Conformation thread for MB Horses

[kaykay]

Just got off the phone with MBHOrses. She asked that I post some conformation stuff for her so here goes. Anyone with pics please feel free to add. Please keep in mind these are my opinions

Camped out behind heres a picture. Horses with this fault dont have as much power to pull as their back legs go out behind them. I would not breed a horse with this fault.

Coon Footed and Club Footed. In my opinion club footed is much worse fault then coon footed. I would not breed a club footed horse. In my opinion its very inherited

Here is a picture of a correct hind end on a horse. Notice the line comes off the rump and straight down the back hock. When looking at horses always try to imagine this line so you can see if the horse is correct

Gooserump a fairly common miniature horse fault. NOtice in the picture how the croup slopes instead of being nicely rounded.

sickle hocks. in my opinon too big of a fault to breed a horse with this

Over at the knee big fault and i would not breed a horse with this

 

[MBhorses]

HELLO KAY,

THANK FOR THE PHOTOS. PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO ME AS WELL.

THANKS MELISSA

 

[user 488]

HELLO KAY,

THANK FOR THE PHOTOS. PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO ME AS WELL.

THANKS MELISSA

You can copy and paste or right click your mouse (Save As) and save any pictures you need. Just for your information.

 

[tifflunn]

Love this thread- Can someone post pictures of necks the good the bad and the ???? :bgrin

 

[Leeana]

Really nice pics to show the faults!

While this thread is up one thing that i've always been curious about is the cow hock fault. When i look at horses even the show horses that win in the show ring it looks like there hocks go inward just a tad bit, is that considered cow hocked or are they supose to go in a bit? I have never completely understood that. They dont toe out or anything like that but there hocks go inward a bit, is this normal? Another thing i have trouble with is slope of the shoulder, i know Royal has a steep shoulder but i have allot of trouble looking at a horse and telling if its shoulder is angled right.

I *LOVE* these threads, i could talk confirmation for hours

. Some more things that some people may want to add is shoulders, necks tieing in good/high, good tailsets, balance, neck lenght ext.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

This site has all the leg faults alongside a correct leg -

Horse Conformation photos

You can also see all the other conformation pages - neck set, shoulder angles, etc.

This page has the whole horse using the actual point by point of the structure

Whole Horse

 

[chandab]

This site has all the leg faults alongside a correct leg -

Horse Conformation photos

Great site, thank you for posting.

Here's a link that has some information on conformation, including a drawing of several faults.

http://www.equiworld.net/conformation/index.htm

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Leeana, Thats because some of them that are winning ARE a tad cowhocked. I think that this and low necks are the most common faults in minis ...and ponies. It is somewhat acceptable in ARabians at least it was when I was showing them 100 years ago. When I have had horses a bit hocky I stood them split behind rather than square and it wasnt as noticeable. [/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

great information- always easier with this kind of thread to have some diagrams or pix- thanks for posting

Tammie

 

[kaykay]

heres a picture of tiny i used on the youth forum when we were talking conformation over there. This shows that she is balanced but doesnt have as much angle as I would like to her shoulder. The blue line is the correct angle I would like on her. See how the blue line ties into the withers?? The red line is where her shoulder actually lines up.

Mild cowhocks are imo the least of faults. It is desirable in some breeds such as draft horses. A lot of people say a bit of cowhock is good in a driving horse as they get up under themselves more. I have seen many MILDLY cowhocked horses win in halter. (not extreme cowhocks)

A proper back leg will face you when you look from behind. The hocks will not lean in tword each other.

Another thing you rarely hear people talk about is chests. miniature horses should have a chest!! when viewed from the front they shouldnt look like both front legs are coming out of a sweater. That is called narrow based. Soooo keep in mind a proper chest leads to a proper neck set. The neck should be ON TOP of the chest. I think crunch shows this well. see how his neck sits on top of the chest?? this is easier to see in taller horses

And heres bitsy. Even though she is tiny you can see the neck is on top of the chest

Here is a pic of an actual club foot

 

[runamuk]

Really nice pics to show the faults!

