Color Question

[StarRidgeAcres]

I think my brain is dead because I know I should know the answer to this.

Iif a horse has one visually black parent (a parent known to have had red-based foals) and one red parent, visually palomino, how did their foal end up black? I was thinking if there were two copies of red invoved, the horse had to be red-based.

 

[kayla221444]

The Parent that carries both red and black gene, must have passed on her black base, to the foal..and the foal must be a carrier Ee.

 

[bannerminis]

Black is dominant over red. The red based horse will always pass 1 of its 2 red genes. The visually black horse carries (going by what you said) 1 black and 1 red and as black is dominant over red you have a higher chance of a black based foal but of course there is also the chance of a red based foal too.

I bred my buckskin stallion (1 cream, Agouti, Red and black gene) to a Chestnut mare and they produced a Buckskin colt.

I have a Stallion (avatar) out of a Silver Bay mare by a Buckskin Stallion and he is Chestnut with Flaxen, Homozygous for Agouti and Hetrozygous for Silver so he will never have a black foal as he will always pass the Agouti gene so while it may be black based (depending on the mare) it can only be Bay, Silver Bay, Buckskin, Silver Buckskin or Chestnut (with 1 copy of Agouti and a 50/50 chance of Silver)

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

For some reason I was thinking red was dominant. Don't know where I got that.

So the visually black foal carries both red and black, right?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[REO]

Yup. The black parent that also carries red, put the black gene in there.

A parent that is black but carries both black and red will not always have black foals. Black is dominant but it depends on which color gene gets used in that mating and who it is mated with.

I always look at it like a slot machine. Breeding two together=pulling the handle. All the genes go spinning and whatever combo it ends up when it stops spinning click-click-click, is what you get!

If a horse is red (sorrel etc) it's homozygous for red. That's where you got that idea.

I'm sure your foal carries both red & black

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Very interesting. So the foal (hopefully

) that Raven has with Velvet could actually be sorrel! That's too funny! I don't think that should be allowed.

I'm going to write up a rule change!

 

[JAX]

The Red parent can only throw a red gene. The black parent because it carries both red and black can throw either one. There is not a higher chance of a red foal or of a black foal. The chances are 50/50 between red or black... unless you start adding other modifiers of course!!

Speaking of modifiers...if the one parent is a palomino maybe the foal is a smokey black?? 50% chance of that as well.

 

[REO]

I see a little black foal in your future!

 

[minimomNC]

Velvet carries the dilute gene too, so she could have a smokey black, palomino or buckskin or since her dam is also palomino she could be smokey black herself and have a double dilute. Should be exciting.

 

[Riverrose28]

Black Velvet does carry the double dilute gene, I own one of his grand sons, and he has thrown several dilute blacks, two non fading blacks and three palominos. when bred to sorrel or chestnut you get the best palominos from his offspring. Not a lot of smut marks.

 

[Songcatcher]

Black Velvet does carry the double dilute gene, I own one of his grand sons, and he has thrown several dilute blacks, two non fading blacks and three palominos. when bred to sorrel or chestnut you get the best palominos from his offspring. Not a lot of smut marks.

If we are talking about Little Kings Black Velvet, he only has a single Cream (Dilute) gene. If he were a double dilute, he would be a Smokey Cream.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Velvet carries the dilute gene too, so she could have a smokey black, palomino or buckskin or since her dam is also palomino she could be smokey black herself and have a double dilute. Should be exciting.

I had NO idea about this. How exciting! I've spent so much time researching his foals (conformation and win records) but I never paid ANY attention to their color. How funny. Thanks for the education Karen!

Black Velvet does carry the double dilute gene, I own one of his grand sons, and he has thrown several dilute blacks, two non fading blacks and three palominos. when bred to sorrel or chestnut you get the best palominos from his offspring. Not a lot of smut marks.

Again, had NO idea about him carrying creme (although I think It's just one copy, not two. Thanks!

If we are talking about Little Kings Black Velvet, he only has a single Cream (Dilute) gene. If he were a double dilute, he would be a Smokey Cream.

We are. And yes, you're right.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I see a little black foal in your future!

Thanks Robin. Although it really doesn't matter in the big scheme, I hope you're right.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Or you could just breed her to a perlino stallion who is homozygous for everything and get a buckskin baby! LOL!!!

I too see her having a black foal.

No matter the color, her foal is gonna be AWESOME!

 

[Riverrose28]

I opened my mouth last night and inserted my foot. I have never seen Velvets DNA results, so I should have stated I think he carries a double dilute gene. Resaon being I own one of his grandsons and he does. It was a selling point when we bought him that he can throw palomino and cremello, and he is smokey black. So far only black and palomino on my end.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I opened my mouth last night and inserted my foot. I have never seen Velvets DNA results, so I should have stated I think he carries a double dilute gene. Resaon being I own one of his grandsons and he does. It was a selling point when we bought him that he can throw palomino and cremello, and he is smokey black. So far only black and palomino on my end.

Just so you know for the future, double dilute horses got one copy of creme from each parent. So it just means that your horse's dam was also a carrier of one copy. I'm assuming you are stating your Velvet son/daughter is a cremello? If so, yep, one copy from each parent!

Sorry, just re-read. Your smokey black colt COULD produce a cremello in the future IF bred to a mare that also carries creme!

A smokey black horse is like a buckskin, palomino, etc., they carry one copy. Put two together and you MAY get a double dilute.