Can she really take me to court????

[MyMenagerie]

Hi All! Thank you so much for all your responses!!

I had a brilliant brainstorm this afternoon.....I called the shipper! The "buyer" had sent me the shipper's info, back when I was still waiting on money from her. Guess what.....She hasn't paid the shipper a dime! She had accepted the bid on the 27th, and as of 4:00 this afternoon, has sent them nothing. They don't even have a contract with her. The shipper is just awesome & was really helpful. She is sending an email letter to the buyer stating that there is no contract & that she has not received any money from buyer, and she's going to CC me in on it. She's also going to email me stating the same thing. The shipper said the only fee the buyer may have to pay is the Uship fee, which is about $40, but she also said that there is a condition in Uships terms that states if the horse sale is cancelled, the fee can be refunded.

So, I'm guessing that I can sign a big sigh of relief??? If she hasn't paid the shipper, then how can she take me to small claims court over the money that she did not pay on a horse that she did not own or send a downpayment on???

If that's the case, then WHEW!! And maybe my stomach will settle down enough for me to eat some supper :lol:

 

[Reble]

I believe as long as no money is in your hands and taken from her. No Deal untill payment.

You sent that back...

:

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Whew! I'd say a lesson learned for you. Thank goodness it's over. I was going to suggest you try to call the alleged shipper, but you beat me to it. This is a lesson in what can happen when there is no contract. It can be MUCH worse, but you got a little taste. We've always written contracts, even when the buyer doesn't want one. It's not only to protect us, I tell them, it's to protect them too! Good contracts = happy buyers & sellers.

In your contract, make sure to specify what is the buyer's responsibilty (things you won't pay for) and what are your responsibilities (things you will provide or pay for.)

I truly think this woman is playing some sort of game & I hope no one else here is a victim. - karen

 

[MyMenagerie]

I'd like to block her email address, but don't know if that's a wise idea, in case she pulls some other little scheme out of her ***. What do you think?

 

[dannigirl]

I read all of these responses and I would not block her e-mails. If I did not want to read them, I would put them in a file for future reference in case they were needed. Seems she is not very smart. She will mess up again and then you will have her. Just remember than anything that is in print can make or break her case. So far, it sounds like she has made a mess of things and you have it all in print.

Now--calm down--take a deep breath--go hug your horses and then have a nice quiet dinner with your family. She is the one that needs to live and sleep with her bad choices.

Angie

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

So sorry this has happened to you. I am glad you called the shipper and found out she sent them nothing. I dont believe she would have a leg to stand up on in court, I wouldnt worry about it at all...calm down, take a nice hot bath (Ok, I know its HOT here in Wisconsin, but didnt want to say cold bath :bgrin ) relax, and eat a nice meal. Then go and play with your minis.

: Corinne

 

[Miniv]

I'd like to block her email address, but don't know if that's a wise idea, in case she pulls some other little scheme out of her ***. What do you think?

No.......don't block them. Save them and let her hang herself with her own words.

MA

 

[Boinky]

Nope i'd say she certainly DOESN'T have a leg to stand on if she hasn't paid the shipper or even have a contract with them. The shippers are aware now that she is trying to cause trouble and will not be likely to make out paperwork if she asks predating or anything. I'd also perhaps take the other persons advice who suggested calling the DA in her area.. She does sound like she's trying very hard to scam you out of money....

 

[Dona]

The other thing she did was, in the ad, I'd advertised the mare as exposed to & bred by my stallion. With a LFG consiting of "should she not produce a live foal next year, she can be brought back & rebred to my stallion". I also stated that the mare was being sold with no other guarantees. All of a sudden, after several days, she emails me & tells me that she wants a refund if the mare ends up being infertile, or doesn't have a foal next year. Also said that she felt that I was responsible for any shipping costs for bringing the mare back & forth to be rebred to my stallion. It's been a nightmare right from the start.....

GOOD GRIEF! This wacko sounds like a real "piece of work"....and is just trying to bully her way into getting everything she possibly can. I would refuse to deal with people like this....wouldn't sell any of my horses to them, no matter HOW MUCH they offered! :no:

 

[miniwhinny]

One more thing to protect yourself in the future. No matter how trusting you are there will always be people out there like this lady. I wouldn't let a horse off my property with just a down payment. I'd require the horse be paid in full before it could be picked up. I have a friend at the moment who sold a full size horse and let her go with a $200 down payment...the horse is 500 miles away and she hasn't had another payment in over 10 months. I'd write everything in a contract and require the horse be paid off by a certain date. That way they couldn't keep making excuses to you. I'd say something like...if the horse isn't paid in full by a certain date then board will be charged..and/or the deposit will be forfeit and the horse re sold.

Just an idea to save future headaches.

 

[Debby - LB]

Well as usual I'm the weirdo that thinks out of the box.....but first to answer this question, yes in todays world she can file suit if she wants to.

But I have to say if you had no intention of holding the horse you should have told her "No" do not over night the money.

