Color/Genetics experts....

[susanminiponygirl]

Okay, I am in love with the sabinos! Is the gene testing done from a hair follicle or a blood test? I would like to have my bay stallion tested. He looks like a solid bay, but has a slight roan star and some roaning over the hips. He recently sired a sabino colt off a black sabino mare. Does it take two sabino parents or is one sabino parent sufficent?

 

[Bunnylady]

It is my understanding from rereading the genetic study results that there are more than one gene believed to be involved. I have a busy day here today, but I will type out some of the passages from the final submitted scientific paper that explains their findings. The scientific paper is 15 pages long. So I will only share a few excerpts.

Wow, 15 pages! And probably written in Sciencespeak, the polysyllabic language of the over-educated that even their contemporaries find tough going. I know, there are times when only a big word will do the job, but I think they see putting their thoughts on paper as a chance to flex their vocabularies. Perhaps they hope that their command of the language at least infers command of their subject matter. Trust me, they don't talk like that in "real life!" I can read that stuff, and understand it, but I always do so with a sneaking suspicion that the author is just showing off!

I salute you for having voluntarily waded through it more than once!

 

[Joanne]

I have done some research and I think the best way to get you the information in a format you can understand is to give you the link to The Paint Horse Journal article from August 2007. There is the bonus of many sabino photos.

[SIZE=12pt]In that article (which includes photos) on page 65, Samantha Brooks states:[/SIZE]

"There are many genes that cause patterns that are commonly described as sabino, at least five patterns that I have seen. All of these have fundamentally genetic causes, potentially different genes, so you really have to specify. It's correct to say the sabino (sb1) gene, or the sabino genes."

Here is the link:

Paint Horse Journal Sabino Article

One other point that we have not touched on is that there are homozygous sabinos (sb1/sb1) that are born totally white or nearly white. These are not like the lethal white frame overos, and they live normal lives. If a solid white or nearly white foal is born you should not automatically give it a death sentence and have it euthenized. Scientifically knowing (by having testing done when it is avialable) can help the breeders interested in producing pinto color in their herd. These homozygous sabinos will always pass on the particular sabino trait they carry.

 

[Joanne]

To susanminiponygirl:

You can test your horses at Animal Genetics in Florida. You just need a hair sample. Here is their link:

Animal Genetics Sabino 1 Testing

 

[Songcatcher]

Excellent article Joanne. I enjoyed reading it.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

Thank you, Joanne, I have downloaded the submission form. I was never a pinto person until I saw the sabinos, and now I am hooked. I have a few mares and am just in love with them, especially my Van Los Paleface girls!

 

[Bunnylady]

I agree. Very informative link, and in language any layman can understand!

The article stated that there has been no link established between SB1 and deafness. I have heard, however, that there is a Paint stallion that has sired several offspring that appear to be maximum sabino, and it isn't uncommon for his foals to also be deaf. I imagine his line could be useful in determining whether there may be a link between deafness and another type of sabino, assuming he's something other than SB1, of course.

I see that irregular edges on the spots is a characteristic of the SB1 gene. I know of a Paint mare with edges so irregular, it almost looks like lace! I'm guessing she is most likely carrying the SB1 gene. I understand SB1 is supposed to be common in minis, but I don't think I've ever seen a pinto mini with edges like these. Does anybody have any pictures of minis with irregular edges to their spots?

 

[Joanne]

I already showed this mare in this post, but here she is with both sides, and a close up of her head.

Why don't you post the photo of the paint mare?

By the way susanminiponygirl, this is a Van Los Paleface daughter that I own ! Her name is Van Los Angel in Calico. I could look at her all day long and never tire of it. She is, as they say, easy on the eyes

 

[midnight star stables]

How many types of Sabinos are there thought to be?

I fully believe that this gelding does carry Sabino, however I do not feel that it is type 1. Does anyone want to conform/disagree with my thoughts?

 

[midnight star stables]

Bigger leg picture:

 

[susanminiponygirl]

Joanne-that is one beautiful mare. I saw that PaleFace was for sale a few months back. I would have loved to have him, but we are trying so hard to cut numbers. It just drives me crazy that he is out there tho.

 

[Joanne]

Desiree The tear drop as well as the leg markings are suspicious of sabino.

The rectangular patch on his muzzle is an indicator of LWO. Have you tested him for that??

 

[Willow Tree Miniatures]

THANKS TO JOANNE OF PACIFIC PINTOS FOR ALL OF HER GENEROUS INFORMATION. I APPRECIATE HER CORDIAL CORRESPONDENCE. THIS IS MY EXAMPLE OF A BLUE EYED SABIN0 FILLY.

 

[Joanne]

At Angela's request I am posting this. This is Angela's mare viewed larger. Angela is new to posting on the forum, especially posting photos.

This mare appears to be carrying several sabino genes. She also has Rowdy in her background and may carry Frame (LWO) as well. This is a beautiful mare with an exceptional pedigree. She is a two year old now. I certainly will be waiting to see what she foals in 2011!

 

[Willow Tree Miniatures]

Hats off to Joanne for helping the newbie!

 

[attwoode]

Thanks everyone for posting on this thread! Joanne, you've really kept this one lively. I'm glad there was someone on the forum with knowledge and passion for this topic.

 

[midnight star stables]

Desiree The tear drop as well as the leg markings are suspicious of sabino.
The rectangular patch on his muzzle is an indicator of LWO. Have you tested him for that??

Thanks for your reply.

He has multiple sabino markings all over his body, similar to what was shown on his legs. Would that be SB1 or another strand of Sabino you think?

How many Sabino types are there thought to be??

Actually, I think his face marking is more likely splash. Originally I hoped it was frame, but I doubt it. His sire was LWO+ however I do not feel that Donovan is a carrier.

I did not, and likely won't test Donovan for LWO as he is a gelding. Outside of my own curiosity, I don't see the need to spend the extra money if I can help it. Saving up for college

 

[Joanne]

I posted this yesterday, but I am repeating it for you Desiree. I do not think your gelding would test sb1 positive.

As you pointed out there is no need to test a gelding.

In that article (which includes photos) on page 65, Samantha Brooks states:

"There are many genes that cause patterns that are commonly described as sabino, at least five patterns that I have seen. All of these have fundamentally genetic causes, potentially different genes, so you really have to specify. It's correct to say the sabino (sb1) gene, or the sabino genes"

 

[midnight star stables]

I must have missed that earlier, however thank you for again pointing it out!

I am faun of Frame and Sabino, so It's nice to see that there is so much variety where Sabino is involved.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is obviously no reason why an animal that is obviously Sabino cannot have blue eyes...the point about Sabinos with blue eyes is that this is believed to be caused by another pattern, and in that filly in particular, Splash or Frame could be present without it showing.

I think Sabino has always been thought to be polygenous??

Certainly this is what I have always believed, especially since Clydesdales, which are H/Z for Sabino, test negative for Sab1.