Curious what this group thinks about sexual orientation

[woodnldy]

"And it harm no others," to me that says it all. I have worked with several that were admittedly gay and I had no problems at all. Then I have been around several others that were and they were so openly, mouthy ,and foul that it made misery for everyone working near . It was like they were trying to pick a fight or something. That behavior is what has caused much of the problems. What goes on in your bedrooms is your own personal bussiness so why does it have to be made national T V coverage prime time even? That bugs me. I am not completely comfortable with watching a Hetero couple doing deep throat :new_shocked: much less two guys or two gals.

: Marriage was instituted for the protection and raising of the children and commitments can be made as much without marrage as with. Many People have tried to say it is a religious thing but the commitment was there way back before our organized, religions, became recognized as such

: .I will hush

 

[nootka]

KanoasDestiny, yes, there is attraction that exists within the same gender and yet, does it make us gay? I doubt it, but the point is that we are each of us different and many variations of what is "right" for each of us.

I've never been offended by compliments or "hits" from someone the same gender. I've even flirted around some with those much like I would with a male friend, or talked about "girls" or "guys" with both. It depends on how comfortable they are with it, and what situation we're in.

My stepsister passed away in Sept. 1991 from AIDS. She was transgendered and lived a long life of difficulty. One of the men she encountered happened to have the virus (which he got from previous IV needle use, not from his orientation, which was straight). Lori was a one of a kind person, had a tremendous capacity for understanding of all life, and was taken far too soon. Her death came at a time when AIDS was still very reviled for its rampantness among a certain "type" of people, but in reality, her story could have happened to any female anywhere. It just so happens she was born male but needed to live as a female to feel good and right about herself. I knew all along the truth, but she didn't tell me until about two years before she passed away, which I had known her for ten years prior to that. She was surprised that I never said anything even though we shared a bedroom for about six months, but I told her it didn't matter to me. It was sort of a non event, her telling me, and she was really happy about that.

Anyway, she was accused of being gay often, which I suppose in one respect she was, but not really...an awful life to have to live, something so basic which is not "accepted" generally, and can lead to such a violent rejection. My uncle Phillip was also transgendered though he started out feeling he was merely gay, he eventually began to live life as a female. Much of his distress with his own condition was created from his father, who was very cruel to him. I remember hearing him screaming obscenities at his son, and reviling him, wishing him death and ill will because of it. (Phillip was his only son, and his namesake to boot.) My uncle Phil(Lys) committed suicide in 1982, cutting his throat in his trailer where he lived by himself. I have no doubt the reason he felt he had to do this was the way his own family treated him. I didn't hear about it for months afterward, and felt so helpless and lost without a way to tell him, as an "almost adult" that I didn't care about his orientation, his gender, I just loved him because he was such a great person, an artist and very gentle and sensitive.

I know it can't be a choice as noone would choose to be part of a group of people who do have to suffer against so much adversity. It would be like choosing to have cancer or have a limb cut off voluntarily. I don't see it.

Liz R., I am so glad your brother has found happiness and success.

THAT is a major accomplishment no matter the gender mix. The fact that he's beaten the odds is even greater.

Liz

 

[Jill]

Edited to add...I think that to a certain degree (and I know that the people who are strictly against homosexuality will disagree with this) that EVERYONE has some sort of attraction to the same sex. That's why we as women can look at another woman and say "Wow, she's so pretty". There is "something" we find appealing about her, in order to say that. Same thing can be said for not thinking someone is attractive...there's nothing to attract us to that person. It may not be sexual, but it is attraction. Does that make sense?

I don't know that what you are describing is so much "attraction" but maybe admiration? Sort of like the difference between wanting to be with or close to that person and wanting to be more like that person, or to emulate that person?

Also, speaking of having women hit on you, this hasn't happened to me, or if it has, I was oblivious. HOWEVER, one time at a restaurant, our server was a man, but dressed as a woman (transvestite or transgender -- sp?). He was really over the top like you'd see on a sitcom! He was laying it on thick flirting with Harvey. I could barely keep a straight face because it was making H embarrassed. I was like kicking him under the table and winking at him. Then when we got in the car I told him HE shouldn't have been flirting with our waiter and he was all defensive "I WAS NOT" like I was being serious. It was pretty funny :bgrin

 

[Leeana]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else said. I know three gay people and i completely respect them and I dont really feel odd around them, there human for the love of god. There not trying to convert me over to there beleifs so i dont think there really hurting anyone.

