Carafate Q - Update on fillies with ulcers after Equine Affaire pg.3

[targetsmom]

For those of you who have used Carafate for ulcers, can you tell me exactly WHEN you used it in relation to feeding and Gastrogard treatment? I know you need to treat with Carafate before you feed and not near the time of using Gastrogard. When I treated for ulcers in the past I would dose with Carafate a half hour or so before breakfast, and 2 hours before dinner and use the Gastrogard around noon. I feed hay and grain at 7 AM & 5 PM and hay only at noon and 10PM. I am here all the time so can dose whenever it is best.

Our two weanling fillies that we took to Equine Affaire are both showing signs of ulcers (not eating grain) despite being treated with U-Gard for days before they went, fed hay in slow feeder while there, getting plenty of soaked alfalfa cubes, and being watched like hawks. Our record with treating for ulcers is pretty bad - both minis that we treated with Carafate died and I do NOT want that to happen with these two!!!!

If you are just lurking and can help, please e-mail me at [email protected].

Thank you....

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

I had a Qh gelding who was on gastroguard and STILL ate his sweet feed. The vet only put him on gastroguard for 2 weeks and I gave it to him with his grain( switched to pellets). The molasses in sweet feed is really hard on their tummys. Also feed alfalfa. Its suppose to help settle. As far as Carafate for ulcers. I've never used it. :/

 

[muffntuf]

You feed them separately - at the minimum one hour apart. I broke up the morning feeding for my ponies - gave them the sulcrafate first and then waited a couple hours to give second feeding with the ulcer guard.

 

[Becky]

When I've treated for suspected ulcer cases, I"ve given Sucralfate and Ranitidine at the same time before feeding. Twice a day (Ranitidine sometimes 3 X day). Then I give Ulcer/Gastro Guard a few hours later in the morning. I've had really good luck doing this when I treat aggressively.

I've found any of the other ulcer products (non medications) simply do not work.

Has anybody tried GastroMax3? I just ordered some to have on hand. I believe it may be as affective as combining Sucralfate/Ranitidine/UlcerGuard. http://horsegold.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27&products_id=46

 

[stormy]

Carafate needs to be given every 8 hrs to be effective, and I was told timing is essential with this drug. Best to give other meds at least an hour before giving Carafate as it does impact absorbtion. Carafate is best given an hour or so before meals.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Hi i had a filly with ulcers that were symptomatic ( its estimated that about 70% of all foals with have ulcers at some point, but most will not show symptoms) I used carafate liquid twice daily at double the adult human dose because it was cheap and this coated the ulcer, and Rantidine HCL,4-5 times a day at double the human dose again because it was cheap this drug neutralizes acid that is already in the stomach , and is only active for about 4 hours, and Nexium ( pump inhibitor) not because it was cheap, but we had free samples were i worked, again at double the human adult dose this drug after about three days reduces the amount of stomach acid produced. I also fed free choice alfalfa which buffers stomach acid as well. This combination worked very well for me.

Sometimes the first thing to do for stomach ulcers in horses is just to put them on free choice pasture, and this may be all you really need to do according to my Vet.

Hope things get better for your little horse.

 

[targetsmom]

Thanks for all the comments. They got Ulcergard at noon and started on the Carafate before supper tonight. I already have Ulcergard on hand and on order so is there any reason to use the other drugs? I know it doesn't do the same thing as it is supposed to suppress acid production rather than neutralize it. Would I just get these over the counter at the drug store?? I am going to take away the grain they won't eat (even small amounts) and try just alfalfa cubes (soaked) several times a day, plus putting them on any "pasture" I can find, which is not much this time of year. I also have a slow hay feeder I can use for them, but only grass hay to put in it. Still, that should simulate pasture....

Thanks again an please keep fingers crossed for our little girls, who were a big hit at Equine Affaire.

 

[Becky]

I would absolutely use Ranitidine (Zantac) along with your Sucralfate and UlcerGuard. UlcerGuard works on stomach ulcers and Ranitidine is effective on intestinal ulcers, so a combination of both is most effective.

Hoping your fillies get better quickly.

 

[targetsmom]

Thanks Becky!! I will get Zantac and start them on that tomorrow. Bunny (in avatar) ate some of the alfalfa cubes I just took out but Snappy, who was there a day longer, will only touch hay. All the horses we took came home each night because we live about 25 minutes away. So there were there from about 9AM-5PM each day, with a slow hay feeder and several walks a day. We also had a major weather change over the 4 days - from snow/sleet on Thursday to temps in the 60's on Sunday and Monday, then back to 40's again this week. I am sure that is not helping any of us.

