Cosmetic Surgery - Really?

[StarRidgeAcres]

I hadn't heard of lipo for a horse before!! :no: :no: :no:

I've thought about it for showing before...but that was in relation to my thighs when I trot the horse not the horses neck!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Making a horses eyes apear bigger with surgery? I hate shaving above their eyes and putting the goop on, but I do it. But I have to draw the line at that point.

We had the opportunity to meet a TON of great people while showing this past year. Most we really liked, some not so much. But having said that, I can't picture any of them having their horse surgically altered!

 

[just2minis]

I think cosmetic surgery is right up there with animal cruelty :no:

 

[Kootenay]

Hope i'm not jumping into this too late, but I think proper breeding should make it's mark as far as proper neck and headset/ conformation goes. I may not own a gem with papers, but as I was going through his pictures today, I pulled up a picture showing a pasture pulled, badly clipped--(I admit) horse with a natural neck at a 18 months old. I don't see the beauty in trying to cosmetically make mini horses more than what they are. My motto is: Care, Feed, Love Em', Breed--Show Your Standards

: .

HERE:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

While I am not naive enough to say it never happens I surely don't believe the majority of horses in the MHW or the Journal have been surgically altered.

In fact I know the owners of many of these horses with amazing hooky necks and know they did nothing of the sort.

So yes I am sure it happens but no I dont believe it is rampant in the Miniature Horse breed.

 

[Kootenay]

Here's two more pictures that would make a horses neck look odd. I took these pictures from a video of buddy trotting around. The pictures make his neck 'flexed' to say the least--(good flex though :-D) --There's no surgical procedures here to make this guy's neck the way it is.

 

[Dream]

Here's a story for you guys;

There is a surgery that was devised to try and stop horses from cribbing. The idea is that they would cut the muscle that allows a horse to make the cribbing motion. As a "side effect" the horse would end up with a thinner throat latch. There was a top level Arab trainer who all of a sudden had A LOT of cribbers in his barn, funny thing. I believe he was caught and disciplined.

Other things that can be done are cutting tendons on the legs to help correct club feet, braces to correct a parrot mouth. These are for the best interest of the horse but can hide what is genetically possible if the horse is bred.

Someone mentioned injecting hocks and I just wanted to comment that joint injections are not in the same category as any of the other things mentioned here. Most large performance horses are maintained with joint injections (especially hocks) and can have much longer productive careers with a little help.

 

[Mini Mouse]

I am not into showing and have never been to a show. But reading this makes me sick... :no: Who in their right minds would do this to a poor horse for that person to get"money"... I feel that they must only want money and don't truely love their horses...

: I could never do that to anything that I loved... So my two are not"show quality", but they sure are loved and would never be put threw that!!! What is wrong with the world today??? What happened to hard work and training? Anything for a buck...or to be"Better"... My two are better than those ones anyday... They are the way God meant them to be..

:

Thank you MiniforFaith. You said it all! I whole heartedly agree. :aktion033:

 

[maplegum]

Ohh my. I must have had my head buried in the sand! Although, i really am only new to mini's. I cna't believe what i am reading. I am discovering many things about mini's from this forum. Unfortunately, there are some things that i wish i never knew.

It's breaking my heart to think that people would put their beloved animals through such cruelty, all for their own greedy needs. As far as i'm concerned, these people are superficial.

These poor horses. They are one of the worlds most beautiful animals already. Lets let nature show their real beauty.

 

[PrestigeMiniHorses]

:no: OK so it's now my turn lol to put my 2 cents into this matter... I have to say that people who do lipo on horses are just ignorant and why the heck would you do something that is not natural for the horse. Don't you think you be uncomfortable if all of a sudden your neck was super or sumper fat. It just seems dumb to do this. I think that a horse should be training to do this if anything. I don't even sweat my horses' necks (even though I should for my mare anyhow) but this is worse by all means. I just don't understand why someone would do it to make a quick buck...Makes me mad all I can say but one last comment-

I believe liposuction and most cosmetical surgeries make SOMEONE look fake. Horses are not meant to be that way and if they were they would be in a Barbie placeset, since of course she is fake too.

 

[Devon]

I DO think its unatural yes. If Its harming the horse in any way that he won't feel like he does normally then yes its wrong. Sweating I think is fine it doesn't harm the horse and your only slightly altering a neck. Surgeries for it thats crossing the line here. My 2 cents about "braces" is. I think it would be fine not AMAZING but fine . If you are not going to breed the horse but want to show him/her in the ring then fine. Mabe a Gelding. Cutting tendons to fized Clubbed feet thats wrong; Cutting feet down to 1 inch thats wrong :no: But; I think its alright to try and "hide" your faults in ways that are humane ie; sweating; corrective Farrier work just with trims to alter the hoof slightly. Interesting Topic! Good Comments! Agree with Becky 100%.

 

[tagalong]

Huh. Well I guess if we ever have an ad in the World that everyone will see those lovely "hooky" necks and decide they were surgically altered and start whispering. Only - they weren't. It is all natural. And then add in the great NOT RETOUCHED photos... and there you have it. But let the pointing and accusations begin...

: :lol:

I think that painting all those lovely hooky necks with the broad brush of surgery is not only wrong - but unfair. OF COURSE more refined necks show up now - minis have come a long way in the past 20 years.

The only surgery that I have ever heard of was liposuction on a few stallions...

Breaking a horse's nose to get a dishier face is sheer nonsense...

When broken, noses often get lumpier or crooked - as you see in humans. And the dish in a face is not at the nose...

