driving harness

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keely2682 said:
i had a cde cart maker design and build my chariot last yearit was well balanced- i even marked an area to stand to keep the balance correct

but it still did a number on my horse's back, as did the one i borrowed from lutke after mine broke

i bet my during and post nationals horsey chiropracter bill was over $500!!
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not to mention my poor mare was worn out for her other classes :DOH!
Awww, poor Tippy! I imagine the accident didn't help her back any.
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That cart was by Mike Groose, right? Do you have any pictures of your turnout? Bob Graham of Graham Carriage Works is hopefully going to help me build mine someday. I trust him to balance it, design it to outlast the End of Days, and customize it to fit Kody beautifully.
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I already spend a fortune on Kody at the chiropractors so as long as he doesn't throw his back out before his other classes, we're fine!
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That's yet another reason to use a really good saddle though. It'll help.

Leia
 
yes he did a great job designing that chariot

i have pics of it and additionally pics of the new` one i'm working on

i emailed you

you think that harness will help that much?

definately will be cheaper than chiropractic

plus tip would be happier i'm sure

i love her pink embriodered lutke but certainly not a harness to pull the chariot with
 
Great Topic!!
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Leia, I saw you mention sliding backbands - I'd love more info. I looked at chimacum tacks web site and didn't see anything about ssb.

I'm after a harness that will be most beneficail for the horse. I've thought a SBB would be great esp. for trail driving on unlevel and/or rough terrain.

Please give opinions on Sliding backbands. Are they commonly used? I've never even seen an ad for 1.

Could a ssb harness and/or freedom collar be used in the show ring (local 4-H type shows)? Trail driving is much more fun than showing but we like to hit a few local shows too.

Seems like the Freedom collar is highly reccomended - can it adjust to fit multiple horses or is it made to fit each individual?

Thank you all for the info. in this thread!
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Great Topic!!
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Leia, I saw you mention sliding backbands - I'd love more info. I looked at chimacum tacks web site and didn't see anything about ssb.

I'm after a harness that will be most beneficail for the horse. I've thought a SBB would be great esp. for trail driving on unlevel and/or rough terrain.

Please give opinions on Sliding backbands. Are they commonly used? I've never even seen an ad for 1.

Could a ssb harness and/or freedom collar be used in the show ring (local 4-H type shows)? Trail driving is much more fun than showing but we like to hit a few local shows too.

Seems like the Freedom collar is highly reccomended - can it adjust to fit multiple horses or is it made to fit each individual?

Thank you all for the info. in this thread!
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You guys are good for me- you're forcing me to upload pictures I meant to do ages ago!
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So on a standard single horse harness saddle in the U.S., typically the tugs are hung from two separate straps which are fixed to each side of the saddle by screws. They can swing forwards and backwards along the horse's sides but cannot move up and down to allow for the way one shaft raises if you drive along the side of a hill. In the U.K. and other more traditional driving countries that kind of saddle is frowned upon for two-wheeled vehicles. Instead they will often use what's called a "gig saddle" which is very wide and heavily padded in order to distribute the weight of a heavy gig cart across the horse's back. Gig saddles also have one other standard feature: a sliding backband. A sliding backband is just what it sounds like- the tugs are hung from one continuous strap that slides through a channel in the saddle, allowing the tugs to roll slightly around the barrel of the horse in order to keep the pressure even on uneven ground. This design allows the overgirth to remain snug at all times but prevents that situation where one tug is pulling down hard on the saddle and the other one is up in the air pulling on the overgirth. With a properly padded and treed saddle that's bad enough as it puts a lot of pressure on one side of the spine...with a typical mini saddle which is basically a flat leather pad you're going to get the saddle rolling around the barrel unless you cinch it so tight the horse can't breathe! :DOH! But with a SBB saddle the tugs will simply shift to follow the pull of the shafts, leaving the saddle itself untouched and the horse merrily driving along without interference from the cart.

So quick answers are yes, the SBB is very common in Europe but not here in the U.S. It is gaining popularity as more and more people learn to ask for it. You won't usually see it advertised but many manufacturers will make one if asked including Smuckers, Camptown, and I presume Chimacum since they use the same harness maker as Camptown.

Here are a couple of pictures of a Camptown mini SBB prototype I got to see in person at the National Drive in KY last October.

Closeup of the channel the backband runs through:

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The tugs pulled to the left:

SlidingBackBandLeft.jpg


The tugs pulled to the right:

SlidingBackBandRight.jpg


This one didn't slide quite as easily as I might like to see and the keepers on the bottom were too high to allow much movement but some WD40 and one quick modification would fix that.
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Here's a SBB saddle by Barb Lee that our local Intermediate competitor Merridy Hance uses at Happ's:

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As you can see there isn't much visible difference until you're up close so you could certainly use these saddles in any show ring and the judge would probably never even notice. Merridy's has a couple of metal brackets that the backband runs through near the terrets instead of having it go through a channel of leather; either one works fine although Merridy's slides very nicely.

The Freedom Collar is available in standard A or B mini sizes althought the strap length is customizable if you want them shorter or longer. It wouldn't fit in well in the breed ring but is common at CDE's and I'd think would be perfectly acceptable at small local shows of the kind where most people are using EE carts. It might not look as traditional as a patent-enhanced straight breastcollar but if your horse moves better in it that should more than make up for any aesthetic lack.
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Hope that helped!

Leia
 
can someone upload pics of different saddles too?

and don't forget the pad info
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Keely, you mean different photos of the undersides of various saddles? Like the built-in padding? Hmm. I think I'd have to go take those.