While this thread is up one thing that i've always been curious about is the cow hock fault. When i look at horses even the show horses that win in the show ring it looks like there hocks go inward just a tad bit, is that considered cow hocked or are they supose to go in a bit? I have never completely understood that. They dont toe out or anything like that but there hocks go inward a bit, is this normal? Another thing i have trouble with is slope of the shoulder, i know Royal has a steep shoulder but i have allot of trouble looking at a horse and telling if its shoulder is angled right.

I *LOVE* these threads, i could talk confirmation for hours

. Some more things that some people may want to add is shoulders, necks tieing in good/high, good tailsets, balance, neck lenght ext.

From a using standpoint I would take cowhocks over post leg's any day of the week.................slightly cowhocked actually often leads to better drive from behind.post legged will move in a very stilted manner (fine and expected for a chow chow dog :bgrin really ugly in a horse)....now if the hocks are rubbing that is a bit too extreme and not something that should be considered acceptable.......................

Also you will find every breeder has their own acceptable fault as there is no perfect horse (mini/pony/big) arabians often are a bit cowhocked and q-horses are often post legged it is also kinda a mini thing to be weak in the hip....it is all relative to the breed and what has been deemed acceptable (often by winning in the show ring)................one big difference is doing horses (performance) need to be able to hold up under use which rules out a few faults that lead to breakdown.post legged, low pasterns, bench/over knee come to mind all these are prone to arthritic conditions...............

just my opinion ...which ain't worth much

:

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

Kay Kay, Could you comment on Tiny's back legs for the ones who are learning about correct conformation. In the picture her fetlock is in line with her hock,But it appears there is no straight line from the rump to the hock. If that foot was placed under her instead of having her stretched out wouldn't she look sickle hocked?

heres a picture of tiny i used on the youth forum when we were talking conformation over there. This shows that she is balanced but doesnt have as much angle as I would like to her shoulder. The blue line is the correct angle I would like on her. See how the blue line ties into the withers?? The red line is where her shoulder actually lines up.

Mild cowhocks are imo the least of faults. It is desirable in some breeds such as draft horses. A lot of people say a bit of cowhock is good in a driving horse as they get up under themselves more. I have seen many MILDLY cowhocked horses win in halter. (not extreme cowhocks)

A proper back leg will face you when you look from behind. The hocks will not lean in tword each other.

Another thing you rarely hear people talk about is chests. miniature horses should have a chest!! when viewed from the front they shouldnt look like both front legs are coming out of a sweater. That is called narrow based. Soooo keep in mind a proper chest leads to a proper neck set. The neck should be ON TOP of the chest. I think crunch shows this well. see how his neck sits on top of the chest?? this is easier to see in taller horses

And heres bitsy. Even though she is tiny you can see the neck is on top of the chest

Here is a pic of an actual club foot

 

[Minimor]

Kay Kay, Could you comment on Tiny's back legs for the ones who are learning about correct conformation. In the picture her fetlock is in line with her hock,But it appears there is no straight line from the rump to the hock. If that foot was placed under her instead of having her stretched out wouldn't she look sickle hocked?

Not kaykay but I'll comment anyway--Even in the pose Tiny is pictured in above, if you lay a ruler along the back of her leg & up to her rump, it does intersect her rump--so no, Tiny isn't sickle hocked.

 

[kaykay]

thank you minimor

As you can see my friend took tiny in the ring and I feel he over stretched her. That is the bad part of over stretchign a horse you can make it look like there are faults that arent there. Tiny is not sickle hocked. Here is a great picture of a sickle hocked horse. Honestly one of the most extreme i have ever seen. See how the legs are bent under the horse?? This is a rescue brenda took in and let me use the pics to show the youth. I agree that seeing pics of real horses makes it easier. For years i have been trying to get pics of every fault so that i could make a website but I never can get people to send me pictures. Another fault i saw recently but didnt get a picture of is pigeyed.