We live in a VERY conservative area so you dont see to many people around here that are gay or bi or atleast that are open about it.

I completely agree KanoasDestiny said!

I think you only get so many years on this earth so you should be aloud to do what you want for the most part.

 

[lilhorseladie]

OK, I will bite. I personally think that homosexuality is a sin. I don't like it. But hate is also a sin and so while I don't agree with homosexuality, I would never condone mistreatment of someone because of their sexual orientation. I too have known people who were gay. I am a loving person and a great friend and wouldn't turn someone away because of this. I can live with it, but I don't have to like it, but I have to love the person. Now I am zipping on the flame retardant suit

 

[nootka]

Staci, you're to be commended for being brave enough to post and your attitude is admirable even if I don't agree with your perception and interpretation of homosexuality. I don't feel that something like that can be considered a sin, but again, I have a problem with the whole concept of religious rules and interpretations being as they came from a mere mortal in the first place, and I can't see having to bend to a person's will "just because" they said so.

I am glad you are at least open minded enough to be kind and understanding, also accepting. To me a sin is something that is a choice, and gay is not a choice.

Liz M.

 

[Cimarron]

lilhorseladie, I agree 100% with you. No flames from me! Barnbum, I agree !00% about the traditional families being man and woman. No if, ands, or buts. Sheila

 

[Valerie]

I think peoples preferences are just that, their preferences. It's not up to me to tell people what will make them happy, if they are gay, and are living the life they choose to live and are happy in it, I am very happy for them. I agree with the folks who think that gay people are mis-treated, they are and it is very sad, I have never understood why it's anyone's business but the 2 people in a relationship.

The saying I heard once and it just cracked me up was, "Why shouldn't gay people be married, why should we be the only ones miserable?". Haha. I am sorry, it struck me funny, I hope nobody is offended.

To be quite honest, I think anyone that wants to be married should be entitled to be married, I can see where it would bring a lot of security and health benefits to people who otherwise may not have that. I also think that the "traditional family" has been fading since the 50's, just in my opinion. I know that I was raised in a traditional family unit, Dad, stay at home mom who raised 7 kids. Did I think it was the best situation, maybe not, but it was all we had. I found out years later that my Dad worked 2 and 3 jobs while us kids were growing up, and my parents just celebrated 50 years of marriage in June.

I think if people whomever they might be can be kind, and love and respect a child and raise them to be a good person who cares about others, I don't care what your sexual orientation or race or religion is. I think more people need to back to the basics and stop trying to be their kids best friends and be parents again.

Heck, I am married & I don't want children and partly because I know that I wouldn't be a good parent and partly because both my husband and I are selfish and we treat our animals like our kids. We knew from the moment we met we didn't want children, and that we wouldn't be good parents. I am not saying we would have been abusive, before anyone reads more into this than there is. We both just knew that we were not "parent people". I think either you are or you aren't. I know there are days when my Mom, my sisters and even my brothers would like to relinquish the title of "parent" on some days, but they absolutely love being a parent. But me, I just prefer to be the "Super Cool Aunt".

Again, just my opinion.

Great topic Liz!

 

[Ashley]

Barnbum~

Here is your chance to open your mind and try to learn a little bit, just like you tried to get us to learn about religon.

Me personally, whatever makes the person happy have at it, as long as its not something that is against the law.

Matt~

Congrats!

 

[justanothercowgirl]

Staci(lilhorseladie) and Karla(Barnbum) I commend you both for speaking up when what you believe is not the more popular stance. It seems often these days when you take such a Christian stance on a topic such as this that you will be accused of being narrow minded and I find that after reading your expansion on your views it would be unjust to say that. I am glad that you both can say that while you don't agree with homosexuality based on your Christian values that you do value each person equally and would treat them well. That I can respect!! :aktion033:

For the record I agree with Liz that a sin is something that is a choice and being gay is not a choice.

Pam

I love when we can have a great discussion on here!!!!

:

 

[nootka]

I still just can't "get" that something you cannot help is viewed as a sin.

For example, if you came down with cancer, would that be a sin?

