Driving Training Questions

[Ferrah]

I have my two new carts and harnesses on order and I am really excited to get them. I am getting a regular easy entry cart and a Jerald cart.

I have a few questions about driving training for my horse.

I keep his sessions short and only once to three times a week. I try to do other types of groundwork (other than ground driving) on other days to keep him interested. I tried giving him some time off this winter for a mental break, as his little brother Cinnabar really does enjoy his time off. After a few days Spyder will pout and start beating on poor Cinnabar.

I have noticed that in his driving training Spyder oversteps a lot. He can overstep enough to be one full foot print a head of his front hoof print. I don't know if this is a problem for him to be over stepping this much. He has tripped himself a couple times doing this, especially on the straight.

Spyder over reaches the most on the straight where he does his best work. I have been working on his circles and bending, starting with large circles first. But, he does have a tendancy to drop his shoulder and run out of the circle.

I have trouble sometimes with keeping contact with Spyder's mouth. I used to show on the AQHA circuit and the emphasis was extreme on "get off their face, get off their face!" I have a lot of re-training to do for myself. Luckily for me, as soon as I lose contact Spyder will drop off the bit, lose power and stop. It's a good reminder for me to be there for him.

I have a question about the overcheck. I have gotten into the habit of not using it because when I put the overcheck on, Spyder flings his head...a lot. I keep the overcheck very loose, so it really is not doing anything and he still flings his head around. I checked if maybe part of the harness was rubbing or pinching somewhere, but I couldn't find anything. I even tried a different bit and the behavior didn't change. Is this just evasive behavior on Spyder's part, or is there something else going on? As soon as I take the overcheck off, he tucks his head and goes off happily.

My goal is to show Spyder in country pleasure driving classes as he moves more long and low like a Quarter Horse. One of my main concerns is that a lot of the country pleasure horses hold their heads quite high and step rather high. What is the "preferred" headset for a country pleasure horse? Is level with, or slightly above the withers? Spyder carries his poll slightly higher than his withers and he breaks well over the poll and reaches well for the bit. When the overcheck is on, he either flings his head around or he rubbernecks and breaks in the neck rather than the poll.

So far Spyder is able to do a lot of long and low work, as I am getting him to work in a long and low frame to stretch his topline. Lately I have been adding about 5 minutes of slightly more collected work to get him elevating and shortening his frame a little bit. he is doing well with this. I have also been working on extending his strides slightly.

Spyder has also been working on circle, serpentines, bending exercises and I have recently been asking for a little bit of lateral work. Any exercises that require a lot of concentration or control I don't do very much of yet.

Spyder has been in this kind of training for about 10 months now. I also try to do a "trail" ground drive around the neighborhood. He is traffic safe ans has been passed by busses and loaded semi trucks in harness and has not had any porblems.

I have ordered my carts and I will get them probably at the end of March, but when is an appropriate tiem to hitch Spyder for the first time? At what time of year, and after how many times in the cart is it reasonable and fair to ask him to try at a show?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Are you sure you don't want to do CDE's? :new_shocked: With that training you're right on track for an excellent CDE horse! :aktion033: Kudos to you. If he's overstepping that much you might want to get him a set of bell boots until he learns to stay out of his own way. Part of your problem with the overcheck may be that you are training your horse like a dressage horse- he RESENTS that check because he knows what he's supposed to be doing and he thinks the check is in the way even when it's loose. Kody didn't mind a check until I started real dressage work...then when I put him back into one for an AMHR show last year he started flinging his head just as you describe. I finally took it off for all our warmups and put it on fairly tightly just before going back in the ring. Tightly enough that it held his head up so he couldn't toss it. Then it came off the minute we were through the out gate. It wasn't an answer, but I wasn't going to ruin my dressage horse for one breed show. (And I'm not intending to bash breed shows here. I think you can compete successfully in both but you have to wait until your dressage horse is holding a preliminary frame before you will do well in the breed shows. I'm not there yet, Kody is still too long and low.)