 

[VernB]

I find this really interesting. I have looked at the comformation pics before, but I find that when real horses are used it is easier to understand conformation. I have never shown a horse before. When buying a horse I do look for good conformation, but I am not very experienced. I own 13 miniatures and I have lots of pics of them. I would be very willing to let someone use them for conformation pics. I would like to see the good points and the faults and let others learn also. I don't have anyway to post pics. If someone wants to use them I can email them.

 

[cat_in_the_hat72]

Kay I was just thinking of posting some pictures of Minnie myself. She has improved but is still sicle hocked and slightly cow hocked. She probably has other faults too but that's ok because she just perfect for loving. :bgrin

 

[Margo_C-T]

Excellent thread, Kay! I agree that the photo of the bay rescue shows some of the worst sickle hocks I've seen-I would add that it appears that the horse in the photo illustrating the club foot is also sickle hocked.Personally, I also would not breed a 'coon-footed' horse, any more than a 'club-footed' one. Coon-footed equals weak suspensory ligaments, and IMO, is every bit as functionally serious, if not even more so, than a true club foot.

Do you have an illustration of 'back at the knees', or 'calf-kneed'? Although it is quite correct that 'over at the knee' is a serious fault, because of the direction of impact through the knee joint, 'back at the knees'or 'calf-kneed' is actually a worse one,from a functional and soundness standpoint! I wouldn't breed a horse with either fault.(I have been there and seen a National halter title won by a tiny mare with a SERIOUS 'back at the knee' flaw. Speaks to the need for better education of judges.....)

What needs so badly to be taught/learned is how to recognize what are serious functional flaws VS what are more or less cosmetic. Even functional flaws-probably the prime example is being cow-hocked-are a matter of DEGREE, as to whether they should eliminate the horse with them from the breeding pool. It is often, too, a matter of the 'package', i.e., does a horse have mild cow-hocks, but the hocks ARE clean, tight, square, and proportionate to the horse, the stifles sound, with clean cannons and fetlock joints, pasterns of proper angulation, and sound feet of a size and shape sufficient to the horse's size and weight--and so on and so on? Ideally, the best choices for breeding horses are those that are both functionally AND cosmetically as close to 'perfect' as possible, but in order to try to produce that quality, or better, from a set of parents, one needs to have a solid knowledge of 'which is which', and of what 'less than ideal' characteristic is likely to be able to be improved in the offspring, and of what should simply disqualify an animal from being bred.

In order to 'see' a horse's genuine conformation, I firmly believe that the horse must not be stretched at all, but stood square and with a 'natural to that horse' head position. The best way to learn about conformational aspects is to LOOK AT a LOT of horses, but if the only place you see them is in the artificial postures of the show ring, you cannot get the education of vision that is needed. Taking good photos of rescue horses would certainly be a great help, IMO. Once they have been surrended to a rescue, and aren't identified as to the previous owner, there should not be this issue of 'not having the owner's permission' to post, and such photos could be very useful to illustrate conformational features of all sorts, both correct and incorrect.

Thanks for introducing this thread; to me, one of the highest functions of a Forum such as this should be as a genuine tool for learning,and this 'fits'.

Margo

 

[kaykay]

hi brenda! she looks so much better. what a sweetie pie!

I agree the blue roan is also sickle hocked. Shes a cmhr rescue

I feel she is very much a minimal expression dwarf. For people looking notice how the head isnt right and the nostrils look funny. Also her length of leg doesnt match her body and shes very long in the back. Throw in the crooked legs and to me she has enough dwarf characteristics that she should never be bred. This filly does however have a very nice pedigree which just goes to show pedigree isnt everything

Heres a full pic of her. She is so full of herself though and so much fun to play with. Im so fascinated with horse conformation that i could go on for pages LOL

margo unfortunately i havent got any pics of calf kneed etc. I keep collecting though and some day I hope to have good pics of every fault. Its a quest :bgrin

 

[MBhorses]

HELLO,

THIS IS MBhorses I would like to thank everyone for helping me about my horses.

I am trying to learn as much as possible. We would like to show in the future. My daughter who is almost 12 yrs old has been taking judging with our 4-h,plus photo, horse bowl and speed events with her big horse.

thanks melissa