Dog topic... controversial

[shorthorsemom]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/06/girl-recovering-pit-bull-attack-am-i-dead/16806425/

Everyone should read little Emily Ruckle's story and give her a cyber hug. Her arm was ripped off by a pit bull last week. I have been following her story on facebook and her moms pain and suffering of watching her little 8 year old girl trying to recover from one of the most brutal attacks I have ever heard of. Her sister saved her life. This family lives not far from us.

Sorry in advance to all you folks who own or love a pit bull. This breed is not for everyone. I have met some truly great ones... that said... they are not for everyone and if my words and sharing only make someone think twice before they take on the responsibility of owning one.

This topic has touched my life a few times personally. My friend's son almost lost his leg to a pit bull owned by a friend and raised properly from a pup from a loving family. Dog just went off. It was a bad day.

Another friend of mine got one for her son.. obedience raised.. smart owners.. well bred dog raised from a puppy. She took the dog to a friends farm and something set it off and It killed a foal and tore up the foals mom and tore up the owner of the horse (also a friend of mine) The horse owners husband had a heart attack from the stress. It was a bad day.

Little Emily Ruckle only wanted to let a dog out to go to the bathroom, she had been raised doing dog rescue. It was a very bad day.

There was another local attack in Wilmington this week only days after Emily was attacked... a woman and her daughter were attacked by a roaming pit bull. It was a very bad day I haven't heard yet the outcome on the damages. Bless that man that read on youtube that the best way to make a dog release is to take off your belt and wrap around the dogs neck and lift up and put the dog into a choke hold so it will release. It worked on this dog and he saved the woman who was having her arm shaken and torn up.

I have loved dogs all my life and am not an advocate of cursing any one breed of dog.. having owned Dobermans in my past for almost 30 years I am well aware of folks fear of "dangerous dogs". That said... I still say.. many folks are just not aware of the power and damage this breed can do.

There are many breeds of dogs on the dangerous dog list but Emily's story deserves consideration and reading on this forum as awareness and humbleness and if only to bring a tear to your eye when reading about a little girl wakes up and asks "am I in heaven".

Pray for little Emily.

PS... do not turn this into a pit bull bashing thread. It is intended on bringing awareness and education for anyone who might be thinking of owning one.. especially if that person is not familiar with dogs. I have two members of my immediate family that own pit bulls.

I just feel strongly compelled to share little Emily's story. I have owned dogs all my life. This story has been an eye opener. Her mom's facebook postings are so much more graphic than this article. Maria Ruckle... her facebook is open to all. This posting is more about power of dogs and appreciation of life and hoping folks think long and hard about life and how your whole life can change in the blink of an eye.

 

[Debby - LB]

Omg I feel so bad for this little girl and her family. I will say i think certain breeds are more unpredictable and the pit bull is one of them. They were bred to catch and hold and since then they have been crossbred... so many bred strictly for fighting. I do not think they should be owned by just anyone nor be around little children at all.

Reading the story I kind of lost track when I got to the part where they didn't answer their phone, if they were so concerned about disrupting a wedding they should have turned it off. My main concern anytime I'm away is a call from family at home and I answer all, I HATE the practice of selective answering a phone. (It may just be how I use our cell phone since only 4 people have the number and it's for emergencies only)....just really gripes my butt for people to look at the number and not answer.

I will keep Emily and her family in my prayers and hope for some use of her arm. It is so good that she's can't remember the attack, unlike her sister who will be mentally scarred for life as will Emily's father who didn't listen to his conscience and do what needed to be done. It's a sad situation.

 

[Sonya]

So very sad. I've only known one pit bull in my life, it was my cousins and he was a sweetheart. Any dog can attack but the power and drive in this breed is so strong. I was attacked as a child by a dog but was very lucky the dog was old and on a chain and just scratched me up a bit. It was a neighbors Saint Bernard. The dog knew me well but something just went off in its brain, another neighbor came over and started beating the dog with a hoe to get it off me. I was probably about poor Emily's age. Our good friends had a chow, that dog was so mean, I felt bad for them when they had to have him put to sleep from old age but secretly I was relieved. I am not afraid to admit I don't like pit bulls, chows, Rottweilers, dobermans, German Shepards , collies or Saint Bernards.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Many years ago when I was considering my first dog I looked into the bull terrier. I just loved the way they looked. My dad's family had owned several and I had heard many of the stories of the dogs' possessiveness of their families and aggressive behavior. The breeder of the bull terrier told me they required a strong master. Since that is not my nature, I decided against that breed.

Is a bull terrier the same as a pit bull??

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Owning a pit bull in Australia has been Illegal since 2008. Like this poor little girl that lost her arm there was so many incidents that directly involved this breed of dog that they were banned in late 2008.