I can't believe someone who was told to not send it would spend the money to overnight it.

I know it is aggravating to have waited a week in the first place, and if that had been me I would have told her "no I am sorry but I will not sell the horse to you now, so do not send it" or re-send it what ever the excuse was.... If I thought she lied that would have been it. I don't deal well with liars.

I do not do business in a who ever shows up with the money first manner.

If I'm considering a horse and someone tells me... so and so else is interested..fine sell to so and so else, let me know if they back out and you'd like to deal with me.

If I'm corresponding with someone about a horse of mine and another person inquires then I explain that someone is interested and can I please contact you if they do not buy. I deal with people one on one, money is not my motivation a satisifed buyer and a good home for my horse is.

I'd never sell a horse without that next day passing....when I knew someone was supposed to be over nighting me the money.

I do see the reason to not sell to this person from the things that you've said she/he demanded of you, but I feel if the money had showed up on time or the other person hadn't showed up we wouldn't be having this conversation either....so there you go.

 

[HGFarm]

When was the shipper supposed to arrive? They will usually refund your money on a trip not used if it is not at the last second. It sounds like you still had health papers to do yet? She has time to cancel and get a refund. Do you know what shipper she was using? I would contact them directly and get the info from them and would not take this person at their word as she has already broken that.

I dont see that she has a leg to stand on. Has she even made an effort to get the money back?

When was the shipper supposed to arrive? They will usually refund your money on a trip not used if it is not at the last second. It sounds like you still had health papers to do yet? She has time to cancel and get a refund. Do you know what shipper she was using? I would contact them directly and get the info from them and would not take this person at their word as she has already broken that.

I dont see that she has a leg to stand on. Has she even made an effort to get the money back?

I agree with not blocking the emails. I have learned in the past to save EVERYTHING! People will hang themselves with their own lies, story changes and some of the other crap they try to pull. It can become quite entertaining actually. :lol: I also agree to not get a headache by even bothering to read them, but to put them in a file and save them. They can come in handy later.

 

[MyMenagerie]

One more thing to protect yourself in the future. No matter how trusting you are there will always be people out there like this lady. I wouldn't let a horse off my property with just a down payment. I'd require the horse be paid in full before it could be picked up. I have a friend at the moment who sold a full size horse and let her go with a $200 down payment...the horse is 500 miles away and she hasn't had another payment in over 10 months. I'd write everything in a contract and require the horse be paid off by a certain date. That way they couldn't keep making excuses to you. I'd say something like...if the horse isn't paid in full by a certain date then board will be charged..and/or the deposit will be forfeit and the horse re sold.

Just an idea to save future headaches.

Yes, I'd told her several times that the horse would not leave my property until I had the cleared payment, or cash in my hand, in the full amount. That was another issue with her. I'd told her upfront that the horse wouldn't leave until I had payment in full, but she still insisted on mailing a personal check....a week after she originally said she'd sent it....and she wanted the shipper to come that week yet; within 3 days of me receiving her personal check. I told her no way would that happen!

After her stating that she had the downpayment in the mail on Wed, she'd already proven herself a liar, so I wasn't going to pass on another potential buyer based on her word. She'd changed several of her other stories, too.

When I talked to the shipper yesterday afternoon, they had not gotten any money from her, and they had never even sent her a contract. So unless she wants it to be contended with a Frivilous Law Suit, she'd be stupid to try & sue. I talked to several different lawyers yesterday & even if she had paid the shipper, they figured there was no way she could hold me responsible for that money. But in light of the fact that she hasn't paid them anything, there's really nothing she can go after. Pretty much all of the lawyers said they figured she was blowing a lot of hot air.

I'm just hoping that this is the end of it & I don't hear anything more from her! My stomach can't take much more of this...

:

Thanks again for all your insight & input!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well as usual I'm the weirdo that thinks out of the box.....but first to answer this question, yes in todays world she can file suit if she wants to.

But I have to say if you had no intention of holding the horse you should have told her "No" do not over night the money.

I can't believe someone who was told to not send it would spend the money to overnight it.

I know it is aggravating to have waited a week in the first place, and if that had been me I would have told her "no I am sorry but I will not sell the horse to you now, so do not send it" or re-send it what ever the excuse was.... If I thought she lied that would have been it. I don't deal well with liars.

I do not do business in a who ever shows up with the money first manner.

If I'm considering a horse and someone tells me... so and so else is interested..fine sell to so and so else, let me know if they back out and you'd like to deal with me.

If I'm corresponding with someone about a horse of mine and another person inquires then I explain that someone is interested and can I please contact you if they do not buy. I deal with people one on one, money is not my motivation a satisifed buyer and a good home for my horse is.

I'd never sell a horse without that next day passing....when I knew someone was supposed to be over nighting me the money.

I do see the reason to not sell to this person from the things that you've said she/he demanded of you, but I feel if the money had showed up on time or the other person hadn't showed up we wouldn't be having this conversation either....so there you go.

