[HGFarm]

No flaming here LTF and I would not consider dropping at 2 late at ALL. We found with the big horses, we didnt really expect it til then at least- sometimes 2 1/2. I have heard of some horses not dropping til they are four- mini and big ones. I am not sure if there is any connection between dropping 'late' and not dropping at all. To me, dropping 'late' just means the horse just may mature slower, but does not have a physical problem that will not allow it to drop at all- you know, hormones and all that stuff....

This is strictly my opinion here.