Calling all Color Experts ....

[WhiteTailsMinis]

We clipped our Triple K foal this weekend (bought his dam pregnant last fall) and got quite the shock. To the naked eye - the first thing you see is BLUE but according to other opinions, he has no blue roan in his pedigree - and because his head & legs are darker, he can't be gray (I'm told).

Would you color experts have a peek and let me know what you think please?

His DAM is a seal brown (dilute tested): Triple Ks Boogie Bonanza

Sire - Little Kings Boogie Buckeroo

Grandsire- Boones Little Buckeroo

Dam - Sage Bucks Bambino Cappuccino

(daughter of Little Kings Buck the System, a Buckeroo son)

His SIRE is a cremello (double dilute): Triple Ks Double Your Destiny

A Double Destiny son

Here is his baby coat picture - we thought smokey black at this time (?):

Now here is he is clipped this weekend - notice the darker head and four socks - naked eye he appears blue but the camera doesn't capture it quite right in sunshine:

Could this possibly be a sooty buckskin? The mane & tail wouldn't have to be black (or at least darker) to be a sooty buckskin?

Thanks everyone - I'm not good (whatsoever) at color genetics so thought you might be able to help me

[SIZE=12pt]UPDATED: Tami called me from Triple K. She said Destiny DOES throw the Blue Roans and he's had 5 or 6 Blue Roan foals in the past. I had sent Tami the pictures and she called to confirm this foal is in fact a Blue Roan. She indicated his mane and tail will blacken but this is baby fur and weathered from sun etc. How exciting to have our very first Blue Roan - and double Buckeroo at that!?! wow![/SIZE]

 

[chandab]

If dam is seal brown (which is a form of bay, both are found at the agouti loci), then the foal could be a smokey seal brown (brown version of buckskin). He has to have cream with Destiny as his sire, but what base the cream is on can only be definitely pinned down by DNA color testing. Any chance his dam has silver? Just another thought.

Congrats on a very cute colt.

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

I have the color genetics test results on the dam - although not with me at the time of this post. I'll try to update the post later with her results (I don't know how to read them actually) - it might shed more light to this.

Thanks everyone

 

[Julie/Azariah]

Gee, looks Sooty buckskin to me.

Have had a few like that.

 

[Kilkenny Farms]

HEY! We are related!

Your new boy and my two year old buckskin filly are full sibblings. (Triple K Destiny's Pleasant Dream) Pleasant Dream is an earlier foal of your mare Bonanza.

My first thought when looking at the photos was sooty buckskin. But, I think he will probably be a lot like his dam in coloring when he is grown. She is a seal brown, if I remember correctly.

He sure is a pretty boy. I hope you are as happy with him as I am with his sister. She has a nice trot and starts driving training this fall. Plus she has the best temperment!

He is BEAUTIFUL!

Barbara Kilkenny

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

HEY! We are related!

Your new boy and my two year old buckskin filly are full sibblings. (Triple K Destiny's Pleasant Dream) Pleasant Dream is an earlier foal of your mare Bonanza.

My first thought when looking at the photos was sooty buckskin. But, I think he will probably be a lot like his dam in coloring when he is grown. She is a seal brown, if I remember correctly.

He sure is a pretty boy. I hope you are as happy with him as I am with his sister. She has a nice trot and starts driving training this fall. Plus she has the best temperment!

He is BEAUTIFUL!

Barbara Kilkenny

Cool - our family relations keep growing don't they? LOL Yes, we're very pleased with both Bonanza and this foal. This foal has the best personality too - just like you're filly - amazing how much alike these horses can be - truly genetic I guess. Now we have to decide whether or not we're keeping him .......... oh my. LOL

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, if he is Roan...and clipped photos are not the best way to find out a colour....he is a Seal Roan, not a "blue" (Black) Roan as he has a brown/bay base, not black....see the nose muff??

Here is my Bay Roan mare, who pretends to be a Black Roan.

