Dwaft or not?

[Jill]

First of all, I think they both look very cute!

That said, I do feel both of them look "dwarfy" to me. The silver bay, to me, shows signs through the shape of her head and being really over at the knee. The palomino / grey one also looks somewhat dwarfy to me.

The past year of so, I made some tough, emotional choices with some of the mares I owned.

What I decided to do is really look at each mare and ask myself, if she were a stallion, would I breed to her? If the answer was no, then they were not right for my broodmare band.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I am not an expert on dwarfism, so I will leave that to the pros on the board. However, I do need to point out that large bellies have absolutely nothing to do with Cushings disease - just wanted to clarify that.

Liz R.

 

[Ashley]

I personally would not breed either of them, and if I had the means to I would have them fixed so they couldnt reproduce. To me they both show signs that are a bit iffy.

 

[qtrrae]

melissa,

Both of those little fillies are just adorable! I think they would make great pets but I agree with many of the others, they are so small and that alone would scare me for breeding.

I have 2 adorable dwarves and believe me they are just the sweetest and most loved little creatures. I would NEVER part with either of them.

Here is Treasure:

and Buddy:

They are both just a little over a year old, both of their bites are off, especially Treasure. They are constant companions and basically have the run of the area by our barn.

Good luck with your 2 little fillies, I am sure they would make awesome pets.

 

[shane]

hello and welcome :saludando:

i think that the first one looks as though it has dwarf characteristics imo

: i wouldnt breed them there is too many good horses out there,so as said you could be opening a can of worms, i wish you luck, and they look adorable

:

is there any chance that the dark one could be bred already?

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

I would say maybe I see some dwarfy characterictics (sp), but nothing alarming at all. There are 3 things would not let me breed this mare. 1) Confirmation is not desirable in the breed. 2) Too small. 3) Looks to immature.

I really doubt you can get your money back. For me a price would be $500, but hey thats just me. The market is too flooded right now and I'm lucky to get that on my good quality horses to be honest with you lol.

 

[hairicane]

Hi, I am very sorry but I think u will be getting the answers u dont really want to hear. But u did say u are wanting to show and breed so by asking I know u do want to do it right. For breeding u need to get the very best conformed horse u can possibly afford and breed her to an excellennt stud that corrects any areas she needs improvement in. Then u have to think long and hard on this. Are u ready and willing to go through 11 mths of waiting and watching and then when its getting close to foaling time will u make sure to buy foaling monitors and barn cameras( an approx $1000 - 1500 investment) and can someone be home 24 hours a day to watch and monitor the mare so u will be there for the birth? If not are u willing to pay a foaling out farm several hundred $ to keep and watch her for u? If yes to all that now for the hard questions, do u have $3000-$6000 to pay for a csection should she not be able to foal and are u willing and able to deal with the possibility that u may very well lose both the mare and foal even if u are lucky enough to get her to a surgical center to do the surgery? All of the above applies to ANY mini mare u breed.

About a 26" mare, I would never breed a mare that small, I am too scared. I have had foals get hiplocked and be malpresented in much larger mares and often there is just NO room to even reach in the straighten the baby out especially with the 1st couple foals they have. So from someone that has foaled out over 100 foals Im saying I would never take that chance. Some people do breed the tiny ones but they usually are very experienced and they know some mares and foals will be lost and accept that. They also know how to untangle bent back heads and legs and know they often will be inside their mares up their shoulders and plan to have help on hand as foaling out the tiny ones often means u will be the one physically pulling the foal out as the mare will not be able do it.

About your cute mares, they do not look like the extreme dwarfs some others have posted but there are some traits they do share. Are u sure that 26 inch mare could not have been bred? She really has a very distended belly as others have noted, I would not call that normal. And both girls do have short upper legs and the 26 " girl has rather large joints, I cant really tell if the lower legs are a little twisted but she does have large feet. There are many minis with some dwarf characteristics and often they dont show up till the horses are older. U say the seller said they are not dwarfs, did they say that when u bought them unprompted or did u ask them that? I just wondered as I dont have people come out to see my foals and say "these are NOT dwarfs just out of the blue" it would never cross my mind to say that . Of course if 1 was a dwarf I would tell them and would not be selling it. Anyway all this is just my opinion. Good luck with your horses.