Like Shorthorsemum said the pit bull is not the only breed of dog that can be found to be dangerous around people.

Im certainly not a dog expert but I would bet money on it, that the way in which these dogs have been brought up & trained has a fair bit to do with it.

 

[Minimor]

Such a sad story. I have to wonder why the dog's owner did not want to have to dog in his own home, if he had some idea that the dog was a menace, or if he simply did not want to have a dog any more. If the former then it's too bad that he sent the dog to his son's apartment.

I know that people love their pitbulls, but fact is over the years I have known of several instances like this. A dog expert has told me that the breed is unstable--it is in their breeding, and is something to be aware of--the possibility that the dog may suddenly, without warning, turn on someone. Unfortunately Most of the cases I have known of the dog has gone for a stranger, not for the owner nor owner's family--generally it goes for a stranger that has done nothing to antagonize the dog, but has simply been passing by or is in the general area. Often it is a horse or another animal that pays the price.

I'm not saying they are bad dogs, but they are not for everyone--and owners do need to know what their dog is capable of. No one should assume that their pitbull will never turn this way--because owners have been surprised before, and they will be surprised again. The dogs that turn vicious in the blink of an eye are not all badly training/badly bred, contrary to what many people say or think.

 

[lucky seven]

My dog is a lab/pit mix, he has issues with people and we know it. We keep him confined and is not allowed to run free in our yard. We don't want anyone hurt but this dog is a loving member of our family and he also adores his doctor. He can't get into the vet office fast enough. We tell people not to try to pet him when he's in our car and if anyone comes to our home he is put in a bedroom with door shut. He's 12 yo.

 

[shorthorsemom]

tried to link something.. it didn't work

 

[shorthorsemom]

Bull terrier is a different breed. I love bullies but will never own one. My friend Mary is a breeder of bullies and said that they are a lot of dog and can often be not tolerant of other dogs. Since I enjoy a large dog family I realized that this breed is not for me.

That is what I ask... folks to self evaluate. I have had many people over the years ask me about a breed of dog they are thinking about owning. So often this breed is so wrong for their family.

I hear " I want a shiba inu for my kids because they look like a fox" Or I want a pit bull or rottie for protection.. or I want a husky because the blue eyes are so pretty.. etc.

This story tells us the bad side of a dog. No matter how it is raised, or how it reacts... it is a breed of dog that can take the arm off of a 8 year old girl in a matter of minutes. I don't ever want to own a dog that can do this kind of damage.

I once owned a min pin that if ticked off could bite the crap out of me. She could not tear the arm off a child. The ability of enormous damage resulting from this breed is off the charts. I can only imagine the resulting doctor bills for life.

I do not critique this family or their choices or answering their phone or not. This mom has spent many years helping dogs and working with rescue dogs. This is a nice family that is in living heck.

My examples I gave on my intro thread are dogs that were not abused... were not rescue dogs with unknown backgrounds. They were raised from pups in loving homes. It baffles me completely what it is that snaps in them.

I have lost two elderly dogs recently and have been surfing the rescue shelters locally. I am shocked by the numbers of pit bull dogs and pit mixes. Several of my favorite rescues have more than 60% pit bulls. It has been very enlightening but also frightening.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

What gets my goat is how many people don't really know a pitbull from any other bull breed. In some places mastiffs are considered pitbulls as are some smooth coated terriers and I've even seen lab and pointer crosses that are labelled as pitties. I am a big fan of Bullmastiffs, in some towns I could not walk my dog (if I were to own a Bullmastiff, rotti or other such dog there) with out a muzzle. I have known a few pitbulls, all seemed sweet and loving dogs...until they weren't. One was her owners lap dog for the first 3 years of her life, then she started attacking the door knob when people that didn't live with her came in. I don't mean before, I mean after they entered, closed the door behind them and walked away from the door the dog would attack the knob savagely. Her owner thought it was silly and laughed about it. I wondered. About a month later she started charging their horses and biting at them, tore a mares muzzle open... no provocation. Shortly after that she started running down the long driveway barking wildly when anyone passed on a bike, horse or on foot. There finally came a day when she didn't stop before the end of the drive, charged out and bit a bikers calf.. it was deep and stitches were required. The victim was a teen and the parents said, dog gets put down or we go to court. Sad ending but in my mind it was the inevitable outcome of not heeding the early warning signs and things could have been so much worse. People need to see the dog as it is today, not as it was last year or how they want it to be. I read an article recently about 2 pitbulls who attacked a child and the child died. The owners have now been charge with murder (2nd degree I think which means not premeditated) and the dogs are being considered a weapon. I agree with this, if you want to own a breed known to be aggressive or protective, you should be prepared to be responsible for that animals actions.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Good one Reignmaker...

I agree many folks don't know what one is. My husbands cousin adopted a dog from a shelter he said was a rottie Labrador mix. It was an adult dog. We went over for a lunch visit with our kids and lo and behold.. they have adopted a pitbull mix. Powerful dog, brindle in color and classic Pit head. I was shocked. My kids were very small then and I asked him to please crate the dog while we visited.

This dog was not friendly, had protective "tude" and eventually made them uncomfortable and nervous enough that they returned the dog to the rescue. They had also adopted a lab that had no manners.

These folks were the type of people that would go to the dog park... take the leash off of two dogs that they just adopted and then be shocked that they had to chase the dogs for 5 city blocks when they ran off. Dog park was not fenced. CLUELESS but very nice folks. Happens all the time. Shelters are full of dogs from very nice folks that are clueless to how to really raise and train a dog and so many people want a macho protective dog and have no clue what that means.

When I remarked to my husband's cousin about the town they were living in having restrictions on pit bulls running loose, he says..."but my dog is a rottie lab cross, the rescue said so". sheesh.

 

[Jill]

It's a breed of dog I would never consider owning. I know there are many sweet and loving pit bulls but I do think it's a breed with the propensity for aggression and the drive to fight. With having shih tzus, tiny horses, and pet goats, I couldn't consider taking on what I think could more likely pose a threat to those four legged members of our family compared to other dog breeds or crosses I think cut out to not of the potential associated with pit bulls. I like having big, protective dogs, but even if it is due to mix understanding on my part, we wouldn't feel safe having a pit bull around our little dogs especially. There are just too many other types of dogs I feel comfortable about and like to opt to take on a pit bull as part of our family.

My heart goes out yo the little girl who was hurt so badly and also to her family!y.

 

[shorthorsemom]

[SIZE=12pt]Breed ****** Attacks doing bodily harm ****** Maimed ****** Deaths[/SIZE]

1. Pit bull **********2792 ***********************677 **********263

2. Rottweiler *******514 ************************294 **********81

3. Bull Mastiff ******105 ************************61 ***********15

4. German Shepherd 102 **********************63 ***********15

5. Wolf Hybrid ******85 *************************49 ***********19

6. Akita **************68 ************************50 ************8

7. Boxer *************62 ************************29 ************7

8. Chow *************58 ************************39 ************7

9. Pit bull/Rottweiler mix 50 ********************15 ************15

10.Labrador ********50 *************************39 ************3

I found this information recently. It was attached to a much larger article. These stats were taken over a period of time. What struck me about the numbers was just how much higher the pit attacks were over the other breeds.

 

[Jill]

Those numbers are compelling. There is a huge margin separating #1 from #2 on the list.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

As the owner of a Rottie mix, I will say he is 'programmed a little different.' Thankfully the other half is coonhound whih pretty much makes him a big ol mush with a big voice. He's dysfunctional, but more of a 'gotta get da thing!' Kind of dysfunctional. More hound like than rott like.

But yes, he is protective. That's what I wanted. I am 22, live alone, and in the middle of nowhere. I wanted something that was loud and push came to shove would defend.

That being said he is also paranoid of plastic bags and tinfoil. Don't think he's this big burly critter!

I myself do well with very dominant horses, so I almost needed a dog with a little oomph. A timid or submissive one my personality would scare.

But no. Put bulls are not for everyone, they are programmed much like my Rooster is. I would say my guy would be unmanageable if he didn't go to work with me a lot. I'm a farmer and he spends 30 hrs a week chasing cows and cats with some structure. He's a heck of a cowdog. By the time he gets home he is DONE with anything high energy and had practiced using his listening ears all day. That's what a pittie needs too.

They aren't city dogs, they aren't family dogs, and they sure aren't everyone dogs. I've always liked my hounds, but for the life stage and career I'm in,, I would say a pittie would be my second choice.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My dad's dad came from England. Not sure what kind of bull terriers they have/had there at the turn of the 20th Century. But there were always bulldogs on my dad's farm in early Oklahoma. Three rowdy boys to play with them and a strong master. I've heard the story of one of their dogs attacking a calf and my grandfather running beside the two beating the dog with a baseball bat to make him let go. The story of another who chewed the tires off people's cars who drove into the yard. And the story of me playing in the front yard less than 2 years of age with our bulldog when a cousin came over. How dangerous could a dog be that a toddler was fondling? He walked through the gate and the dog had him by the calf of his leg before my mom could rush out of the house and grab his collar. All the old family photos show "Brownie" or "Brindle" somewhere in the picture.

So, are these family dogs bull terriers or pit bulls?

 

[shorthorsemom]

Sometimes I wonder if it is a result of over breeding as well. Probably why Labradors made the bite list... just because there are so many from being number 1 on the akC list for so many years. I have no idea. just a guess.

