Cryptorchidism in Mini stallions...

[ontherisefarm]

Hi ya'll !

I was just wondering what long time breeders thought about the validity of what it said. It said that mini stallions mature slower than big ones. Also said that minis will sometimes retain a testicle until 3 then drop and go on to successful breeding careers. I was wondering if others had noticed the same? I know this topic has been up on here before but cant seem to remember what all was said.. I am not trying to open a can a worms just wanted to know if others have noticed this as being the norm for minis....

Thankyou all for your time and input...

 

[TripleDstables]

I wouldn't know, because I bought my stallion as an 11 year old with both descended! This worries me, when I start breeding though, I have nightmares of getting my dream colt and he turns out to be a cryptorchid!

I also want to see some of the bigger breeders' opinions on this.

 

[blueprintminis]

I had a colt born here who was almost 3 before his 2nd testicle dropped. I did use him as a breeding stallion for a couple years after he dropped. Interestingly, his colts tended to be late droppers AND his fillies tended to also mature sexually at a slower rate and typically wouldn't carry a foal to term until they were 5 or 6. I only used him a couple years. He is now a very happy youth gelding here.

 

[CyndiD]

I had a stallion that finally dropped at FOUR!! I was so excited that I had him gelded...

(easier to geld when they are both "handy")

 

[Riverdance]

Some lines do not drop until they are 3. But, I personally would not breed to a stallion that did not get its testicles till then as it runs in the family and its sons will end up doing the same.

My colts have their testicles at birth, and by two they are both down and ready to breed..

 

[ontherisefarm]

That is too funny Cyndi.!!!! Thanks for everyones thoughts..Anybody else ???

 

[kaykay]

I think this does so much damage to miniature horses in general to say they dont need to be dropped until age 3 or later. This is so wrong. I feel this is why its such a huge problem in minis because people believe it and keep breeding them. Its a viscous circle. And it most definitely runs in certain bloodlines.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I agree with kaykay.

Margo

 

[disneyhorse]

I have to agree with Kaykay... it might be genetic, such as locking stifles, and by saying "oh they will grow out of it" or "they mature slower sometimes" and then going ahead and breeding this, we are reinforcing and perpetuating an undesirable trait...

Andrea

 

[JWC sr.]

I agree with Kay Kay, we beleive it definitely to be genetic and it runs in some lines and you never know it till it happens.

I bought a very nice colt (and expensive) a few years back because I liked his daddy and sister. He was a late dropping individual and did not drop completely till he was three. one testicle was about half size of the other also. I bred him one time and his resulting son had the same problem, when he dropped at 23 months.

We fixed that with a gelding party for both of them on the same day. Now that problem will not perpetuate itself anymore from those two individuals anyway.

We kept one to show in the gelding classes for a while and the other is driving for a good friend.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Accepting that Mini Stallions drop later has allowed this to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

If no-one bred from these later bloomers they would disappear, as this problem was never prevalent in the original Shetland, thus it has been allowed to develop by "lazy" breeding standards.

I want my colts to be ready to breed by their second year, even though they may not do a full season, just a proving one, and so far I have never been disappointed.

Since I have only ever bred from fully descended animals I do not have a problem with "late developers" so, yes, I would say it is obviously an inheritable problem.

As such it should be avoided.

 

[stormy]

I have a stallion, my first stallion...an old man now, he did not drop until he was three, none of his babies have been cryps, non of his daughters have had reproductive issues and I have had many of them. As all things in minis the question must be do the animals other charateristics make him worth perhaps taking a chance with. Many things can be involved with getting those berries to fall besides genetics such as nutrition, weather and excercise..it is also possible to just not be checking at the right time, they can drift up and down in an immature animal. I had one stud who had one sitting on top of the other for the longest time, feeling that second one was no easy task but it was there! And a stallion returned once as the purchaser claimed he only had one testicle yet when he arrived home there was no mistaking the two big tennis balls under there!

I also worked on a quarter horse farm for a while and one of their boys did not fully drop until late in his 2 yr old year so not exclusive to minis.

 

[Windhaven]

I have to say I agree with the majority here. This does seem to be a hereditary problem. I have purchased my share of colts that have not descended at two years of age. I had to keep one until he was 4 yrs old before returning him (paid a lot of money for him as a future breeding stallion from a big farm). The owner was upset that I didn't try hormone shots to get the second one to descend. I won't use a stallion that does not drop on it's own by the time he is two years old. I also agree that if we stopped breeding these late bloomers then you would see less of them. Just my opinion.

I am also sure there are some exceptions to this.