 

[bevann]

Ask your vet about using Aloe Vera juice get it at Walmart or pharmacy(cheap)I have used it very successfully on a Mini post surgery 6 cc orally 3 times daily.Horse stopped grinding teeth within 2 days.It was suggested to me by a well known equine vet at an eastern vet university.She told me clients had used it and it worked.Nothing to lose by trying.I have used it myself for bad indigestion when n othing else would work.I figure if it's good enough for my horses it's ok for me.I keep a bottle in the barn fridge at all times.Hope they get better-keep us posted.

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

If you use zantac how do you dose?

 

[Charlotte]

Definitely use all 3 drugs. Carafate, Ranitidine and Ulcerguard/Gastroguard. Carafate 2 x day, Ranitidine 3 x day, Ulcerguard 1 x day

And let them have whatever they will eat other than grains. I usually have 6 or more little pans of various kinds of hays. Grass hay and grass hay pellets, Loose alfalfa, chopped alfalfa (dry and soaked), alfalfa pellets and anything else I can think of to tempt them. The goal is to keep them eating 24 hours per day. I probably wouldn't use a snacker bag for feeding till they are completely over this since the idea is to get food into them to buffer the acid.

and keep an eye on water consumption as many ulcer horses will cut down on water and actually end up with an impaction with the root cause being the ulcers.

Like Becky, I've never seen the ulcer preventative's to be of any value and I think I've tried most of them.

Good luck with these babies. You are right on top of it and I bet they come around quickly.

 

[targetsmom]

Bedtime update: Temps are still OK (vet suggested I keep an eye on them too) 101.2 & 101.5. I found some older bales of hay that are new to them - one is very fine and the other has always been popular, so I gave them small piles of each of those along with their regular hay and soaked alfalfa cubes. Both are drinking and pooping. and eating the new hay. Because I am sick too, I can check them in the night while I am not sleeping. Tomorrow we plan to turn them out in the backyard. They were turned out for a little while this afternoon and grazed on what is there. Thank you!

Mary

 

[Margo_C-T]

You've received good advice. One person asked about dosing; FWIW, for a 33 1/2" horse who weighed @ 225 lbs., I used 6-7 of the 150 mg. tabs(human product)per dose. My experienced equine vet told me it should be given at least every 8 hours to be effective, and the precise spacing of dosage is important, so for example, at 6 AM, 2 PM, and 10 PM...of course also taking into account the proximity to other meds and to meals.

YES to keeping them able to 'graze' on something at ALL times, and to using a decent proportion of alfalfa! The aloe vera juice, and even plain yogurt, may very well help and won't hurt.

Good job of getting right on top of this; am thinking your youngsters will be fine!

Margo

 

[targetsmom]

Why would I not use the human dose for the Zantac (1 tab at a time), especially for weanlings that weigh just over 100 pounds each? And the package says not to use more than twice a day, but people here are saying 3X/day.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Why would I not use the human dose for the Zantac (1 tab at a time), especially for weanlings that weigh just over 100 pounds each? And the package says not to use more than twice a day, but people here are saying 3X/day.

horse have much more stomach acid then humans, and they produce it constantly as they are supposed to be "grazing" animals. Most people feed horses twice daily, and some horses can tolerate this, but others it causes problems such as ulcers. Horses are not designed to be fed twice daily, rather small amounts many times a day. the amount of Omeprazole that is in the ulcergaurd is way stronger than in the human medicine.

 

[targetsmom]

Thanks Lil Hoofbeats - that makes sense. The irony in this is that while the minis were at the Equine Affaire they were getting hay constantly in a slow feeder that was filled often, so were fed MORE often than they are here, where it is usually 4X/day. They are grazing in the backyard now and seem content. The seem even more content when we hand graze them on the front lawn which has real grass!

 

[lil hoofbeats]

well that feeding regimen was best! you cant do much better than that! so not sure why they got ulcers??? who knows??

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I saw ant article where they did autopsy's on foals still born, and they never found ulcers, but when they did autopsys of foals that only lived 12 hours they found them so that study showed they developed pretty fast. When my filly developed them i looked up as many articles that i could find as i was not educated in the area of ulcers in horses. Look them up, and there are quite a few out there if i remember correctly. I hope your little ones do well.

 

[Becky]

It takes more than the normal adult human dose of Zantac to heal ulcers in horses. For an adult miniature in the 250 lb range, I may give 3 - 150 mg tabs 3 X day. For a weanling, I would probably give 2 tabs - 3 X day.

I've had great success doing this over the years and combined with UlcerGuard and Sucralfate (if needed), this treatment for ulcers has worked extremely well.

Also, hay or grazing (works best!) as often as possible will really help to heal those ulcer cases!