I also do believe this... Our dogs from a long time ago were different than now. My observation is this... Folks back when I was a kid typically had a parent at home. We had more room to run too and.. we played outside all day without ending up on a milk carton and we took our dogs out to play too. We had more time for our dogs... They played all day, were part of the busy family schedule and once they settled down at night they were blissfully tired, well socialized, happy mind stimulated dogs. It was ideal. We didn't have computers.

Now we have what I call "latch key dogs" Dogs who have owners that work all day... both parents work... kids go to school. I see dogs that are in a crate on average 14 hours a day from well meaning owners that say "he has more energy than I do"... These owners come home and want to relax. Or they go to a dog park and turn the dog loose and sit there and check messages on their Iphone while the dog self entertains and so often the dog might be squaring off to fight another dog with no intervention from the owner.

The dog that has seen 4 walls or bars all day is ready to wake up and check out the world. The owner is ready to check email... cook supper and run the kids everywhere on earth. Because the dog is hyper and has too much energy from lack of socialization, does it get to run errands all day or go to the soccer games? probably not.

When I had my dobies I came home from work and took them for a very long walk. I went to safe fenced in places and threw a ball. I went to dog obedience classes. Their minds were sane and they listened well and they were great for scaring folks visually when I lived alone...

I have friends who walk their dogs morning and night and tire them out. My dogs get plenty of out time and plenty of walks and plenty of training. At home they lounge and are happy and relaxed and social when folks come to visit. The ones that are wary of strangers may rest in a crate when company visits.

I have multiple dogs, each one with different needs. I have a fenced in yard but that is just the potty.. We put on a leash and go out for nice long walks. We do obedience training. I take my dogs places.

I hear ya furstplaceminis on owning a hound. One showed up here dumped on our farm. He was 8 years old when he came, un neutered, not so nice if you touched his ears and feet. He is now very social, walks nicely on a leash, lets me clean his ears and teeth and do his nails with a belly rub for reward. He gets to go places. I worked very hard on his manners and socialization. The difference in the dog that was thrown away and the dog I have now is night and day. His bark is still so loud it will make your ears bleed, but he does shush on command. He arrived 2 weeks after I told someone I could never live with a hound. funny but true.

I now do not pick breeds of dogs. I pick the dog. I pick a dog that suits our family. It does not matter the breed, I pick dogs that I know I can handle and that will be a good fit for our lifestyle. I know I am not a strong enough personality for a rottie or pit. I do know there are other breeds I feel connected with.. I love mixed breeds too. The right mix dog can be protective, well behaved and now that the akc allows mixed breeds to compete in obedience, the sky is the limit on choices.

What I wanted to bring up with this thread is for folks to think long and hard about the commitment of having a dog and think carefully on choosing a breed. Most horse folks are better at dogs than other folks. When I taught classes I could pick out the horse handlers in about 5 seconds of watching them handle their dogs.

If this thread just makes folks think twice about their decisions and choice of breeds, then I am happy with it. I would love to see less pit bulls in the rescue associations. The fact that there are so many is in my opinion proof that there are many families out there that cannot handle them. It is so heartbreaking to go to a shelter and look at the dogs turned in.

cheers folks.

Marsha... I LOVE those old photos. awesome. Thank you for sharing!

PS. Petey of the little rascals was a pit bull and he was well loved. I bet he was nice and tired at the end of a day from playing all day outside. Or. genetically he was a totally different dog all together than the pit bull of today.

cheers.

 

[susanne]

In the early 1900s, pit bulls were referred to as "babysitter" dogs -- parents were said to feel comfortable leaving their children out in the yard with them, certain that their child would not wander off or be abducted. Selective breeding is a double-edged sword. It can strengthen instinctive tendencies for good and for bad. I believe this is what happened with the pit bulls -- that protective loyalty has been perverted by sick human beings.

I have several family members who adore their pitbulls and swear they are not the least bit aggressive. Even if I were to believe this to be true, I would never allow one of them near any of my animals. Things can go wrong with any breed of dog (my sister's Maltese -- a very loving, gentle lap dog -- attacked our rooster), but pitbulls are equipped with jaws that are lethal weapons.

I'm wary of breed-specific legislation, as I do feel many problems are due to individuals rather than a breed as a whole, but there are commonalities that we cannot ignore, and since children and small animals depend upon us for protection, we must constantly be vigilant.

 

[Ashley]

I once knew a sweet pit. And then I watched her corner a grown man, attack my boxer out of the blue and attack a cat. She lives with two small kids and feel it's only a matter of time.

 

[chandab]

Marsha, the dog in the bottom picture sure looks pit, but I haven't seen enough of them to absolutely certain.