 

[susanne]

Minis are good for many, many things other than breeding, and your two little girls are adorable and no doubt extremely talented at giving love.

HELLO,

HERE IS A PICTURE OF THE PALOMINO DAM.

I am not a breeder, but while the two fillies may be minimal, the dam of your palomino filly, to my eye is an achondroplastic dwarf, and I would hate to see any of her get being bred. I REALLY hate that she was bred!

In the early years of miniature horse breeding, it was commonplace to breed horses with this type of conformation, and the breed is still paying for the "short at any cost" mentality. Whether or not they are dwarves, if you truly are wanting to breed show-quality horses, I would not breed these fillies.

 

[Littleum]

I think if you're wanting to breed good quality (or better) neither of these fillies will fit into that goal. Any questions of dwarfism aside: I don't think these are the type of mares you want to build your program on.

As for selling... afraid you're in a pickle there. If the silver one were mine I'd try to give her away to a nice pet home who knows what it means to have a dwarf to care for. Otherwise I'd just keep her and look after her.

The palomino one... she doesn't look "dwarfy" just well... not pretty. $500 as an unpapered pet if she has a good pet temperment. If she wouldn't make a good pet, oh well.. another mouth to feed.

And speaking up for the seller- sometimes with small foals the dwarfism masquerades as "cute" and doesn't become really apparent for a year or two. Especially when they're verrrrrry subtle. It's entirely possible the seller sold them to you in good faith with no dishonesty, and if you pick up the phone, you might be able to work it out with regards to the silver filly.

:

 

[GMAMINIS]

BOTH OF YOUR FILLIES ARE VERY CUTE BUT I WOULD NOT BREED THE JUST DUE TO THEIR SIZE! I AM STILL NEW TO BREEDING AND I FIND IT JUST TO RISKY. I PREFER ALL MY MARES AROUND 33-36" AND MY STALLIONS 31-33" & REFINED BUT HEY THAT IS JUST MY PREFERNCE. VET BILLS ARE COSTLY ENOUGH JUST FOR MAINTINENCE ALONE AND I THINK YOU WOULD BE SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR A BIG EXPENSE IF SOMETHING DID HAPPEN. DONT LET THIS STOP YOU FROM WANTING TO BREED YOU JUST NEED TO FIND THE RIGHT HORSES AND MAYBE FIND A LOVING PET HOME FOR YOUR MARES :bgrin I WENT THREW THE SAME THING WHEN I WENT FROM WANTING PETS TO WANTING TO BREED, I SOLD ALOT OF MY MARES AND FOUND THEM WONDERFULL HOMES AND SAVED MONEY TO BUY WHAT I REALLY WANTED. ALWAYS REMEMBER ALSO "QUALITY NOT QUANTITY". BREEDING HORSES WITH BAD CONFORMATION ONLY HURTS THE BREED.

GOOD LUCK!!! :saludando:

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

here is a pictures of sugar the palomino filly in 2004 when we shaved her.

Maybe she looks better here.

thanks MELISSA

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Melissa, we are not allowed to post pictures of other people's horses without their permission. I don't know who owns that mare, but I do know she isn't yours. I'm sure the owner would be upset to find their horse a topic of discussion here. The same goes for your other thread where you posted pictures of your stallions' sires.

I agree with those that have said both fillies exhibit characteristics that would make me think they may be carriers, at the very least. The upper leg bones are too short, the big belly on the one and her head just smacks of the dwarf gene, in my opinion. I know there are those who think you can't see any evidence of the dwarf gene unless the horse IS a dwarf, but I believe you can.