 

[RockinSMiniature]

That's what I thought of "Blue Roan".

I seen one stallion in person is blue roan and he is beautiful.

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

agree I would have thought blacker points at least in the mane and tail - that's what had me so confused. Tami thought the mane and tail were baby hairs that were also sun bleached and would darken up as he ages.

When he still had his baby fur - we would separate it and look deep and see the bluish / silverish color underneath. His head and legs were always darker than the rest of him.

We were hoping for bucksin of any type but if he truly is a roan, then that could very well be even better. LOL

I will have him tested I guess for a better idea.

Thanks for all the responses - lots of great information and the pictures are welcomed also.

 

[chandab]

We were hoping for bucksin of any type but if he truly is a roan, then that could very well be even better. LOLI will have him tested I guess for a better idea.

Thanks for all the responses - lots of great information and the pictures are welcomed also.

Well, he might not be a classic buckskin, but coming from Destiny he definitely carries a cream gene and appears to be black-based, so... smokey seal brown roan (if roan is indeed there), smokey seal brown, smokey black, and possibly any number of back-based cream dilutes.

 

[iowa]

I always thought roan was a dominant gene, so how could he be roan if neither parent was roan?

 

[iowa]

Just another thought. If Destiny is a roan, maybe it is hidden by the cream gene. Is that possible? Cream with roan white hairs would really be hard to detect.

 

[crponies]

Yes, if that stallion is siring roan babies out of non-roan mares, he has to be a roan himself. It is likely that it is not noticeable because of his light coloring. What colors are his parents?

 

[wingnut]

I got to see this little guy get "unwrapped" in person on Friday when I visited Whitetails farm. He is a truly handsome boy! Glad to hear the blue we were seeing wasn't our imagination!

 

[REO]

He kind of looks like a sooty roan to me

 

[MBhorses]

i am lost i taught double dilute can't throw roan color?

 

[crponies]

Sure, double dilute can throw roan color. For example you could have a horse that is e/e (red based), cr/cr (double cream dilute), and R/r (roan). This horse would be a cremello roan but it is doubtful that the roan would be evident since a cremello is so light colored to begin with. However, if that horse was bred it could produce a visibly roan foal.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Hey! Another "relative" here.

I own a colt by Destiny out of a true bay mare. He is genetically a buckskin but looks like a bay. Especially when clipped. In person his base color looks alot like your foal's.

But... he grows LOTS of whitish hairs throughout his body. Kind of like a roan, but darker. (It's hard to explain)

Maybe Destiny does carry a roan gene??? Can we test for that?

I don't have any pictures of him on this computer but you can see him on my website on the Stallion page.

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Wow - love all the information - thanks everyone! It's always so interesting to see everyone's comments and their thoughts - and meeting 1/2 brothers and sisters too!

During my conversation with Tami of Triple K - - she indicated that Destiny's dam carries the roan gene and he apparently can throw it from time to time as he's had 5 or 6 blue roans. I asked the question regarding the foals on his pedigree not stating roan - and she said it's mainly due to new owners not updating the registration papers. That she registers them so early/young (you'd have to if you were having 50+ foals whew) that when they change or appear a different color than what was originally put on the certificate, the new owners should update their paperwork and don't always to it. Maybe they update it when the papers go permanent.

She sent me pictures of his past foals that are definitely blue roan.

Guess we've got a gem here if he only throws them here and there.

We took new pics last night in the shade - noticed that in the sunlight his blue color doesn't get captured in the camera correctly.

While we took dozens of pics - we just didn't get that one perfect one (yet) to share. LOL But he's definitely blue

I guess we'll just have to test him and see what comes back. Should be interesting.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Here are some pics of my Destiny colt. Not really what you would call roan like yours. But he does have all those white hairs throughout his body. They are hard to see in these pics, but they are very noticible now that I have let his coat grow back after the shows.

It is sooo interesting to see the variations in the coat colors that Destiny thows.

As a foal:

After first clip this spring:

At his first show: