Dope 'Em

[bluerogue]

Well, I have to say I support your decision. You knew the horse best. If you tried for 3 years to help her over her issues, you tried. How many people would spend 3 years trying to help in that situation? In your place, I probably would have made the same decision. A horse (even a mini) who tries to really hurt someone is a danger to anyone who handles them, or comes in contact with them. That is not a horse I can sell, to anyone, with a clear conscience. That's also not a horse I would want around my family.

I had a sort of similar situation, but my mare wasn't dangerous the way yours was. She has an extremely high flight response. She won't fight, she'll just try to get away. She has knocked me over more times than I care to admit. But she never tried to hurt me. It took me 6 years, but she can be safely handled now, without getting scared (I do still go slow with her). That said, I would never let a child handle her, or a beginner. She will always have a high flight response. She will always be easy to scare. But she's happier now, and I'm happy for her.

 

[txminipinto]

Having dealt with a few minis that I deemed dangerous, I respect what you did. You worked and worked with an animal, could not alter her behavior, and you did the responsible thing and that was to put her down. With Dr. Taylor's arguement, my son has ADHD and ODD. When he is not on his meds, he is impossible to deal with. Is he a danger to others? Not really, mainly too himself because he cannot filter. If he were a horse, would I put him down? No. He can be managed well on meds and behavior modification.

But this is totally different than the other thread. The other thread is about using sedatives to make horses more managable when performing difficult tasks. Some consider it a short cut to training, others look at from a safety issue, and still others (like myself) consider it a way to facilitate training w/o anyone getting hurt. Sedating your mare MAY have made her more respectful to humans. Maybe not. Sedating does not change personalities and so if she had instinctive distrust to humans, sedating her to handle her would have probably had no effect. Had she just had an ear phobia, sedating her probably would have allowed you or someone else to handle her ears with out the frightening frenzy of head thrashing.

Its like comparing apples and oranges. Personally, after 3 summers I would have put her down as well if she was dangerous. There are too many good horses out there to get hurt by a one bad one.

 

[Sandy B]

Sometimes there are just "bad" horses, whether large or mini. Several years back we had a beautiful AQHA colt born, he was sweet on his terms. When it came time to halter break this colt refused every attempt. He would throw himself on the ground. We tried every "tool" out there, we tried bribing with cookies to tough love. I consulted other long time trainers and tried their tricks. He started jumping off the ground with all fours and flipping himself. It was suggested we tie him to a tree and let him flight it out. As a last resort we did. He would pull back (as you knew he would) and then flip himself down and hang there and NOT ever get up. Then I tried to use another horse and pony him, same results. BTW- we even tried using his momma in the beginning leading both of them. I could not even get him turn to the side using a butt rope (I usually get them to turn both directions before I even ask them to go forward, using a butt rope) . Finally one day after we gave up for a few weeks, we tried again. He jumped up, flipped himself and broke his elbow. It was natures way of culling a bad seed. I do not mean to sound do ugly, but its the truth. My husband and I talked many times about what this colt was going to be like when it came time for further education. We were in the process of locating a donkey to try that tie to the donkey approach, when he injured himself. If the donkey would not have worked, I may have waited until he was close to a year and tried one more time. If he still refused to be halter broke, I would have put him down in a heart beat.

 

[ruffian]

LaVern I know exactly what you mean. Years ago my husband bought a pretty mare who came through an auction ring ON HER HIND LEGS! Couldn't believe it. Fought to get her on the trailer, off the trailer and in a stall. She banged her eye up and we had the vet and had another battle. Tried everything with her, treats, firmness, you name it. After 3 years we still had to corner her to get her haltered, and then she would shake and sweat. She would bite, kick, strike and throw herself. I believe she was severely abused before we got her. I wanted to put her down after I was quietly leading her out to pasture and she rose and struck at me.

Then one day a guy came looking for a horse. He fell in love with her. I told him everything I knew about her and her actions and temperament. He was petting her and said "you know what she needs?" I said, yeah a bullet in the brain. But he was insistent that he wanted her, so I sold her and he was picking her up two weeks later.

