Colt with strange colic symptoms

[txminipinto]

Just an interesting piece of information that some might now know.......alfalfa hay helps decrease the risk of ulcers. Probably why I don't have much personal experience with ulcers per se.

 

[~Lisa~]

Yes it does thanks for mentioning this Carin. So many want to believe it is not a proper horse feed and not for miniatures especially. I have found the opposite to be true

 

[MiLo Minis]

I have never fed alfalfa to horses as we have very good quality grass hay here and I have never had any trouble with ulcers either. I feed plenty of hay and I give it to them first. They get their grain a couple hours later when there is still hay in the stall but they are full on it and don't gobble their grain. I think part of it may be that when hay is given at the same time as grain the horses tend to eat the grain first and gobble it all down because they are hungry after the night and then nibble on their hay. The old rule: water, hay, grain comes into play.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Glad to hear the youngster is doing better! Like all the others, your post 'screamed' "ULCERS" to me as I read it!

I've had very good results from a 30 to 45 day regime of ranitadine, a generous dose every 8 hours(i.e., I used 8-75 mg. tabs last year for my then-12 YO gelding who is a confirmed cribber.)Crushed tabs, mixed with a little watery applesauce or watered-down molasses, in a dose syringe(because the ranitadine is VERY bitter). I have used ranitidine, very reasonably-priced at Sam's Club, for several different horses over the years.)

Alfalfa DOES have something of a 'buffering' effect. I have no doubt you can 'do without' it in your feed program, but it shouldn't be FEARED as part of a proper feeding program. I have fed alfalfa to literally EVERY horse I've ever owned, in 54 continuous years of owning and giving fulltime care to, my own. Yes, I do now, and for some years have fed some of EACH--alfalfa AND grass hay--but would NEVER 'quit' the alfalfa. KEY is proper quality AND good management of when and how much to feed --you should NOT 'freefeed' alfalfa, and the quality must be high, yet not overly 'rich', for feeding to horses. Nutritionally, quality alfalfa provides more than about any other hay product.

I certainly agree with 'water before feeding', and with HAY first, then later,any concentrates, AFTER the horse has had the 'edge' taken off its hunger via the hay. When traveling, or anytime I'm not sure if a horse has taken water as it should, I will give only a MODEST amount of hay,and NO concentrates, until I KNOW the horse has drunk--THEN it will get the 'rest' of its hay!

Margo

 

[Miniv]

Well........You sure got enough people telling you what I was going to say....coming in late on this.

Yep. Ulcers.

We've only had ONE case in coming on 20 years..... My guess would be for us -- the KISS method, for one. (Keep It Simple) and we feed good grass hay to start with.

Here's another tidbit.......We grain AFTER we've served the Hay. Years ago, a long time trainer and breeder told us to provide the Hay FIRST. That it was easier on the horses' stomach. We've always seemed to do that, just with the way we manage our feeding. Perhaps there is something to that........

 

[wildoak]

Glad you got the answer - many times lol - to your problem and hope the colt is on the mend.

I've always hayed first too, but have read conflicting research about that, some saying that you don't want a load of grain sitting on top of a belly full of hay.......

Some of the ulcer studies tested both stalled and pastured horses on and off alfalfa. Even the horses out on grass had a lower incidence of ulcers when they were fed alfalfa. You don't typically think of horses turned out to pasture 24/7 having ulcers, but the numbers (which I can't remember well enough to quote) were surprisingly high.

Jan

 

[MiLo Minis]

I could see a pastured horse having ulcers if it was in a group of horses and it was constantly being harassed. I always keep an eye on the weight of the horses in my pastures to be sure that everyone is getting their fair share and that no one is being constantly chased off. If it lasts longer than a couple days when introducing a new horse then I separate them into smaller groups so that horse can find a buddy.

Tonight, after Custer's first day on ulcer meds and no banamine, Sue and I sat and enjoyed a glass of wine while watching Custer playing with his buddy looking quite fit and feisty. He is back to his old self already! We commented on how bizarre it was to think that only yesterday Sue was having to contemplate having him put down.

 

[Sunny]

I have two comments! TREAT THIS COLT FOR ULCERS!

The second comment.... tell them to find a REAL VET! OOPS! Maybe that should be my first comment!

(OH MY! Maybe I need my caffeine, but for pete's sake, is the vet blind, deaf with an IQ of 2? Euthanasia or surgery? Come on!!!

Robin

Lori, I'm glad the colt is feeling better now.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing that Robin so eloquently expressed! It just kills me that 20 people on the forum, who haven't even seen the colt, know what the problem is immediately, but this "vet" wants to cut him or kill him. Unbelievable!

I'm usually not a big fan of presenting and discussing symptoms on the forum, but it sure worked out well this time! I'm happy for all of you, especially Custer.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Glad he is feeling better. I wish there was one thing that caused an ulcer then we would avoid it but one never knows what will spawn them. Thera was 4 had been here since she was born, nothing changed, but when I found her feet up I knew the trouble. Sigh, minis gotta love em.

 

[~Lisa~]

Most of the studies I have read said that a huge percentage of babies(some said up to 70 percent)get ulcers during the weaning process. Once they have them they of course can always flair up so I think that would explain why pasture, stalled, show or pleasure horses can all have ulcers.

