Chewing and Pulling at the bit.

[HorseMom]

When I started Jay driving I was using a Half Cheek Jointed Snaffle. He really chewed the bit and pulled a lot. Our training just wasn't going anywhere because of it. I had his teeth done shortly after to make sure it wasn't his teeth that were bothering him. He still chewed the bit and pulled and just tried to avoid it at all costs.

I switched him to a Half Cheek Mullen Mouth Snaffle and we saw some improvement, but not enough. He's still chewing and avoiding the bit. I can't really get him to set his head if he avoids the bit.

I have never used anything other then a snaffle in all the time that I've had my own horses, so I don't know where to start in finding a different bit that might work out better for him. Some of these bits cost a small fortune. I don't want to take a wild guess and spend money on something that won't work at all. I don't mind buying a bit with an educated guess and finding out it doesn't work.

Does anyone have any advice on a driving bit that may work out a little better then the Half Cheek Mullen Mouth Snaffle that I'm currently using?

Thanks in advance.

 

[disneyhorse]

How long/often has he been driven?

Some horses just have busy mouths, sometimes a bit with a roller helps to entertain them.

Sometimes it just takes a lot of time with the bit in the mouth, until they become comfortable with it.

Andrea

 

[krissy3]

I was ground driving my gelding this weekend, he was fussing with his half cheek snaffel, I looked over and he had the half cheek part in his mouth, next moment his milk tooth poped out.. I know you said his teeth have been checked, how old is he? Like disney horse said , some horses are just busy with their mouth until they get use to the bit.

 

[HorseMom]

He is a stallion and has always been a bit mouthy, he can't stand tied without chewing on the lead rope. I don't drive him as often as I would like. Twice a week once with the trainer and once with just myself. He needs someone to hold him while I hitch him to the cart and everyone at the farm is either too busy to be bothered or too scared of him. He's really not a bad guy, they just remember how nasty he was before I bought him. Do you think that it might help if I just ground drove him on days that I don't have a second pair of hands and see if he improves with that?

 

[HorseMom]

I was ground driving my gelding this weekend, he was fussing with his half cheek snaffel, I looked over and he had the half cheek part in his mouth, next moment his milk tooth poped out.. I know you said his teeth have been checked, how old is he? Like disney horse said , some horses are just busy with their mouth until they get use to the bit.

He's 8. He's only had a bit in his mouth for the last year. He wasn't even halter broke when I bought him 2 years ago.

He had never had his teeth done before I got him then it was a nightmare to get the vet to do them. She kept saying that he didn't need it. Thankfully we have a vet that boards his horse at the farm. I told him my dilemma and he was more then happy to help me out. He said that his mouth had been in bad shape. I recently had Tom check his mouth again to see it there was any change, he said everything was fine.

 

[disneyhorse]

If you have access to the horse, I absolutely would ground drive him on days that you don't have help to hitch him. Twice weekly may not be enough time for him to come to terms with the bit.

Since he's mouthy, he must like to chew on it and it is new and uncomfortable to him every time you put it in his mouth. Think of it as wearing some new article of clothing... like when I got my engagement ring I played with the darn thing all the time at first. Now, because I'm so used it it, it's like it's not even there.

Some horses take a lot longer to get a "quiet mouth" and it is often recommended to put a bridle on the horse every day for an hour or so if possible, even if just when you are grooming the horse or have it tied while you clean its stall.

Think of foals... when you first put that halter on them they are unhappy, shake their heads, try to scratch it off... but eventually horses get used to wearing them and act like it's not even there after a while.

I just think he's not used to it yet. I'd put the bridle on him as often as possible... and ground driving would be even better if you have the time! I ground drive the heck out of my driving horses... even once they are broke to cart. I drive them in the arena and out around town on the streets. I think it's good for them.

Andrea

 

[DrivinTime]

If you want to try a different bit that isn't too terribly expensive, I've had good luck with the "Miniature and Pony Butterfly with Bean Link" from Iowa Valley Carriage (http://www.iowavalleycarriage.com/bits.php). Nice quality and wonderful service! (I use it without the chain.)

 

[Sue_C.]

