Colic/Respiratory Infection/Colitis

[Andaloosa]

Howdy all,

I just thought I'd write out what has been going on with my 11 year old mini mare and see if there were any encouraging words and/or suggestions available.

Oct. 28th - I took my mini mare, Foxy and her huge "surprise" colt (see this post)

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=129441&hl=

to my carriage horse trainer 3 hours away, so I could make sure that the cart and harness I got with Foxy when I bought her was the right size and adjusted properly. They stayed in a round pen and ate grass (they have no grass at my house, but get a set measured amount of alfalfa) and drank water out of a bucket that was already there (never going to allow that again).

Oct. 29th - started weaning colt (separated for entire day, but back together at night because Tractor Supply was out of horse panels and had nowhere to put them, but back together)

Oct. 31st - Foxy started having loose stool (soft, formed)

Nov. 1st - Foxy started acting uncomfortable, but was still eating/drinking - though not as voraciously as normal. Poop soft, formed.

Nov. 2nd - Foxy still eating/pooping, but also pawing at ground and laying down/getting up like she's in pain. I called the vet and he told me how much Banamine injectable to give her IM (my 20yo OTTB used to colic a lot, so I had a bottle on hand). Her heart rate, respiratory rate and temp were all normal.

Nov. 3rd - no improvement, so over the phone, the vet instructed me to keep her on the Banamine every 8 hours. She was still eating/pooping, but also acting uncomfortable.

Nov. 4th, 6pm - heart rate: 48 bpm, resp rate: 92 bpm, temp 103.6 degrees F - Vet came out on emergency call. He diagnosed her with a respiratory infection and colic, but couldn't say which one came first. Did on-site bloodwork, which showed all normal except for muscle enzymes, basically showing that she had been colicing a while. He gave IM inj of antibiotic called Exceed and left me with one to give Nov. 9th if she responded to it. He told me to order Bio-Sponge and get it overnighted to start ASAP. He also told me to nix the weaning since she didn't need any added stress. Gave me Banamine paste to give her - wants her only to get the minimum amounts so it can bind with toxins produced by colic in gut.

Nov. 5th - still eating off/on, still laying down off/on and some mild rolling. Poop had turned to liquid. Vitals all normal.

Nov. 6th - started Bio-Sponge. No real change in anything. Vitals normal.

Nov. 7th - vet had me decrease Banamine paste from every 8 hrs to every 12. He said she probably has colitis and/or salmonella. Still giving Bio-Sponge every 4 hrs. She's still eating and produced a small amount of solid, though very soft poop along with her watery green diarrhea. Noticed sand in the solid part, so vet asked me to start her on Psyllium. Foxy was very excited to be getting "grain"!

Nov. 8th (today) - no change in anything until around 10am, she actually nickered at me as I walked around the corner to her stall - probably wondering where her "grain" is. I'm having the vet come out again, just because I am nervous that this has gone on so long.

Sorry for this being so long. Thanks for reading. Here are two photos I took of Foxy and her colt (who will be 6 months old Nov. 12th - he's the one that looks like a haflinger) today, just before making this post. The light spots on her hips are where she rubbed the hair off since she was laying down/rolling. They seem to be healing, which tells me she's not as uncomfortable as she was.

 

[disneyhorse]

Maybe being so underweight and the stress of pregnancy/foaling/lactating contributed to her issues?

 

[Charlotte]

I sure don't have any idea what the problem is, but with all of the banamine she had I would want her on ulcer meds too. Maybe ask your vet about that. It sounds like she has been treated about like our vet would have for those symptoms. I hope she continues to improve.

 

[JAX]

I second the idea of using ulcer meds on her. My vet says any NSAID given more than twice needs to have ulcer prevention along with it. Regardless I sure hope she is feeling better very very soon.

 

[Jean_B]

Your mare is quite underweight, and coupled with the stress of feeding that big foal, the long drive and all that banamine, she needs to get her gutt back in balance. I've always used Gastro Guard and a probiotic.

Ask your vet if Metronidazole (not sure of spelling but it is the equivalent of Flagyl) would be in order. I had a mare with unexplained explosive diahrea every time she settle in foal for about 4 months. They ran every test conceivable and could find no cause - and this stuff worked like a charm (had to grind it up in a coffee grinder and then turn it into a paste using pancake syrup because this stuff is NASTY tasting). It's also the same stuff my doc put me on for a drug-induced colitis after all the meds I had been on after a ruptured appendix....and it worked.

