Calling Pinto Colour Experts

[midnight star stables]

As you know, I'm a proud new mom of a lovely filly.

I know testing is the only way to know, and I will be testing her some time this year. When I test her, I will share the results.

Dam is a visual Frame and Sabino overo; she is LTD breeding. Sire is a completely solid bay with no white; he holds Modern Shetland bloodlines.

The foal is bay with a small blaze and one white sock. She also has a partial normal blue eye. Both eyes have an easily visible blue shade to them (the right significantly more then the left) at 36 days, however I know in time that might change as babies eyes often do. So it seems to me that there is a very good chance that baby might carry the LWO gene. Other than the blaze and eyes, the filly shows no visual pinto markings (frame, sabino or otherwise). Is Sabino known to throw blue eyes as well?

Right eye:

Left eye:

 

[midnight star stables]

Here is my filly's colour and markings. You can also see her dam in the background.

 

[Carolyn R]

The dam surely represents an overo. With that in mind, and taling into consideration that the foal has blue flecking and facial white, I would test. (heck knowing there is an overo parent would be enough to make me test). Of course there is no urgency in the matter unless it comes down to breeding, but she is a far way off from that thought. Just an FYI, only the pale flecks will stay blue, the rest of the eye will darken.

 

[walkermini]

I have a mare with a blaze very similar to your filly, no other white, no blue eyes and she tested positive for LWO. Its best to test any foal from a known LWO parent (assuming you plan to breed it at some point), even a totally solid horse could be LWO positive.

 

[midnight star stables]

As mentioned earlier, I plan to test. I was wondering has the Sabino pattern been known to throw blue eyes as well?

 

[targetsmom]

Of course you realize that you will only know FOR SURE if you test, but I would say that the chances are good that she is LWO+ based on her dam's color & breeding.

Now, that said, our stallion is Rowdy bred and has a blaze similar to that, and he tested LWO negative. He is a Ramblin Starbuck grandson whereas our LWO+ mare is a Red Boy granddaughter. So you really never know until you test.

 

[ohmt]

I have found almost all of my sabinos have partial blue eyes like your filly will have. They get more and more brown until about a year old and usually have just a quarter or less of the eye blue. There are others who don't agree with me and say it is splash, but I think sabino can cause blue eyes that they just don't seem to completely retain.

 

[midnight star stables]

Thank you all! I will let you know what the results are. I'm hoping LWO+ over Sabino, but she's a lovely pinto filly no matter whan colour is behind that partial blue.

 

[walkermini]

As mentioned earlier, I plan to test. I was wondering has the Sabino pattern been known to throw blue eyes as well?

Sorry, guess I overlooked that at first! Long day at work... Its just a habit to tell people to test, I've known of too many people (with big and mini horses) lose a foal due to lethal white. So sad when it could be easily prevented. I personally dont believe sabino causes blue eyes, only splash and frame (LWO). To me, your filly looks like the kind of blue that some foals have until they are older, not a blue from a pinto gene. They are usually a much lighter blue, and stay blue.

 

[midnight star stables]

Sorry, guess I overlooked that at first! Long day at work... Its just a habit to tell people to test, I've known of too many people (with big and mini horses) lose a foal due to lethal white. So sad when it could be easily prevented. I personally dont believe sabino causes blue eyes, only splash and frame (LWO). To me, your filly looks like the kind of blue that some foals have until they are older, not a blue from a pinto gene. They are usually a much lighter blue, and stay blue.

That's okay, it's been a long day here too. The pinto blue eye I am referring to is the 1/4 blue fleck on the right eye. It will stay blue, as it is not the same as the faded blue. I'm looking at testing labs now, as I'm really curious to hear the results!

I am also a frame enthusiast, it took me many years to find the right frame mare, and months to fine the right solid stallion to cross with her. I have done much research on several colours and patterns, and certainly know the importance of testing.

 

[lucky lodge]

i have a tovero with 2 blue eyes would she carry the LWO

 

[Songcatcher]

Since the dam is a Frame, you KNOW the filly has a 50/50 chance of being Frame also.

I think most people who study color genetics have come to the conclusion that Sabino does not cause blue eyes, but a few believe it does, and put up a very good arguement for it. One arguement is that Splash is simply one of the many forms of Sabino. Some are even questioning if Frame causes blue eyes or if all blue eyes (other than double dilute) are caused by Splash. Since there is not yet a test for Splash, it cannot yet be proven. I am SO anxious for a test for Splash to be developed. It will answer so many questions.

lucky lodge, if your horse is a breeding animal, i would DEFINITELY test for LWO. I have or have had many LWO carriers that you could not tell by looking.

 

[midnight star stables]

i have a tovero with 2 blue eyes would she carry the LWO

The term "tovero" (like "overo") is a very poor one to use when questioning colour. Tovero means Tobiano AND Sabino or Splash or Frame or any combination of those three "overo colours" ("overo" being a blanket term for Sabino, Splash and Frame). You should look into the horses pedigree and still likely test for frame. You can share pictures here and it is possible that you can get some clarification on which patterns she showing. Colour can be confusing! And like SongCatcher said,,, There are so many unanswered questions still.

SongCatcher, thanks for sharing that, I too look forward to a Splash test... One day

Do you think that the Splash might end up being like the Sabino test, in where there are different types within the pattern?

 

[Songcatcher]

SongCatcher, thanks for sharing that, I too look forward to a Splash test... One day

Do you think that the Splash might end up being like the Sabino test, in where there are different types within the pattern?

Personally, I kind of lean toward Splash being a part of the Sabino complex, but that is only a gut feeling. I very well may be proven wrong. I have heard for a few years now that they are working on a Splash test, but I don't know if that means they actually are close to a breakthrough or if they are just working.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have a feeling that a lot of what we call Sabino is going to fit into Dominant White, anyway- too many horses, as with the Clidesdales, test negative for Sab1, yet are obviously Sabino.

I don't think Sabino is Splash, I think they are separate, Splash follows too many rules of it's own, I feel.

Since there is no test, effectively, for either Sabino or Splash, there is no way at the moment, of telling if a horse has more than one pattern (ie, Splash and Sabino) but I don't think Sabino causes blue eyes and I am no longer sure that LWO does, either.

Still, til we get a test for the other patterns the only way to know is to keep making educated guesses!