I second a "trip" through the Iowa Valley Carriage site, but the bit I recommend is the half cheek french link. It has worked for me a few times with horses which don't have a high enough palate for a regular single-jointed mouthpiece (I don't like them anyways) and the french link gives a bit more room for the tongue than a mullen does, yet cannot poke the roof of the mouth like the single-jointed bits can.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Kudos to you for your determination in making sure his teeth got checked. It's so important! Horses with busy mouths can be difficult to diagnose. He could simply be playing with the bit, he could be trying to get more movement out of it, he could need a more solid bit with LESS movement than the snaffle, he could be expressing discomfort, he could be objecting to its adjustment or something in the way you handle the lines...the possibilities are endless. Simple snaffles cause a lot of horses to fuss so that and the quality of your bit are always two of the first things to check. When I moved my gelding to a mullen mouth he stopped gaping his mouth on contact the way he had with a snaffle but he played with it endlessly and steered like a mack truck. I finally went to a mullen mouth Myler with tongue relief and he LOVES that bit because it doesn't poke his pallet but he can wiggle it around and play with the independent side action. Another bit to consider (and it's considerably cheaper) is the bit DrivinTime mentions below.

If you want to try a different bit that isn't too terribly expensive, I've had good luck with the "Miniature and Pony Butterfly with Bean Link" from Iowa Valley Carriage (http://www.iowavalleycarriage.com/bits.php). Nice quality and wonderful service! (I use it without the chain.)

I just bought that bit at the National Drive to start my yearling in next year. Sandee is a wonderful person and her mini bit selection is increasingly nice although there's some production issues occasionally that drive her nuts. I wasn't overly impressed with the quality of the links on the copper French Link bits but the more rounded ones in German Silver were very nice indeed and that's what I bought. That particular bit variety is available in French Link (with the bean facing you) or a "horizontal elliptical," which is the one she calls the Bean Bit online. The only difference I could figure out was the French Link version has the joints facing the tongue so could have a little more bite while the horizontal version lays completely flat on the tongue. I drove a mare with the French Link version at the Drive and she went very well in the bit but I didn't get to compare results with the Bean version as she took a 4" bit and I bought the 3.5" model for my boys. We'll see next year! German Silver is a copper alloy so has the same "wet mouth" effect as the copper link but seemed much better constructed in this case.

Either of those is good for a horse with a busy or sensitive mouth as they can play with it but there's nothing to irritate them when you take up contact and it's a very soft, cooperative bit. Give him more time wearing a comfortable bit in his stall and working softly with it in hand and see how he does. He needs to learn that the bit is his friend.

Leia

 

[HGFarm]

Make sure the bit is WIDE enough and not pinching the corners of his mouth in any way, or that it is a good bit and not pinching his tongue either. Our friends had major problems with driving their stallion and brought him to another farm for some more work by someone more experienced. They discovered right away his bit was pinching- the head tossing and fussing and rearing quit immediately when they changed bits.

 

[Keri]

Good advice from everyone. I just wanted to add....are you using a cavesson on him? If he's just extremely busy mouthed, a cavesson with help keep his mouth shut and teach him to hold the bit. But unfortunately, some of us have horses that need 5 different bits before they find the right one they like too.

And definately go back to ground driving. I feel that you should be able to hitch a horse to a cart by yourself. So go back to the basics. Make sure he whoas and stands quietly. I always have a hold on my lines when hitching mine, but its not needed as they are taught to stand while I'm fussing. So maybe your guy is agitated and that's why he's so mouthy on the bit (or nervous or....??). I would take him back to square one. Take your time. Make sure he's doing everything at a ground work level (and even in hand just halter stuff) properly before hitching him back up (and that includes holding the bit quietly). I think you'll see a difference in his attitude in the cart as well as his attitude all around. Good luck!

 

[Margo_C-T]

My new B-sized gelding came with a 5" brass mullen mouth three slot liverpool!! Previous owner said he just 'wouldn't go' in anything else...well, that thing is both VERY heavy and just too wide for him, so I studied Iowa Valley's bit catalog and seeing what Leia says she saw--the different position of the joints of the 'link', which I believe should be more comfortable for the horse, the better construction of the 'bean' and entire mouthpiece(the german silver), so ordered it in a 4 1/2" width(which is what his mouth measured, using the 'pencil' method)...and after some initial 'chewing' of it, he is so far seeming just fine with it. I would recommend it as one to try. Being copper alloy, the german silver does show some effects from being mouthed(chewed), but it does NOT seem soft as copper is, so this won't hurt the bit's usefulness. And yes, let the horse just 'wear' the bit when you are working around him...it takes some much longer to accept a bit than others.

I also heartily 'second' doing more regular ground driving/long lining with your horse. Almost nothing is as effective in advancing a horse's knowledge and compliance than REGULAR, consistent work...doesn't have to be LONG sessions, just regular, consistent, and knowledgeable. And--a cavesson would be fine, but please, don't make it TIGHT, thinking that will 'hold' the mouth shut. It will only cause more discomfort, and isn't a 'cure'. You should be able to put one or two fingers between it and his lower jaw

BTW-did your vet check for wolf teeth when he worked on your horse's teeth? If in place, they can cause discomfort for some horses. They are usually VERY tiny and may not be evident, lying RIGHT in front of the first lower premolars. My vet used to remove them when the horse was anesthetised for gelding; since your horse is a mature stallion, it's possible they have been overlooked when you got his teeth done, after his never having them done before. Just a thought....