Born with a genetic defect? A sin, or genetic chance?

Or if you were born with blue eyes instead of brown..is that a sin? No...it just is.

(and while I'm at it, why are such things as illnesses and unfortunate accidents considered a visitation of god's will and yet something such as being gay, which many consider an illness is "against god's will?" What's up with that? I can assure you my uncle would never have chosen to feel the way he did if he had any bit of choice. HE TRIED multiple times to live as a straight man, he was even married at one point. In the end, he committed yet another "sin" if you choose to believe certain interpretation's of man's bible, and ended his own life, hoping to stop the suffering around him beginning with his own.

I've never been able to understand original sin, either, but maybe that's just why I'm not considered a good "insert religious denomination here". Too many questions and I don't like someone telling me (or anyone else) what to think.

It (discrimination) starts in the innocence of "hate the sin not the sinner" but how do you separate the two? One implies that the "sinner" is doing something wrong by choice (sinning) and what is the alternative? To teach them to stop with punishment or negative reinforcement. No, not all would choose to do this, but many more immature personalities WILL. They believe they are doing "gods will" and there is no greater calling than to do such. I've heard it straight from many a bigot's mouth, that it is against the will of god and I just see ignorance when I hear it.

Liz M.

 

[LindaL]

I ponder this line:

a sin is something that is a choice and being gay is not a choice.

That's the whole mystery right there. Is it genetic? Environmental? A choice???? It's never been answered clearly and consistently. It never will be. That's why it's a great topic for discussion.

Wow!! I come home from the beach to a topic that something I definately can add my 2 cents worth on!!

:

Barnbum,

I am a lesbian. I have been a lesbian my whole life. I knew that I was attracted to women as a child. I was not exposed to any form of gay lifestyle growing up, so it definately was not environmental. I grew up in a very strict church-going Catholic family, with parents that "assumed" that I was going to grow up and marry a man...and so that is how I was "programmed"...and I did marry a man. I was married to him for 12 years and had 2 children with him. BUT....I was still a lesbian and still was attracted to women and I finally had to come to terms with that IN MY OWN MIND...and accept it. I did NOT choose to be a lesbian...its how I was born. I did get divorced from my husband and am now an out lesbian living with a woman...and I am HAPPY!!! Coming out and being TRUE to myself was something I had to do to become happy in my life.

My parents, while they do not agree with my lifestyle have accepted me and my partners, because they love me and only want the best for me....no matter what the Bible (or the pope, who is a human being like me) "supposedly" says.

I am not afraid to tell people that I am gay and do if they ask or it comes up....BUT....I dont hear straight people going around telling others they are straight...I dont understand why I need to even tell people who I'm attracted to....

: *shrug*

As far as marriage goes, the only reason I feel it should be LEGAL everywhere for gay people to marry is for the RIGHTS that straight married people AUTOMATICALLY have by having that legal piece of paper...taxes benefits, medical rights, birth/adoption/custody rights, etc...Straight people take all these things for granted, while gay people who want these things have to go to a lawyer and have special paperwork drawn up to have these rights..and even then they are sometimes not taken seriously, because if a family member says "No", then a partner would have to battle things out in court.... :no:

Again, I am out to whoever cares to know...and if they accept me, great and we can move on (and it doesnt ever have to come up again)...but, if they dont accept me (and I have "ex=friends" who I have just suddenly stopped contacting me after I came out to them)...I just let it be and say it is their own problem they must battle with, not MINE!

The only thing that matters in my life is that I am happy, I live my life caring and accepting others and living by the "golden rule" basically...I do not go out of my way to hurt others or offend them and I try not to judge. PEACE!! :saludando:

 

[nootka]

I am not afraid to tell people that I am gay and do if they ask or it comes up....BUT....I dont hear straight people going around telling others they are straight...I dont understand why I need to even tell people who I'm attracted to.... *shrug*

Very true. I have pondered that myself. I mean....it's just NOT AN ISSUE with most of the people you meet, whether or not they like to sleep with men or women (regardless of their gender).

I am so glad you have found peace and happiness and I wish for it for you always, Linda and also am proud to say you're my friend. Plus who else would help me show too many horses in the sweltering heat? *LOL* And thank me for it!