Debby I fully agree in fact I learned this lesson early on - I tried to buy a gelding from a breeder who I had just bought a stallion from in fact I inquired about the stallion and a couple hours later the gelding she told me she had someone who wanted a video and if they were not interested I could have him. I offered her more money wired to her acct without a video she stuck to her guns and said nope she had to be fair and give buyer 1 time to see the video and make a decision - I was sad but respected her for it, in fact I went on over the next year or so to purchase several horses from her and in the long run the new owner of the gelding showed him for a couple of years and had some life changes and knew I wanted him and I got him he is here forever

: So it all worked out and I really had dealt with a seller who was working very differently then many of the others I had dealt with.

It was something I respected as a buyer and now try to emulate (is that the right word) as a Seller.

Dont get me wrong everyone does things differently and I am not saying you were wrong bottom line is you always have to go with your gut feelings from the get go they are rarely wrong

 

[DunPainted]

Don't let her get your underwear in a bunch....

Just shrug your shoulders, walk away and repeat after me....

Nothing is sold without a contract and nothing is sold until I have my $$ in hand.

Nothing is sold without a contract and nothing is sold until I have my $$ in hand.

:worshippy: gotta love Jean B

:deadhorse2: Drop the stick...... Let her eat Tums.

 

[Lauralee]

I did not read all the posts, just the first few.

But I had to laugh at the story about this bully threatening you with court.

Same thing happened to me when I refused to sell a mare to a well-advertised popular farm in IOWA.

Thought it might be the same folks, but your bully is in Ohio.

Stick to your guns. You have the right to withdraw sale of your horse for any reason at any time.

 

[Minimor]

I guess she thinks this horse of yours is the one and only horse in the world that will suit her? I suppose you should be flattered :bgrin But gads, she is really going to far. Yeah, maybe I'd be annoyed in her place but at the same time, if I told you I was mailing the down payment today, it would be in the mail today. I'd probably expresspost it just to make sure it got to you within a reasonable time frame. I sure wouldn't pay a shipper until I knew the horse was for sure mine, and I wouldn't expect you to send the horse before the check clears the bank. I'd be disappointed if the horse was sold out from under me but as long as you returned my money, I wouldn't be too angry. These things happen.

If I were in your place, at the point where she said she'd send the money one day, then several days later said she was going to overnight it--that's when I would have wrote off this buyer. Sorry, but I've had this runaround before--money is coming now by this method, then the next day the money is coming tomorrow by this other method, I'm afraid I tend to start thinking that the money really isn't coming at all. When that sort of thing starts up, the deal is off.

Something like this happened to someone on another board awhile back (big horse in that case). In that case the horse was not suitable for the buyer, so the seller cancelled the sale. Buyer was furious & made all sorts of threats, even said she was coming to pick up the horse. Horse got moved to a different boarding stable so the person couldn't find it & take it--horse wasn't paid for after all (deposit was returned)--there was a lot of huffing and puffing & threats of lawsuits & such, but in the end it was nothing more than hot air. Buyer didn't have a leg to stand on and probably knew it. I never could see why the person was so set on that one particular horse. Nice as any horse may be, there is usually another one around that is just as suitable, or more suitable actually.

You've returned the deposit to this person, she hasn't actually paid the shipper (unless the $50 has been paid?)--I really don't think she has much of a leg to stand on.

I'd be different from most others here. I would not keep her e-mails; I'd actually have written her once and informed her that I don't wish to receive any more e-mails from her, and if she persists in sending them I will turn them over to my attorney and have her charged with harassment. I might then wait & see if she did reply again (just out of curiosity) and from there put her on my spam list & would never even see any more of her stupid messages. Have an auto-reply sent saying that her message has been deleted without being read & all future messages will be deleted by the spam filter, and that's the end of contact with her. Nothing more annoying to someone than knowing their messages are being deleted without being read.

: Pbbbt. Life's too short to let someone like that try to get at me.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I wouldn't worry, there was no contract signed (you do have one that you tried to have signed, right?) and the check wasn't cashed. She might take you to court, the most that'll cost you is an afternoon's entertainment as you watch her try to bluster the judge with no evidence and no paperwork. Keep your emails, your reciets, and your dilivery confirmation reciept. She'll have to drive all the way to you, pay the filing fees, and defend it, over $350 or $50 as you later posted? Not worth it to her, she's just trying to see if you'll pay to shut her up

 

[Cathy_H]

This is what I would do -offer to help her find another horse.......... Since Lee & I & some here are cutting back on horses, some of our prices are almost at pet price for show & breeding quality................ Perhaps she feels she cannot find another one to her liking & price but let her know they are out there - help her find another one - I would............. She may not have access to this forum/saleboard - email her some names of farms etc in her area with a note & let that be the end of your communication wth her. If she acts on it fine - if not rest in peace!

 

[Jean_B]

This is what I would do -offer to help her find another horse..........

That would be a HUGE mistake as it would open things up again. This person had no intention of ever buying a horse. She was trying to extort money. Plain and simple. Almost as insidious as the Nigerian bank scam.