Amy seems to be off somewhere so I'll tell you the pad she uses on Ally is a Camptown Gator Pad. I use the Camptown Pillow Pad with the same saddle. Both are nice- hers offers a thicker amount of padding and mine is thin but has a wider footprint to cover the entire saddle skirt. *shrug*

Leia
 
Yep, I'm back. I use the Gator Pad, available through Camptown, and am VERY pleased with it. The Camptown has a "real" saddle, meaning that it is reinforced with a type of tree (sorry, having a sr. moment and can't remember what this is called in driving circles!), and has a nice spine channel to clear the spine. My Estate Horse Supply show harness also has a very nice saddle with a channel. The one harness I got from Mini Express just has a pretty flat, padded back, I don't like it even close to as well as the Estate show harness. I can take and upload some photos this weekend if no one else does.
 
Hey Guys !

I'm out of town for the week, shoeing up in Canton. They only have a very slow dial-up service so I'm getting behind.
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The sliding SBB pad sounds like something I really need. Is there a site to order from ? I'd query, but I'd be here all day waiting for results.

Thanks !

Vickie
 
Ask Janie, I plan to!

Amy, it's simply called a "tree" just like in a riding saddle, and just like in a riding saddle that "spine channel" is called a gullet.
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You're right that the saddle from Estate Horse Supply is very nice and much more padded than other mini show saddles I've seen.

Leia
 
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Ask Janie, I plan to!

Leia
I talked to Janie at Chimacum tack. She was great to talk with and very helpful with Harness choices.

I would highly reccomend giving her a call too. I'm glad I did!

edited to add:

Here's a link to youtube videos from the British driving society - http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ManuelCat - good videos!

Thought it maybe a good visual for some of the questions that are in this thread.
 
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Not sure if this will be of any help, But thought I'd snap a picture while I had them out.

Here are 2 different types of saddles on a harness:

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I'm no expert but harness 1(on the left) has an aluminum tree and harness 2(on right) is just padded.

Question: If you use a pad with harness 1 wouldn't it then be the same on the withers as harness 2?

Which saddle would you use a pad with or not?

For the harness experts please feel free to use the examples to explain differences in more detail, if you'd like.

I've been happy so far with both and mini's seem to be too. Saddle 1 is padded and with the tree probably better than 2.
 
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Jbrat, those are great examples of a good saddle and one kind of bad saddle.

I'd like to see the built-in padding on the treed saddle (#1) a little wider across and would therefore probably use an additional broad thick cushy pad to distribute the weight across a wider surface area. The shape of the padding is good in profile but it's nearly as deep as it is wide from the looks of things and that's going to localize the pressure more than is desirable. If the saddle were to rock forward or back a bit for instance, say from pressure on the backstrap, the edge would dig in uncomfortably on the horse's back.

The second saddle is surprisingly well-padded for a treeless surcingle-style harness and the padding appears graduated down the sides for a better fit but the lack of any kind of gullet is a major no-no. Major.
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That IMO is actually worse than using a less padded saddle that at least had a gap in the middle under the checkhook because with all that thick padding right over the spine there's actually going to be more pressure directly on the vertebrae. This saddle allows no contour at all for sitting up off the horse's back and has nothing keeping it centered against lateral pressure from the shafts. It's going to let the weight "sling" across his back instead of settling onto a supportive framework there and can easily roll if you drive on enough of a hill.
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I've (sadly) seen worse but this harness basically has no business being on a working horse. Can they use it and be fine? Yes. If you are very careful with how your cart is balanced, drive on good footing, and your horse is of a certain rotund conformation. But the more angular the animal and the heavier or more cumbersome the cart, the more likely the animal is to object over time.

Using a pad on harness 1 does NOT make it the same as harness 2 because while the pad will cross the spine there's no pressure down onto it in the middle, nothing to hurt the horse.

Normally I'm one to say pad every single saddle no matter what but I'm not sure it would make much difference on harness 2 as it's basically nothing but padding already and there's no spine channel to provide further clearance to by adding a pad. Normally the pressure areas on a treeless saddle sink in deeper to the aftermarket pad than the open but insufficient center section does and thus provides it with a bit of relief over the spine but in this case the spine area would be pushing down just as hard. All you'd be doing is cushioning the whole thing a little bit more.

Good examples! I'll try to post pictures of my Ozark Carriage Harness and Camptown Harness but it might be awhile. Don't be surprised if I drag this thread up in a couple of weeks or a month when I find them.
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Leia
 
IF you are showing in the DRAFT Harness class in AMHR sanctioned shows or at the Natioanls -- the rule book states

" All horses must be harnessed with Heavy Harness( collar & full hames). "

So, it all depends what type of driving you do & where you compete to have the correct set of harness.
 
please post which harnesses #1 and 2 are
#1 is on the left - came from Chimacum tack

#2 on the right - from amish harness shop here in Ohio

I have them numbered thru the photobucket editing but when I transfered it here the #'s don't show up.

~ ~thats funny last night when I posted the #'s didn't show up.
 
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OK Sorry about my confusion above :DOH!
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I fixed it!

Here's another question:

Would it be a good idea to add padding to harness 2 on the sides only, so that there would be a space/gap (gullet?) between the 2 pads, the gap would be directly under the Check hook on the saddle?

Best option would be to buy better harness with a tree but I'd like to try and do the best I can with what I have for now and keep learning more so next time I buy what I feel or have learned is best for our boys.

Thanks for the info.
 
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