Made perfect sense to me weaning is very stressful for them and I think while most of us hate it we forget how truly tramuatic it can be for babies. Especially those that are weaned early like 2-3 months or so- when they may be nutritonially ready but perhaps not so much emotionally

 

[MiLo Minis]

Lori, I'm glad the colt is feeling better now.
I was thinking pretty much the same thing that Robin so eloquently expressed! It just kills me that 20 people on the forum, who haven't even seen the colt, know what the problem is immediately, but this "vet" wants to cut him or kill him. Unbelievable!

I'm usually not a big fan of presenting and discussing symptoms on the forum, but it sure worked out well this time! I'm happy for all of you, especially Custer.

Thanks Judy! I have to say that I would ordinarily agree with you that discussing serious symptoms on the forum here rather than calling a vet is not the thing to do but in this case when the vet was called and I was in total disagreement with him I brought it here basically in desperation

The hilarious thing is that when I gave Sue the forum opinion she called him to ask if it could be ulcers and could she get some medication to try. He said "I've been mulling it over and it could possibly be ulcers so it's worth a shot" YEAH RIGHT! Why the heck was he not immediately on the phone to the distraught horse owner that he had just told must euthanize her horse if he had ANY other ideas???

When Sue and I talked over what could possibly have stressed him out enough to cause an ulcer, one of the things was that he has never been alone and Sue just recently started bringing him into the barn to be stalled separately for fitting to show. He was with his mom here, he was weaned when he went to Sue's place and was put in with a colt his age there who has been his companion ever since. Who really knows but I sure am glad that enough forum members have experienced this previously to be able to give their advice!!! AND that it worked out so well!!!!!

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

So glad the colt is doing better.

 

[attwoode]

When Sue and I talked over what could possibly have stressed him out enough to cause an ulcer, one of the things was that he has never been alone and Sue just recently started bringing him into the barn to be stalled separately for fitting to show.

Restricting his feed for conditioning could also have caused this and would be made worse by the stress of separation.

 

[bevann]

IMO Many years ago when I was breeding German shepherds and Pembroke Welsh Corgis some of my most valuable information and solutions to problems came from other breeders.Vets have lots of good knowledge and it is invaluable, but many times they are not breeders or even horse owners themselves.I have gained lots of very good info from this web site even after having horses for almost 60 years and breeding Miniatures for 20 years.Glad your little guy is doing better.

 

[Sunny]

Some years ago, I knew some people with Standardbreds who had a colt and a filly that were born just days apart. They were together constantly, even after they were weaned. The time eventually came for the two of them to be separated and the filly was sent off for training. The poor colt just pined for his friend, went off his feed, and died not long after. It was as if he died of a "broken heart", but the post mortem showed that it was ulcers that caused his death. It was terribly sad situation!

Anyway, I'm just glad that Sue's colt is on the mend!

 

[albahurst]

I might add that if this little colt is having ulcers from this stress, and is being fitted for show, he may continue to have issues off and on even though he has been treated- but there is a plan

Our little show mare got over her ulcers only to have them flair right back up with going to a show. We even had her on Gastro Gard while at a show. So, our vet has highly recommended that we use a product called Neigh Lox every day for any horses that are being fitted and are being shown. We do the Neigh Lox and also we add the Gastro Gard while at a show and we have had no further problems. I also use it for horses that are being stressed in any way- like being weaned, or being shipped.

Just a suggestion to use Neigh Lox routinely as a preventive. It is cheaper than having to treat for ulcers for a month! lol The Neigh Lox is not a treatment for ulcers- just a preventive. You will still have to treat with the Gastro Gard x 4 weeks if ulcers are present.

Glad to hear the little guy is doing better.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I also think the change in feed for fitting was partially responsible and we did discuss all that and a few other things as well. Sue is making a few more changes now but hopefully it will be for the better!

The vet gave us 25 days or 3 weeks and 1 day worth of the ulcer med, do you think he should have another 6 days worth to be safe?

Albahurst, this Neigh Lox, can you tell me what is the main ingredient in case we can't get it here, perhaps we can find a similiar product to use as a preventative. I am also concerned that he could have further issues.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

I have a funny story to tell.

I agree with Bevann that your most valuable information comes from other breeders many times.

I had a mini foal once that was premie and ended up at at major horse hospital with a very good reputatation. It will remain nameless.

I MUST add that they did a GREAT JOB and SAVED this filly and I am extremely grateful. I love them to pieces. They have saved horses for me that I didn't think would be saved.

That said.....

One day when she was getting better, they called me in a panic.

"I am sorry to say that your filly is having new problems"

"She is becoming unconscious every time someone goes to give her a treatment or handle her."

" We think she might have Hydrocephalus and think she needs a Cat Scan and an MRI"

They were gracious enough to add that since they had never seen this before, that they would cover the costs of the tests( I would have to pay for anesthesia)

My reply......

I told them all about fainting foals(minis) and that it wasn't uncommon, not to worry and that they grow out of it.It most likely has more to do with an imature nervous system. I refused the testing, especially since she had been so fragile, I wouldn't want to give her anesthesia.

They were very surprised and had never heard of such a thing. Butnow they know!

I thought it was funny!

 

[Westwood Farms]

I am glad to hear the colt is better, too. I thought I had posted previously, LOL

Yes, ulcers. And my vet a lot of times just had me use maalox and pepto whenever there was a flair up on the mare I had. Both were used to coat the stomache. She finally quit with the ulcer thing, and we did not change anything here...