 

[wildoak]

Sorry you are having problems...Colitis and salmonella are nothing to mess around with. Is the foal still ok? Something else you might try, or at least run past your vet, is Stomach Soother. I hadn't discovered it last time I had a horse that sick, but I've used it on lots of issues since with pretty good success. It's all natural papaya pulp, would help with the ulcer prevention as well. I know it's a drive for you, but I just got 4 bottles not long ago and would be happy to share with you if you wanted it asap. Let me know if I can help..

Jan

 

[wildoak]

Robin, how is your mare doing?

Jan

 

[Andaloosa]

Maybe being so underweight and the stress of pregnancy/foaling/lactating contributed to her issues?

Maybe, but she had been doing really well since she had the colt in May and my vet said I was doing a good job of helping her maintain the weight she did have while she had that monster of a baby.

 

[Andaloosa]

I sure don't have any idea what the problem is, but with all of the banamine she had I would want her on ulcer meds too. Maybe ask your vet about that. It sounds like she has been treated about like our vet would have for those symptoms. I hope she continues to improve.

I asked about ulcer meds, but instead my vet wanted me to stop the Banamine since he didn't like how much she was getting (since this has been going on so long). I'm going to get some though since it seems like she starts getting pretty painful in the evenings. I've given her a Banamine IM inj the last two nights (since the vet asked me to stop - he did tell me I could give it if she started acting worse).

 

[Andaloosa]

Ask your vet if Metronidazole (not sure of spelling but it is the equivalent of Flagyl) would be in order. I had a mare with unexplained explosive diahrea every time she settle in foal for about 4 months. They ran every test conceivable and could find no cause - and this stuff worked like a charm (had to grind it up in a coffee grinder and then turn it into a paste using pancake syrup because this stuff is NASTY tasting). It's also the same stuff my doc put me on for a drug-induced colitis after all the meds I had been on after a ruptured appendix....and it worked.

I didn't ask about the Metronidazole because even though she was having diarrhea, it wasn't frequent, and we were just happy that she was still pooping.

 

[Andaloosa]

Robin, how is your mare doing?

Jan

Thanks for asking. I will try to make my response more concise than my original post.

In a nutshell, she's about the same.

I had the vet come out on Thursday evening and he looked her over and said that she's basically not doing that bad - except that its been going on for so long. We talked about the possibility of hospitalizing her, but I can't really afford all the diagnostic tests they want to do in order to figure out what exactly is going on - mainly since we just did some major house construction.

A friend of mine is going to school to become an equine osteopath and her teacher is Dr. Groves from here:

http://www.thewholehorse.com/index.html

My friend suggested I call Dr. Groves and I did. Dr. Groves recommended KLPP (http://www.kamanimalservices.com/Horse-supplements/KLPP.php) - supposed to be much better than just a probiotic

As well as some homeopathic liquids (Aloe Socotrina & Pyrogenium)

I did drive a 3 hour round trip last night (Friday) so I could pick up the medication and get it into Foxy sooner than later.

What I'm doing now is:

Bio-Sponge & Pyrogenium every 6 hours

Aloe Socotrina every 4 hours

KLPP every 8 hours

Today was the first day Foxy had some actual solid feces. It wasn't as much as a normal poop, but probably about half as much. I actually jumped for joy, but then told myself not to get my hopes up too high. I took pictures of it and sent it to most of my friends and family that know what is going on. I just keep telling them, "Pray for poop!"

To rewind a few days, my vet said he's not really worried about Salmonella now because with Salmonella, the horse is having almost non-stop diarrhea. Foxy was having diarrhea only once or twice a day and no other BMs.

My three other horses (none of which I can separate Foxy from, since the pasture is right off the stalls and my stalls are very open) are all peachy. Two had soft stool one night and then were back to normal.

And yes, I know Foxy is thin. Not by my choice, I assure everyone.

Thanks again for reading.

Robin

 

[bevann]

Ask your vet about pumpkin for loose stools.I have used it several times and it worked for me.I have also used plain yogurt to get the digestive trac back in sync.get the kind with acidophilis check the label.Keep us posted on her progress.I have also used aloe vera juice 6cc 2 times daily orally as a stomach soother.