I was so disgusted with her that I put her back in the pen with my daughters full size morgan gelding. I threw some hay in the pen, and she jumped into the middle of it and laid her ears back. The gelding simply picked her up by the neck and threw her across the stall. She got up and shook, and started eating at the edge of the hay pile. They were together the full 2 weeks. When I went to get her when the buyer showed up, she stood right there and let me put the halter on her. She nuzzled against me, and I led her out and brushed her up and cleaned her feet with no problem. Then loaded her up on his trailer. The way I figure it she must of thought that since we could handle the big guy that eventually we were going to kill her!

That's the only mini I ever knew that truly had issues, but I believe they were human caused. My sympathies LaVern, but I think you made the right decision.

 

[LaVern]

Thank you guys supporting my decision. And I think I made the right one. I don't feel like using medication would have helped.--- Oh, maybe it would have, but I didn't even consider it.

I think what I feel the worst about is that the mare wasn't scared like most horses are. She was defiant and was ready to take me on. And she always won. Man she was something to see in the pasture. She was always off by herself and if she saw me coming on foot in the pasture it was full tilt ahead until she got close, then she would snort and turn and kick out. I was the scared one. And she was just laughing at me. So when I couldn't win I put her to sleep. Guess I won?????

 

[valshingle]

I don't think medication would have helped with a personality/behavior issue like that. First, you would have to get the sedation into her and then you really couldn't keep her doped up all the time. It sounds like you made the best decision.

When we moved to TX, two dogs were left on the property by the previous owner. We had them 2 years and they killed many cats and possibly one of our smaller dogs (he disappeared). I never trusted them with small children or foals. While they were friendly with us, it just got to the point that I was afraid of what might happen. I did contact breed rescue organizations, but they wouldn't take them because of their aggression. So I took them to the vet to be euthanized. I felt horrible.

On the way home, I went to the pound and rescued 2 dogs on 'death row', a Great Pyrenees and an Anatolian Shepard cross. Both dogs are wonderful and I know I made the right decision. Love doesn't cure everything.

 

[bluerogue]

That's still very dangerous behavior, LaVern. I had a colt like that, and if gelding didn't stop it, I would have put him down. He came darn close to getting put down before we tried gelding. He did hurt me, several times, and the rest of my family was afraid of him. He was defiant, like your mare, and was out to hurt people (dislocated my wrist, my shoulder, knocked me down numerous times, and almost broke my wrist when we were getting him gelded- 4 vets, 3 students, my friend, and I all had to help get him sedated). Luckily for him, gelding him caused a complete 180. He was a total sweetheart after he was gelded. I did sell him to an experienced home, and he is happily driving in northern Nevada now with his new family. His behavior did cause me to dislike him, or I might have kept him after he was gelded. I did test him pretty carefully to make sure his previous behavior would not return before I sold him. He was solid as a rock, after the testosterone was no longer in the picture. His new owner was made aware of his previous behaviors, and they were prepared to handle it if it returned later on.

If gelding him hadn't solved his aggression issues, I would have had him put down. He was just too dangerous, and he was 2 when I had him gelded. He was well bred, very pretty, a great mover. I had hopes I could salvage his mind, and possibly keep him a stallion. But after 2 years, I figured we'd better try gelding. Euthanasia is an option, but I will try everything else I can first to fix the problem, as you did.

 

[Miniv]

With a horse like that, it's actually a "no-win" situation. You know she just couldn't have been very happy.

In the over 20 years I've been around these little guys, I've only experienced ONE real "killer" mini. And yes, I and everyone who I know that came in contact with him felt it was a mental issue.

We didn't own him. Larry was transporting him out of Washington and made a stop over here at home while he did some quick pickups of other horses. So the 33 inch stallion stayed in our barn. His destination was to a new owner in Texas. It didn't take long before we all realized there was something very wrong. One moment he wanted attention and the next moment something in his brain would snap and he would rear up, strike out, with teeth baring.

It turns out that his original owner was scared of him, which is why he was being sold. I was one of three people who were knocked down and bitten. He always seemed to go for the heart. Two of us ended up at an emergency room. One person was a professional horse trainer.

Because of the liability possibilities, the original owner agreed to take the stallion back and had him euthanized. I actually called the vet clinic where he was being delivered to and they verified that he was put down.

Even though the horse was potentially a killer.....and I still have a salad plate sized scar on my upper left arm after 8 years, when the clinic told me he had been put down just moments before I called, I cried. He was a mentally tortured being and there was nothing anyone knew of to make him better.