 

[outlawridge]

Hello Melissa,

First let me say that your girls are very cute and you have received some good advice in the previous posts. In my opinion, yes, the first mare pictured is probably a very minimal expression dwarf. Her head is more of an indicator for me than her belly. Dwarfism comes in quite a few different ways and types. One type has the larger, more bulbous forehead and although that looks adorable, it is a dwarf characteristic. Other indicators in your mares, (along with the dam photo posted later) all would make me tend to believe they are at the least, carriers of the dwarf gene. April posted (I believe on page 2) excellent photos of two different types of dwarfs. The first I believe to be an anchondroplasia dwarf which usually is a normal horse above the legs with perfect bite, but the legs do not grow. They also can have other problems. The second is a brachycephalic type dwarf which usually has more severe problems including the pot belly, off bite, bulbous forehead and tinier. We share our lives with both of these type dwarfs as well and love them dearly. Each has their own difficulties and needs, but we address them with confidence, love and guidance including that from our wonderful dwarf mentor, Janell of Little Bit's (who is very knowledgeable about dwarfism and has written some very good articles. We are so thankful for you Janell!).

Should you breed these girls? in my opinion, absolutely not. Their size would scare me but more importantly is the dwarfism, that in my opinion, is evident as I stated, as carriers at the least. Should you decide to part with these precious girls, please consider having them placed with people knowledgeable on dwarfism and where they will never be bred.

Here are photos or our two beloved little spirits who have their forever home with us. The first is an achondroplasia dwarf, Little Joe. The second is our new charge from the Lord, Dolly, a brachycephalic dwarf with my husband on the day she arrived here.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/Out...ywithbabies.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/Out...Dolly-dave2.jpg

 

[Sandy_M.]

Melissa, I am impressed with your willingness to ask for suggestions and opinions. That's the way that we learn. :aktion033:

You've gotten some very good, tactful opinions here. I didn't read all of them so I'm not sure if this point has been brought up......breeding such a small mare would be a big risk, even breeding to a tiny stallion!!!!!!

The size of the previous generation MUST be considered, and if you can't go back at least several generations of 'tiny' on both sides then IMHO it definately is not worth the risk to the little mare's life and the resultant foal. :no:

 

[Tony]

I think that your two fillies are nice fillies that are under nourished and that if you increased their feed with a higher protein content that you will see remarkable change in them. I would love to have them if you were nearer to me.

Below is a 25.5" mare and her first foal this year. I am sure that there are some who will think that she is "dwarfy". I don't. I am not an expert, but I have the experience of quite a few years.

You can see more pictures here.

 

[horsehug]

Tony,

I remember when that colt was born and how excited you were He is awesome!

And nope, not a thing dwarfy about your gorgeous 25.5" mare!!

I'm glad you posted on this thread and I agree with you. In my eyes yes you are as close as you can get to an expert on miniature horses........ after doing this your whole life!

Susan O.

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

I thank all of you all for your information on our fillies. We will think about what we need to do as for as keeping them or selling them. My daughter who is 11 yrs old loves them, she was hoping that one day they could have a foal(o well). I was not award we couldn't post other people pictures of horses we don't own. I just wanted people to see the nice dam of the palomino filly.I am new to all this and still learning. I hope noone feeling gets hurt by what people said.If I can take it from people then everyone should. We post on here to get help from others good and bad.We ask questions to learn more about them. I would have not taught of my palomino filly has not beening a good broodmare until you all told me different.

thanks melissa

 

[midnight star stables]

Melissa, if or when you do decide to sell these two, I would say selling or giving them to Tony would be the absolute best for both your small fillies. Tony has the right stallions to complement these mares. Also, Tony would put them on the best diet for such tinny horses and could truly find out weather they are really dwarfs.

IMO I feel you are feeding them both way to much hay and stuff in general so if you slowly cut their hay and grass intake to just a bit each day and increased their feed with a higher protein content with the use of a Good Grain, maybe a complete one, but not sweet feed or oats... they will look less round. Being so round could lead to flounder, one of our members Just lost a mare to this!

 

[Lauralee]

I'm with Tony. These are little bitty girls, and after having raised a dwarf, these mares do NOT in any way resemble dwarves. Granted, there may be some conformation flaws within each one, but I don't see a dwarf in either of them.

And for the record, MY Dwarf was sired by a Reserve National Champion!

 

[backwoodsnanny]

And the Beat goes on!!!!!!