 

[Becky]

Many things can be involved with getting those berries to fall besides genetics such as nutrition, weather and excercise..it is also possible to just not be checking at the right time, they can drift up and down in an immature animal. I had one stud who had one sitting on top of the other for the longest time, feeling that second one was no easy task but it was there! And a stallion returned once as the purchaser claimed he only had one testicle yet when he arrived home there was no mistaking the two big tennis balls under there!

Stormy, I agree with you 100%! I have personally seen it happen a number of times that a person will claim a colt or stallion only has one, when in actuality it does indeed have two in the scrotum. The problem lies with the person doing the checking! I had a young stallion come back last year that was claimed to just have one. He had two when he stepped off the trailer! It didn't just jiggle down on the ride home! And he had been checked by 3 vets who claimed to only find one!!! I've seen many others also. These little guys are very talented at sucking them up when they don't want to be handled there and it takes some skill and knowing what you are feeling for sometimes to find them.

And yes, I do feel that proper nutrition plays a big role in testicle development as well as other physical development in a horse.

 

[CKC]

I also, had a colt drop at 3. He was to be gelded and had to wait. Just last week I had two gelded. One of them only had one dropped. The vet went in and found the other to be really tiny in the canal. Thank goodness. I was so glad to hear they were able to geld him. I did not want to wait until the age of 3 again.

I've had 8 miniatures gelded. I only had one that had not dropped until the age of 3 and then the one testicle last week. Other than that they have all been down at birth or soon after.

Kim

 

[Joanne]

There was an excellent article written about ponys and miniature horses in The Horse magazine a few years ago addressing this issue. The inguinal ring on these horses closes slower than on most full size horse breeds. Like has been mentions by Becky and others they are able to suck them up inside easier. I too have sent out horses that I clearly had two testes in my hands and the new owner could not find them.

I have a stallion from a famous stallion who was slow to drop. I was aware of his sire's condition when I bought the stallion, but he, and so far his offspring, have had no issues.

In a further note, we lost a 1.5 year old horse after a castration when the gut fell out through that same inguinal ring. I always advise clients to wait until two years old to geld or make sure their vet knows the inguinal ring has closed before castrating.

 

[txminipinto]

There was an excellent article written about ponys and miniature horses in The Horse magazine a few years ago addressing this issue. The inguinal ring on these horses closes slower than on most full size horse breeds. Like has been mentions by Becky and others they are able to suck them up inside easier. I too have sent out horses that I clearly had two testes in my hands and the new owner could not find them.

I have a stallion from a famous stallion who was slow to drop. I was aware of his sire's condition when I bought the stallion, but he, and so far his offspring, have had no issues.

In a further note, we lost a 1.5 year old horse after a castration when the gut fell out through that same inguinal ring. I always advise clients to wait until two years old to geld or make sure their vet knows the inguinal ring has closed before castrating.

The problem is hereditary. Regarding the inguinal ring, a simple suture pattern can close it after the castration to prevent herniation.

 

[ontherisefarm]

The article I read did mention the fact that miniature stallions' inguinal ring closes later than larger breeds.They called retaining testicles as temporary Inguinal retention...( when they wait until 3 to descend) Ok the article pretty much made it out to be not that big of a deal. So what most of you are saying is that if you had a world champion colt and if he didnt drop by 2 you would geld him and lose out on the possible quality colts he could sire if he dropped a year later. ?????? That definitely makes one think...

 

[txminipinto]

Yes, I would. Because the acceptance of "late droppers" is wrong. In an industry with too many stallions to begin with, we should be culling those stallions out of our gene pool. Greed and selfish pride is what keeps most stallions in tact when they should be turned into outstanding geldings.

 

[ontherisefarm]

I know that as breeders we are responsible for making decisions on what animals we use for breeding. I know that there are no perfect horses and all of them have certain faults.So when breeding we make the decisions to make the most perfect foal we can by crossing our stallions on mares that will compliment them. I do agree true crptochids should be culled from breeding but somehow I dont find feeling that strongly about late bloomers. Greed and selfish pride have nothing to do with it on my end. To me wanting a colt to be able to breed right as a 2 yr old would kinda lead me to that assumption instead of being tolerant of late bloomers. I am a small breeder and do it more for my enjoyment than the almighty dollar cause Lord knows my horses have me in the hole more than out of it. LOL Anyway, I appreciate everyone's opinion even if it doesnt match mine. I just wanted to know if people found it prevalent in miniatures and found that the colts can drop as 3yr olds as the article said... I have not had a colt that didnt drop by two so it isnt that I am breeding a bunch of late bloomers. Was just curious if it happened alot. But at this time I do have a 2 yr old colt that I can only feel one berry but that doesnt mean it is not there just that I cant feel it. This colt also doesnt happen to be one I bred but bought. Thanks for listening.....