No horse here would ever have anything of the sort done. But I confess that after reading some of the posts in this thread - I am feeling a bit paranoid...

 

[Devon]

No horse here would ever have anything of the sort done. But I confess that after reading some of the posts in this thread - I am feeling a bit paranoid...

Makes you think. Did that horse I buy witht he dishy face have surgery

Weird. I know mine didnt tehehe! Only have oen so I have close tabs.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Selling a horse that had had surgery without declaring it would be fraud.

You would not be selling the horse that was seen, after all.

Think about it- if you dyed a horse so that it was a Pinto and sold it as a Pinto it would be fraud (YES I am fond of that word, but if you look it up in the dictionary you will see I am using it correctly!!)

Ergo- if you alter a horse with surgery and then sell it you are committing fraud -deception in other words- which is illegal.

BUT I do not know of, nor have I heard of any Mini that has had this done.

I know of many cases where you can SEE that the photo has been altered, and I am not sure how the law would stand if you bought a horse of such a photo, I think it would be halfway between misrepresentation and Caveat Emptor!!!

Basically, if you want to know what a horse looks like you have to go and look at it, otherwise you rely on the honesty of the seller/producer.

Tag, those horse look grand, but that is my idea of an "honest" picture- you can see (well, I can) that the pictures are a pretty true representation of the horse in full show condition, if I cam and looked at that horse in the pasture, in winter coat, I would not expect to see the same horse, but I would expect to be able to see the quality showing.

There is absolutely no substitute for quality and it cannot be hidden nor can it be manufactured.

A horse with real quality will stand out in any crowd.

I am afraid that this is one reason I HATE the way some horses are produced.

 

[Dream]

Devon,

I just wanted to clarify about cutting ligaments/tendons to correct club feet. It is usually the inferior check ligament that is cut since this is an accessory ligament and the horse will do fine without it. If that's not enough they can start cutting tendons but that is less ideal.

It is usually done in young horses who have not responded to corrective trimming. Since a club foot can be a source of lameness or have a negative effect on movement as the horse ages this procedure may be the difference between having a performance horse or a pasture ornament. It is a valid surgery with a sound medical basis. Much like correcting an overbite so the horse can chew properly. Any surgeon I've ever known to correct a parrot mouth will geld a colt at the same time. With a filly they can only offer strict genetic counselling.

Like I said, the problem is when the horse corrects so well that it looks normal and then it gets put into a breeding program. You could end up getting foals with the same problem.

 

[Fred]

I will add my 2 cents worth also. CLUB FEET ARE NOT NECESSARILY HEREDITARY! Other factors can play in the cause. Leia is right, cutting a check ligament [a desmotomy] is not the end of the world and will greatly help the horse. I even had one where had the deep flexor had not been cut the horse would have been permanently lame. That horse is fine now and competes in driving and is owned by a forum member. I don't find where that particular type of surgery is enhancement. Linda B

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, I agree about the ligaments- it would never be enhancement IMO- if the animal in question went on to win the World Championship I would be royally pi**ed but I would understand that this went beyond cosmetic

 

[Charlotte]

I'm very much opposed to invasive procedures such as liposuction and electric acupuncture to change neck shape. If we have to resort to these procedures to make show horses, then we are doing something wrong as breeders. JMHO

DITTO Becky! If we can't breed it we don't SHOW it!

If a horse we bred or show wins in the show ring it CAN reproduce those qualities which made it a winner! No funny stuff here.

Charlotte

 

[Millstone Farm]

I've heard for years that some people resort to cosmetic surgery, but my comeback is always WHERE WOULD YOU FIND A VET WILLING TO DO IT???

I've never come across one that I think would even consider doing such a thing.

 

[Charlotte]

While I am not naive enough to say it never happens I surely don't believe the majority of horses in the MHW or the Journal have been surgically altered.In fact I know the owners of many of these horses with amazing hooky necks and know they did nothing of the sort.

So yes I am sure it happens but no I dont believe it is rampant in the Miniature Horse breed.

Lisa,

Maybe not surgically altered, but electric acupunctured. Even amateurs have the machines and are doing it. Not surgical, but a medical procedure. And IMO not ethical.

So what happens when someone spends big $ for one of these horses and a year later they have heavy necks? What happens when someone buys a foal from one of these horses and it grows up to be far less than it's sire or dam?...........yes, no breeding is guaranteed to produce a carbon copy of the foal's parents, but if the genetics aren't there to begin with????????

Charlotte

 

[Cathy_H]

Well I guess if we ever have an ad in the World that everyone will see those lovely "hooky" necks and decide they were surgically altered and start whispering

Tagalong - your horses do not fit the extreme description of the horses that I ( & probably the others here are referring to).......... And I ( nor are the other posters ) saying all horses with nice hooky necks have had surgeries etc.... I feel those that do not think this is happening are being naive and it is fraud. And yes talking to some of the people that have done this, you would never believe that they themselves did it & they will convince you of that................................. It would be nice to see the actual horses in some of those pictures to see if they were retouched or if they actually had the surgery....................................................................

What happens when someone buys a foal from one of these horses and it grows up to be far less than it's sire or dam....

One reason I tell people to look at what a stallion/dam are producing.........................................

I've heard for years that some people resort to cosmetic surgery, but my comeback is always WHERE WOULD YOU FIND A VET WILLING TO DO IT

Come to Kentucky - I am sure they are in other states also.............. Several years ago we had one of these vets offer to do embryo transplants for our mini mare that could not hold a pregnancy also. :no: