does all horses with locking stifle need surgery??

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shane

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my new horse has got slack patellas, they dont lock but he snaps them up in the morning,and is quite stiff,

so i got out the vet who examined him and ran him up and down, then done the flexion test and pivoted him both ways,

he came to the conclusion that he does not need surgery, hes not severe at all, and he said that he more or less just needs warmed up,

he actually said that looking at him in his opinion he looks fine, its just that i can see the difference in the mornings sometimes

so should i get a second opinion? or will he be okay? he said it wont effect his learning to drive and it will be good for him any advise welcome
 
I recently purchased a mare that developed a terrible case of locking stifles while in quarantine (in a very small paddock) at my farm. This problem was not apparent when I bought her. What happened was that she was prone to it due to her poor confirmation and when she was suddenly confined to a small space (a very small quarantine paddock versus the big pasture that she was used to) with limited exercise for a couple of weeks it made itself known. My vet prescribed an exercised regimen and lots of turn out (after the quarantine period was over, of course). If you do what your vet prescribed and give him/her as much turn out time as is possible for your, your schedule, and your situation it may (appear to) go away altogether.

If you trust/like your vet otherwise or from past experience, I see no reason to get a second opinion because his advise is in line with everything that I have read on my own and with what my vet told me, especially since you say the problem is only apparent briefly and appears to go away on its own. And, no, not all locking stifles need surgery. You just about always want to avoid surgery whenever possible. And, please consider not using that animal as a breeding animal as it is likely to pass this problem on to its offspring.
 
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If I remember correctly it is Selenium that if they are lacking in it, it can cause them to lock up and no not all horses need surgery just more nutrients and room to run.
 
I have never heard of a lack of a particular nutrient, vitamin, or mineral causing locking stifles. If you do a simple search via Google or Yahoo or whichever search engine you prefer, nearly all information out there associates locking stifles with poor stifle conformation. You really cannot do anything to alter a horses conformation in that area, but you can help build strength (through exercise and turn out) in that area that will sometimes stop locking stifles altogether. It couldn't hurt to try, I'm just saying your post is the first information or opinion that I have heard to contradict.
 
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They will get worse as he gets older.

I would leave him another year and get a different Vets opinion.

Surgery in his case should not be expensive as he will quite probably only need the ligaments "shaved" and not cut, and it can be done standing, a very small incision.

In this case it is genetic.
 
No, not all do. I had two different vets give me opinions saying I just needed to exercise my guy. It worked for a little while, but he was probably in worse shape than yours.

I would put your guy on a good joint supplement to help prevent arthritis and exercise him on hills and such. Lunging is bad on their joints. So do more straight work exercising.
 
Yes, in some cases I would agree with not all needing surgery, although supplements don't really help at all.

(Neither does exercise, all it does is delay the inevitable, and yet it is always what Vets will advise, I sometimes wonder if some of them bother to do any research into these things themselves or just repeat what someone else has told them!!!)

But not in this case, sorry.

In this case it is genetic and he will need surgery.

I am not sure if, when you know it has to be done, it would not be better getting it done earlier, rather than later.

I do not know if any research has been done into this.
 
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well he is a four year oldgelding so there no need to worry about me breeding from him,

i asked my vet should i give him any supplements like glucosamine or cod liver oil, but he said thqat wont effect the mechanics of the leg,

money is not an option here, i did book the vet to come out and do surgery on both legs, he was adament it wasnt needed, and told me that he wouldnt do it unless the leg was locking , which it never has.

he is on good turn out 24/7 and plays every day with my other gelding, and looks to be in no pain, thankfully

thanks for the comments....
 
he will quite probably only need the ligaments "shaved" and not cut,
What I am hearing now is that this is not the great solution it was first thought to be. I had a gelding done several years ago, and honestly there has not been a really significant difference. He only locked up if he was stalled......and he still does that.

His best solution has been exercise/turnout. I have a 2 yr old now who has locked up off and on for a year - nothing seems to solve it for her except Karo syrup, she's significantly better when I am giving it to her but if I stop it returns and it's not something I'd want to make a permanent ration. She is out 24/7 in a field with a big hill, but she's just learned to move with the leg out of position. She will likely be done this spring as I haven't seen any major improvement.

Jan
 
It worked for me!!

Lynda you will not be able to drive this gelding in the condition he is in, so it is your call.

I can give you the e-mail of my Vet at the Royal Veterinary College here I know he would be happy to talk you through the whole thing.
 
rabbitsfizz said:
Surgery in his case should not be expensive as he will quite probably only need the ligaments "shaved" and not cut, and it can be done standing, a very small incision.
I've never heard it referred to as "shaving;" at least here in the States small incisions are made in the ligament to cause scarring. And frankly (if I may be as black and white in my reply as you were
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): this surgery is crap. I've talked to a lot of people who have had this done and it didn't work for a single one of them. The minute you stop super-exercising your horse they go right back to locking up, which to me is no solution at all. Kody had a long and miserable recovery from the procedure and ended up worse than before.
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rabbitsfizz said:
Yes, in some cases I would agree with not all needing surgery, although supplements don't really help at all.(Neither does exercise, all it does is delay the inevitable, and yet it is always what Vets will advise, I sometimes wonder if some of them bother to do any research into these things themselves or just repeat what someone else has told them!!!)
Supplements help keep the joint functioning, they don't do much for preventing locking in my experience. Given how hard chronic patellar fixation is on the stifle area, I would not hesitate to put my horse on a supplement to keep the joint lubricated and protected. Early-onset arthritis is a real issue with this condition.

Exercise will help with the condition if it is due to mild tendon laxity but I feel for most minis it has more to do with the angle of the joint and the length of the femur and tibia. Exercise, in that case, will not resolve the problem.

Annabellarose, selenium deficiency can in fact cause this problem. It's more a big horse thing but it does happen, especially in drafts if I recall correctly. The vet can do a blood test and if levels are extremely low then selenium supplementation may resolve the issue. Again, this is rarely the cause in the kind of cases we're discussing! I did have my horse tested back when I first got him and his levels were normal.

Obviously I do not know this horse and it sounds like maybe Rabbitsfizz does, but generally speaking you can drive a horse with the condition. I certainly did, since standing around just makes it worse and under harness was the only time Kody moved correctly and therefore stopped locking for the most part. I did a lot of dressage to address the problem and used work on the long lines as physical therapy after his splitting procedure. Things like backing up, pivoting, and holding the cart back down hills may be difficult for your horse so be aware of his limits and strengthen him slowly. Kody is SO much happier in his work now that he's had the ligaments cut.
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I hadn't realized just how much it was holding him back until it wasn't a problem anymore.
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Leia
 
The shaving worked for me, I can only speak as I found.

That is my only personal experience of this operation, but it worked, and it stayed worked and the mare was far worse than Kody...I truly thought she would have to be put down!

Yes, I know this horses lineage, and I know what is happening.

It will not get better it will get worse...do you know if, in these cases, it is better to cut to the chase, or wait until it is really bad??

Leia you had a bad experience with Kody, it was awful, but it does not mean it would not work for someone else.

Either way, my mare was done standing and it was a small operation.

Before the Vet actually "went in" he was not sure whether he would cut or (his words) shave some off- I am presuming he meant thinning the ligament??

The operation would have been done in the same way either way.
 
leia your in box is full
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so should i get him done regardless? of the vets opinion,

and please tell me why he will get much worse?

and what do you recommend leia for a feed supplement

thank you for any advise
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I think he will get worse purely because, in his case, we know it is both congenital and inherited, so I cannot see anyway it could get better.

Gluocosimine is good, my doctor recommended it to me to use for arthritis, there is no proof it works, but it does seem to get some good results and it cannot do any harm.

It did nothing for the gelding I had, it had no affect whatsoever, but it may be that he was too young and the test run was not long enough to make a judgement, but it has to be stressed that it is not a cure of any kind.

Leia, I know you drove Kody before his op, and I do respect your experience in this matter but I would not personally drive an animal with the condition.

I would be too worried about it locking up whilst I was driving, and yes, I do know that is almost impossible, but if you came to a sudden stop then urged the horse on when it was locked it could be a tragedy.

I have seen no evidence that muscle actually cures the condition, you end up operating in the end, so why not cut out the middle bit and have the op done sooner rather than later??

Why wait when it is not gong to resolve itself??

Lynda I know this is a big decision to make but I am confident that you will, as always, make the correct one for your animals welfare.
 

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