 

[wildoak]

Glad to hear she's at least holding her own. I haven't used Dr Groves, way too far from me, but I've always heard good things about her.

Jan

 

[2minis4us]

IMO you should be treating for ulcers !!!!! Ulcer Guard Paste and U Gard Pellets. My filly got really sick and we almost lost her due to ulcers.

 

[Andaloosa]

Today's update is:

She's drinking, eating some, peeing and pooping. The poop is mostly like cow patty consistency. I'm not concerned right now about firming up her stool, I'm just glad she's pooping. I do think she had at least a partial blockage - maybe it was the large intestinal swelling (colitis) that was preventing everything from coming through, I don't know. I do know that she does seem to be a whole heck of a lot more comfortable. She's laying down and resting a lot. She probably couldn't get much rest, being so uncomfortable. Saturday night, she was doing some laying down and rolling to a 45° on her back and holding it. Every time she did, I could hear (from about 4 feet away) liquid just sloshing around inside her. It sounded awful. I'm so glad she seems to be moving past this.

She has lost more weight and I know it's going to be a long road getting her back into good condition. I'm in no hurry and she won't be the first horse I've put healthy weight on.

I've been letting her colt out to burn off some steam, mainly because he wasn't letting her rest. They don't even really care that they are separated. In fact, yesterday when I opened the gate to let him back in the stall (stall is right off the pasture), Foxy ran out and Curio still ran in the stall so he could eat her hay. He thinks my Standardbred/Draft mare is his mom and sometimes I think she does too. I think Foxy just enjoys the break.

Thanks for reading,

Robin

 

[wildoak]

If I read that right and she was laying on her back, that's a pretty good indication of ulcers.. glad things are looking better though!

Jan

 

[albahurst]

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of treating for ulcers....laying on the back and holding it is absolutely a sign of ulcers! She may or may not even have bleeding ulcers. Has your vet done any blood work lately? Bleeding ulcers will show up in blood work with an elevated BUN. I encourage you to get to treating for ulcers asap! I think you will be glad you did!

 

[Lewella]

Stress of hauling, stress from staring weaning, loose stools - my first action would be to put her on ulcer meds! Banamine isn't as bad as bute on a horse with ulcers but it doesn't help the situation that's for sure - just masks it. The aloe and bio sponge along with the probiotic are probably helping but like everyone else has said lying on the back is a classic sigh of gastric ulcers and they are nothing to mess with. Getting the ulcers healed will help her gain weight as well.

 

[Andaloosa]

I actually took a photo of how she was laying so I could show people. I'll include it below.

She isn't laying like this anymore - not since all the bloating she had has gone away, but I've got ulcer meds on the way.

Her appetite has picked up and she's still pooping cow patty poop, but I figure it'll be a while before she gets normal stool. She's still having a lot of gas come out when she poops, so I assume this is still all the stuff she had backed up inside.

Her attitude is getting back to normal since she tried escaping from me when I went to put her halter on.

She's been wanting to go out into the pasture and when I let her out to see what she's going to do, she hurries over to where my Thoroughbred eats and starts eating dirt & rocks. Needless to say, I bring her right back to her stall, but any idea what that sort of behavior could mean? I was thinking about picking her up a Redmond Rock to chew on, but don't want to upset her stomach again.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have read all of this thread; agree FULLY with others advising to treat for ulcers! PLEASE do so; proper dosing/timing of administration of ulcer meds will not hurt her if she doesn't have them, but could prove invaluable in saving her if she does(and from what you have described, I STRONGLY feel she does; frequent use of banamine ALONE might well cause ulcers; it is well-recognized as a leading cause, and when you have, or are, using it daily/frequently, it is IMO imperative to also use meds that will help to protect against ulcers at the same time!

You can use the less expensive 'Ulcerguard' at the DOSAGE of 'Gastroguard'; they are the same thing, just packaged/presented differently. Carafate, aka sucralfate, can also be useful; just be sure you find out the proper timing of administering each for them to work effectively.Any competent equine vet should be able to outline this for you.

I unfortunately have personal experience in dealing with ulcers, and urge you to read up on proper approaches to effective treatment. There are other management tools in addition to meds that can be of great benefit in helping your horse. It is clear how much you care for and want to help her; please consider using every possible recognized approach to do so. Best wishes,

Margo