Liz

 

[wsf]

It took me a long time to admit to myself that I was gay. I tried to deny it until I was 18 and I finally came out just this year. I'm basicly out to anyone who asks, except for my parents. I can honestly say that I have never been happier and I'm lucky to have some really great friends.

As for gay marriage, I've always liked this quote: "Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one."

 

[Pepipony]

I live in the Bible belt and am very suprised at how many people, who claim to be Christians, are such horrible hypocrits. Dont understand how you can go to Church on Sunday and be taught to love thy neighbor, then wake up monday hating gays/people of other color/etc. Boggles the mind. I do know that this is everywhere and not just here, but seems worse here.

Hey, love is hard enough to find , so if you find it ( as long as its with the same species

: ) then go for it! Everyone deserves to be happy and loved and I wouldnt knock anyone for it. Life is way to short.

My thought is the Bible isnt written by God anyhow. It was written, re-written and written again by white men who wrote into or out of it, what THEY wanted. After all, Thou shalt not kill is in it, yet we had the Crusades.

 

[nootka]

Continued best wishes to you, wsf. I know it is not easy, but I DO think it is easier to accept the way you feel about yourself if you are "out" rather than pretending not to be or in denial, etc. I think there is a lot of terrible pain that builds up in that situation...I've seen it again and again and it's hard to witness.

I love this:

"Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one."

So true!

I still think that marriage should be available to anyone willing to commit to another person regardless of gender, for EVERY aspect of it, for the pride and the comfort in it as well as the legal issues.

Liz M.

 

[LindaL]

wsf,

I totally understand your feelings and fear of coming both to terms with your sexuality and then coming out to people, but I am glad you have found happiness in doing so! :aktion033: While everyone has their own way and in their own time in coming out to their parents (believe me whether it is right away or takes years, it never gets any easier)...I decided to come out to them right away (knowing how they would feel) for my own peace of mind. I dont like hiding from them (or anyone) and I wanted them to get to know my new partner. I hope that in time, you will feel comfortable telling your parents you are gay. Feel free to PM me if you want!!

 

[justanothercowgirl]

As I said in my previous post I have always felt that being gay is not a sin because it is not a choice....however...I was thinking about this overnight and I want to pose this question to you all. I still feel that a gay person, who I believe was genetically born that way is not committing a sin HOWEVER(here's the question) do you think that a man/woman who is incarcerated and then turns to acts of homosexuality for sexual satisfaction, who has otherwise been a heterosexual person, is then making a conscious choice to commit a homosexual act and is then committing a sin???

Second question for those of you that know the bible...is it specifically written that homosexuality is a sin?? If it is can you tell me where?

I AM NOT intending to stir the pot here just wanting to continue a civilized conversation on this topic which includes everyone!

:

 

[Matt73]

I can assure you that homosexuality is definitely NOT a choice. It's almost a preposterous question. Do straight people choose to be straight? Or, conversely, can one choose to enjoy sexual relations with a member of the same sex just "for kicks" (well...some do, I guess :lol: ). Why would someone choose to live a lifestyle that is frought with feelings of self-loathing and ridicule and that may lead to substance abuse (among other forms of self abuse) and sometimes even suicide. To be homosexual means learning how to ignore other's negative views, accepting one's self, loving one's self, being strong, and living the life you were meant to live.

As I said in my previous post I have always felt that being gay is not a sin because it is not a choice....however...I was thinking about this overnight and I want to pose this question to you all. I still feel that a gay person, who I believe was genetically born that way is not committing a sin HOWEVER(here's the question) do you think that a man/woman who is incarcerated and then turns to acts of homosexuality for sexual satisfaction, who has otherwise been a heterosexual person, is then making a conscious choice to commit a homosexual act and is then committing a sin???

Second question for those of you that know the bible...is it specifically written that homosexuality is a sin?? If it is can you tell me where?

I AM NOT intending to stir the pot here just wanting to continue a civilized conversation on this topic which includes everyone!

:

To answer your prison question. I don't think human sexuality is black & white. Humans are very fluid by nature and I do believe there is such a thing as bisexuality (a whole other thread probably :lol: ). As long as two adults are enjoying consensual relations that make each other feel good, what's the problem? I'm not even touching the whole bible thing

: !

 

[Ashley]

LindaL~ :aktion033:

WSF~ Good luck and I wish you the best!