Margo

 

[HorseMom]

Thanks everyone. I'm pretty sure that Tom checked for wolf teeth, but I'll have him check again to make sure. I've been looking at the Iowa Valley Carriage site but her bits don't come small enough. Jay needs a 3" bit. I made a mistake with our very first bit thinking that he needed a 3.5" bit, it was huge on him. It caused so many problems that I just took it off and haven't touched it since. Most of the sites that I've seen only go as small as a 3.5". I haven't been using a cavesson, so I'll get one to try it out.

 

[Sue_C.]

If you cannot find a 3" bit, you can try a 3.50" with the neoprene bit-guards...that worked for my 30" stallion when I started him. Over the years, he graduated to a regular 3.50", I think because the bits are soooo much better made now, and are more properly sized. You might find that a GOOD 3.50" might fit him.

 

[Fanch]

Your story sounds alot like my Duff man's story. I trained him to hitch myself and he sure was a handful when it came to bits. Alot like your guy, he started in a single-joint snaffle, but after a few months, and he had learnt his job concerning the bit and he started to head bob, avoid the bit, anything to get away from it. I then tried a mullen, thinking that the poke from the single joint in the middle of his mouth was bothering him, but I got the same results but even more drastic. Myself and my mentor came to the conclusion he had a very sensitive tounge. Hes a very sensitive horse by nature, very extroverted, and like your guy, figgity and mouthly(Duffy does the same thing with the leadline when hes tied

Anyways, this meant that he couldn't stand to feel pressure on his tounge, he would happily carry any bit, but as soon as I took up the reins, he reacted in a negative fashion. I was lucky enough to find a solution, in the form of a myler low port bit. I was talking to a dealer near by and she had a bit that had been returned and cleaned. She said that I could take it for a test drive and if I didn't like it I could send it back or I could buy if for a bit cheaper than normal. This particular bit curves in such a way that he feels very little pressure, and is still driving happily in this bit. In the future as he progresses in driving I may have to get a highport myler as he may get to the point he can take NO toung pressure, but hopefully not.

I know these particular bits are expessive, so how about trying to find someone near by that could lend you a bit you wish to try? And I also am not saying this particula bit may fix your problems, but wanted to put the idea of tonuge pressure out there, as it is a main problem concerning bits.

This may help a little more on this particular issue: this is a list of issues that may arise when there is a tounge pressure problem:

1) Horses that open their mouths when ridden or driven

2) Horses that have an over-active mouth (drooling or chewing)

3) Horses that get a tongue over the bit

4) Horses that drop behind the vertical (over bent)

5) Horses that are always above the bit and travel hollow

6) Horses that hang or loll the tongue outside of the mouth

7) Horses that have too much foam (lack of swallowing)

8) Horses that root or snatch the reins out of your hands

9) Horses that drop shoulders in corners

10) Horse that drift away from pressure to one side or other

11) Horses that bob their heads while moving

Hope this helps and that you find the solution soon, I know how frustrating it can be!!

 

[HorseMom]

If you cannot find a 3" bit, you can try a 3.50" with the neoprene bit-guards...that worked for my 30" stallion when I started him. Over the years, he graduated to a regular 3.50", I think because the bits are soooo much better made now, and are more properly sized. You might find that a GOOD 3.50" might fit him.

Thanks, I'll have to try that. I think I'll change things little by little so I can see exactly what the problem is. The Myler bits seem to come in 3" but I don't want to play the guessing game with that kind of money. I bought my current bit, half check mullen mouth snaffle from Schniders, they were one of the few places that had 3", but they just don't have a large variety.

Thanks, Pagie. I switched to the mullen mouth for that very reason. Jay improved after the switch, just not enough.

 

[Fanch]

How long have you been driving him in the mullen??

On thing to note is that it takes time for a horse to ajust to a new bit. As I've heard "It takes time to tell if a horse likes a bit, but it takes just a moment to know if he doesn't"

My mentor told me once that she had a morgan that would literally choke on his own tounge trying to get away from the bit. When she finally found a bit that got the pressure off his tounge, she noticed a difference, but only slightly. It took over a year for the horse to finally be able to relax and know that the bit wouldn't hurt him.

If you did notice a slight positive difference with the mullen, give it some time.