The rest of it is honestly a matter of opinion. What the rules say and what wins in the real world are two different things as they are in so many places. I would say listen to your horse and your own experience, evaluate your goals, and go from there. You may have to make a choice for awhile between how you like to drive and the ribbons. If you can find local 4-H or open shows the style of driving you are currently doing should garner plenty of awards.

:

Anyway, I really posted just to say "good job" and encourage you to continue as you're doing. It sounds like Spyder is a very promising young man! I'd love to see pictures some day.

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with everything that Leia says.

I will just add ( and I am being restrained as I think my views on checkreins are well enough known) the rules say a checkrein must be on the horse- they do not say it has to be doing anything (in fact I can find nothing that says it has to be actually attached although I would think that this would be covered by the harness being correctly and safely hitched) The rules also do not say the checkrein has to be attached to the bit .

So I would continue as you are and do not use the check at all.

When you have him in the cart and going freely you can reintroduce the flipping thing if you have to but I would take another, good hard look at the "it isn't doing anything" bit as, if it were really as loose as you think it is (and this goes for Kody too, Leia) the horse would not be objecting to it!!!

Try attaching it to the noseband in the first instance and taking photos of the horse working without it and with it and you will see just how loose (far looser than the adjustments allow) it will have to go before it really is not doing anything. You will need to extend it to attain this- and I suggest you use a bungee elastic for this- when you finally come to put it all together correctly I suggest you keep the elastic- this makes the rein far more forging.

I would also suggest that, if you really cannot bring yourself to put the thing in the bin, you use only a side check as, again, they are more forging, and do not at any time attempt to use the rein to "set the head" you are already a long way towards getting a good, natural head set, don't ruin it with an unnecessary piece of equipment.

I would also like to say Well Done- as to the time to hitch him??

You will know that, I can assure you, and you can do that bit gradually as well.

Have another person with you when you do!!!!!

Good Luck and of course we have to have pictures of all this!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

When you have him in the cart and going freely you can reintroduce the flipping thing if you have to but I would take another, good hard look at the "it isn't doing anything" bit as, if it were really as loose as you think it is (and this goes for Kody too, Leia) the horse would not be objecting to it!!!

I know Fizz, I couldn't let the check out far enough to have it "do nothing" for Kody. That horse walks with his head down between his knees if I let him even in the pasture, I swear!

: That's why I unhooked it for warmup. It was better to have it tighter when it was hooked at all because on the last setting the sidecheck was so loose once he collected up that it was flapping all over and annoying both of us. That's the problem with long flexible necks....

Checks work fine as long as you start the horse with them. Trying to introduce them later is a real pain!

Leia

 

[Margo_C-T]

Sounds like you are off to a very good start on your horse, Ferrah--congratulations!

I would toss the overcheck in the trash(unless, at some point, you think your horse would Roadster; since checks are,unfortunately, required by the US miniature breed registries, you *could* use it(but NEVER tightly adjusted)in that class.) Get a sidecheck for breed showing; drive the horse both with and without it in practice, adjust it loosely but not floppy when you DO use it. You want him to accept it, but not to rely on it for positioning, as it creates only false collection.

As for the timing--have you already had the horse hooked-using a borrowed cart, older cart, or ????, or will the first time be when the carts you mentioned arrive? You just need to be sure your horse is truly ready for actually hooking up, if it's not been done before--have you 'poled' him with a 'fake' shaft in the tug loops? Has he had a cart pulled along behind him(and to each side, and meeting him!)by a helper, so he understands the sound and look? If he hasn't yet been hooked, those are some of the things to do before hooking; if he HAS been pulling a cart, then you just need to be sure that everything about either new cart is properly adjusted, and give him a good chance to get used to the feel of each cart, as they will pull a bit differently. He needs opportunities to drive with other horses, too, before he goes into a show ring. Just a couple of thoughts(there's much more to it, but that'd take a BOOK---LOL!) He should be steady in each gait, willing to stop and stand quietly, and back readily and correctly. The main thing you don't want to do, IMO, is to 'overface' any horse for his level of readiness, as that can mean setbacks instead of progress. Never hurry; you will have a better-trained, better 'lasting' using horse if you don't.

