Dead foals

[pepperhill]

Last year a friend of mine had two foals that were either born dead, or were born alive and couldn't get out of the bag and then died. They were born a week apart in early June and in both cases they were perfectly normal foals found still curled up in the bag. Autopsies were done on both and nothing was found. On one of them it almost looked like the little guy had tried to breath and suffocated, but there really is no way to know for sure if they died before or after birth. The mares were right on time with their due dates, both were a bit on the plump side, and had no visible illnesses before or after the delivery. I was told that the bag seemed normal as well. Has anyone ever heard of reasons why this happens? She has several other minis that all foaled fine within the weeks prior to these two mares. They were all in the same pen, eating the same food. The whole thing was chalked up to a mystery, but now that foaling season is upon us again, my friend is getting really stressed that it might happen again. She bought a camera system, but the vet told her that if the foals were born alive and couldn't get out of the bag, they died within minutes. She is so afraid that she might go to take a shower or something and miss it. Any ideas would really be appreciated. Thanks, Linda

 

[Lauralee]

This is where it is extremely useful to place your mares under cameras and use a foaling alert system.

Many miniature foals are born, that are simply not strong enough to break the sac.

With an attended birth, you can rip the sac with your fingers and save a foal easily.

 

[hairicane]

Thats exactly right!! If u want to raise minis u REALLY have to have an alarm system that the mares wear. Next most importand would be a camera system to be able to check for false alarms. I was just told that in our area the going rate for a necropsy (autopsy) on a dead foal runs $850. So your friend could have bought an equipage system and a camera system for what it cost to post the 2 dead foals.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Minis are not like the big version of equine. They just lay there a bit and the sack does not break on it's own sometimes. I have always tried to be ther for each of my births. Some sacks are thicker than others and to think of a foal suffocating just breaks my heart. If I have to I sleep out there in my recliner. Missy would have been dead quickly as she was a red bag. Gotta watch those tricky ladies!

 

[virginia]

Yes, it seems as though the sack is almost as tough as a big mares sack and a lot of the time a foal is too weak to break it open. You HAVE to be there to break the sac as the mare doesn't do it. My Equipage System along with my camera system has saved over 20 foals, well worth the $$ investment.

Ginny StP

 

[Tam VanderWerf]

There was a post on the Forum around May, 2005, which I printed. Unfortunately, I don't have the name of the Forum member who posted it, but the title was "From Tragedy to Triumph". Maybe a search for those keywords will find her post. Long story short, does your friend have any black walnut trees in the vicinity of the mares?

I lost two foals last year and the only explanation we have for the losses would be the black walnut trees in our mare pasture.

Just a thought.

 

[Miniv]

Your friend did the first step to doing the best thing for her mares and unborn foals! Buying a monitoring camera......

I would say over 85% of mini foals are just too small and light to break the amniotic sack by themselves and without assistance, a perfectly healthy foal will suffocate.

Another way of watching is to also make a very small investment into buying milk test strips. This helps narrow the watching time under camera ...... even if you own a Beeper Alert. which is attached to the mare's halter. The only flaw (and there's always at least ONE flaw) is when you can't get enough or any "milk" from your mare's teat.

As you can see....there are a number of methods to "watch" your broodmares. The methods vary in expense and technology, but with these little ones, IMO, making an extra effort is important if you want a live foal without too many heartbreaks.....

MA

 

[Joyce]

That's why you should be present at every foaling. Many mini foals can not break the sack and suffocate.

Also many times the mares needs help to get the baby out. We use cameras and the Breeder Alert system and are present at every birth. We also keep an oxygen tank in the barn at foaling time in case it is needed.

Joyce

 

[DunPainted]

During foaling season, I sleep in the barn with the mares.....guess all the high tech equipment still makes me nervous.

A week or so before our mares foal, we have a slumber party in the barn, so they get used to my presence. We have 12x12 matted stalls.....and this old hag tricks one out with a double bed, reading light, and small TV.

One of my friends who's a top breeder tag-teams with her husband at night during foaling system.

 

[slaneyrose]

Doesnt it get cold in the barn?? Its been known to snow here in April and I have 5 foals due end of march to end of april!! Brrrr!!! Also want to ask about these milk strip thingys.....dont you end up wasting precious colostrum by milking them every day to check???

 

[Lauralee]

Doesnt it get cold in the barn?? Its been known to snow here in April and I have 5 foals due end of march to end of april!! Brrrr!!!

All the more reason to be there when she foals so that you can dry off and warm up the foal.....