In my opinion(and that of MANY others), the country pleasure classes are OFTEN not judged according to the rulebook description... :noroperly, a quiet and calm demeanor is a large part of what constitutes a goo country pleasure horse. I would not worry about some 'exact' relationship of poll to withers height; that is a false comparison. A horse should go in the way that is natural for them; proper training should only develop its inherent abilities, not try to 'create' false positioning. A country horse should be not low-headed, not 'high-headed'. Long, reaching/ground covering movement, in a naturally collected posture; train your horse for what you KNOW to be right, not to suit someone who doesn't know what they are doing!

Is your horse 'overstriding' at the walk or the trot? I LOVE a walk that results in the hind print being fully in front of the front print-means a better moving horse, IMO!! BIG overstriding is not common at the square trot, in my experience-at least, not in miniatures. IF he is actually forging or clipping, then yes, some bell boots might be in order, at least until he is worked enough to be both 'fitter', and more in control of his movements. Once a horse truly begins to collect, lightening up the front, then things should improve in that respect--but of course, that can take AWHILE, so patience is definitely a virtue!

Finally, don't be afraid of light but firm rein contact; your horse has very little way to know what you want of him if you throw the reins away. Driving most definitely ISN'T Western Pleasure!

Keep up what sounds like your good work, and best wishes!

Margo

 

[disneyhorse]

Which breed registry (AMHA or AMHR) are you wanting to show in Country?

Sounds like you are off to a good start, I will echo the sentiments above.

As to the overcheck, my personal opinion might be to try switching to a SIDE check. I have found many horses are uncomfortable with the mechanics of the overcheck, which pulls their noses out and encourages the head flinging. A sidecheck naturally is a little more comfortable, pulling on the mouth only when the horse drops it's head and the contact of the sidecheck is a little closer to the contact of your direct rein. I put my own horses in sidechecks with an eggbutt snaffle (even my Modern shetland mare) when at all possible.

Since you will want him used to the check, you should hook it ALL the time, so he won't object as much. It's far easier to teach a horse to go without the check than to teach a horse that has the freedom to WEAR the check. The checkrein doesn't need to be tight at all, just find a comfortable tightness that doesn't flop around. I usually start my horses on the last hole, and then every few sessions they "lose a hole" if they are in training where they need to be checked up higher (pleasure or park).

I wouldn't worry about the overstepping, he just needs some time to figure out where his feet are It will change a little, too, once he's hooked to something and relying on his rear impulsion a little bit to pull the weight.

As to breed registry Country Pleasure... most horses you will find may be checked up fairly high. It really depends on the horse's natural neckset. The overall goal will be to figure out where your horse can naturally carry it's head and give an overall pleasing appearance. You will want the checkrein to be "a little loose" but not flopping, and you will want the head to appear "set" (i.e. vertical to very slightly nosed out... not nosing out a ton, but not behind the bit) because the judges only care about how the head looks "set" most aren't super driving fanatics I think!

AMHR has a new class for this year, Western Country Pleasure... and in that class the head will be set like your big Western Pleasure horses... with the poll at the withers or only an inch or two above. This will be a good class for the horses that don't have the Pleasure neckset but a lower one.

As to "when" you can hitch and "when" you can show... that totally depends on your horse. He sounds like he's doing great, and since you are putting so much groundwork into him he should transition to the cart really fast.

My little stallion was so easy to break, he had several months of ground driving, a month of hitched driving, and then he was Grand Champion at his first show! Breed ring driving is not very demanding for most quiet driving horses. There isn't a lot of commotion and it's only walk, trot, stand, and back. Usually the standing quietly is the hardest part for green horses so be SURE you work at that. Also work on backing with the cart, make sure your horse backs quietly and focus on getting him to drop his nose and tuck it in before he moves back, as judges don't care to see the head toss when you back up.

It's scary taking your green horse in the show ring for the first time, but if you warm him up outside first and see how he reacts you will probably have a smooth go.

Hope any of that helps, and good luck!

Andrea