:

 

[SILVER]

Also want to ask about these milk strip thingys.....dont you end up wasting precious colostrum by milking them every day to check???

My vet said one time stop doing that you're robbing from the baby.

 

[Minimor]

It's also important for the mares to be getting the right mineral supplements. All the breeders in this general area that ever had problems with foals not getting out of the sac have switched to a particular type of mineral, and each & every one of them will tell you that since they've gone to this mineral preparation, they have had no further problems with thick sacs that the foals can't get out of.

The same is true of the cattle ranchers; there's a specific mineral blend the guys here use that pretty much eliminates the problem of calves dying in the sac.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Also want to ask about these milk strip thingys.....dont you end up wasting precious colostrum by milking them every day to check???

My vet said one time stop doing that you're robbing from the baby.

Actually, you are only using 1/2cc of milk at a time- literally, a drop in the bucket. For me, it's worth it. It's not like you're stripping her of everything she's got.

Lucy

 

[minihorselover27]

We have cameras in our foaling stalls and also use the milk strips. I will also throw in that it helps to have your cams online so that people all over the world can help you watch your mares. I have had 3 foals saved by a phone call from a person watching the cams while I took a nap. Love my cams online..

 

[SILVER]

Also want to ask about these milk strip thingys.....dont you end up wasting precious colostrum by milking them every day to check???

My vet said one time stop doing that you're robbing from the baby.

Actually, you are only using 1/2cc of milk at a time- literally, a drop in the bucket. For me, it's worth it. It's not like you're stripping her of everything she's got.

Lucy

I do realize it is such a tiny droplet Lucy, and I still do it as well. I do think it is worth it as it does reveal so much to us and our mare stare. Barb

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Sorry for your friends loss - it does make for lots of worry and stress, especially as foaling season approaches.

As for when they died before or after birth it's hard to say. We've had full term foals found dead, but they weren't in the sac. Why were they dead ? It could have been kicked, stepped on, born dead and mom cleared away the afterbirth (we've had those go missing!), there may not be any one answer.

Our experienced mares will help remove the placenta and all are very active getting up, (I think that helps break the cord, etc) and assisting - licking and pawing at their foal and talking to it. Our mare that abort on Saturday was doing this when we found her. We usually dry the foal off, check the vitals, and treat the cord - as quickly as possibly so mom can do the rest.

We did have one foal that had broken the sac, but a piece was covering the nostrils that we removed.

If she can get some sort of monitoring device or support she'll feel better.

 

[nootka]

One thing that can make the amniotic sac tougher than normal is fescue. Your friend should test her pastures for fescue and if there is some, take the mares off of it for the latter part of their gestation if nothing else. It also makes them unable to produce enough milk.

Just another possibility, though being there is paramount. Tiring, but important.

Liz M.

 

[Getitia]

I'm so sorry for your friends loss - we are fortunate in that we have someone available 24/7 at our farm during foaling season. We use cameras and breeder alerts and really - you need both. For example, in 2005 we were fortunate in that we did not experienced any foal losses -however we had several close calls and out of 33 foals -we saved around 9 through the breeder alert/camera system. In 2004, we lost two foals - one that was born very early and was not under observation and another that was a bad malposition in which the umbilical cord separated early - again around 30 foals with about 6 to 7 being saved - so as you can see the frequency of issues is much higher for this breed than their full size cousins.

We have seen the following happen so many times - the foal is born - and it is born completely encased in the sack - it will suffocate in a matter of minutes if not quickly removed from the sack. The majority of mares will just lay there after foaling and then get up. When the mare stands up - her standing up will in almost all cases, pull the sack away from the foal - however it is too late - the foal has already suffocated - what you find is a completely normal foal.

It seems like the combination of a small foal and older mare are the most at risk for being born in the sack- although we have maiden mares who have foaled with the sack intack.

It is easy to see on the monitor when a foal is born in the sack and the foal will actually wiggle around in the sack - I've never had one born completely in the sack, that has burst the sack before we could enter the stall to remove it. What does occur often, is the mare will jump up immediately after the birth or when we enter the stall - and thus her getting up actually removes the sack from the foal.

We have a friend who foals out his minis in the pasture - one year, he lost 50 percent of his foals -he would just find them laying in the pasture - completely normal in appearance and of course dead - given our experience, I suspect that the majority were lost to being born in the sack.

 

[Kathy2m]

I friend had a TB foal lost because it didnt get out of the sack, The Mare was WAY over due, the vet said the sack can get tougher the longer the pregnancy continues.