Escalating dog aggressiveness

[LindaL]

At my house are 3 dogs...a 12 yr old neutered male Min Pin "Gunner", a 4 yr old spayed female Yorkie "Stevie" and a 1.5 yr old spayed female Aussie/Border Collie/GSD (mix) "Abby". I have owned Gunner since he was 9 mo. old. He has been raised with several other dogs, both male and female with no aggressiveness (except when food is involved and we never feed him near other dogs). Deb has had Stevie since she was a young pup and she gets along with everyone. Abby was brought into the mix a yr ago at @ 6 mo. old and until recently we have had no aggressiveness issues with the 3 dogs. Recently, Abby has been getting more increasingly aggressive with Gunner. Her hair on her back/neck goes up and she will literally "stalk" him...an example of this is...we will be in the living room (all of us except Gunner) when Abby will hear Gunner approaching, she will jump up, get into her "stalking stance" and go towards Gunner with her hair up. Gunner feels threatened and he will then get defensive and then there is growling, teeth snarling and the "threatening barks". SO FAR I have been able to use the "leave it" command on Abby and get over to Gunner and scoop him up before a true fight breaks out. But, it is getting worse and I am afraid that one day I will not be able to get over to them in time and Abby will hurt Gunner. Abby is not aggressive in any way towards Stevie. Stevie is not aggressive towards Abby or Gunner. Gunner is not aggressive towards Stevie and like I said is only aggressive towards Abby if there is food around or he feels threatened.

Why is Abby starting this behavior? How do I stop it? I want all the dogs to get along without fear that one day one of them will hurt/kill another. I had even thought about bringing in another (new) dog, but now there is NO way!

Abby is a "timid" dog. Around people she doesn't know, she shies away and tucks her tail. She shows no aggressive behavior at all towards people. She is not a confident dog at all. Do you think she is feeling "threatened" by Gunner in some way and I am not seeing it and putting it all on her?

Help me figure this out please.

Oh, let me say that....MOST of the time all 3 dogs will get along, so it is not ALL the time that Abby and Gunner are about to get into it, but it is increasing so now it is at least once daily.

 

[Hosscrazy]

One of my dogs is exhibiting similar behavior so I'll be interested in the responses. Shy/timid around people, and becoming aggressive towards one of our dogs. She's a spayed Chow/Rhodesian Ridgeback mix. Look forward to the posts.

Liz R.

 

[Ashley]

I had kinda of a problem like this. The little male dog in the house hated the bigger male dog. HE would constantly growel and follow him. It would pretty much end up in a fight. I rehomed the one who wasnt at fault as he had some other issues as well. The other male is still looking for a home, but as an only dog or only with one other female dog.

Chances are Abby got sick of being tormented and is standing up for herself. Unfortunantly I have not known a case of dog v dog agression to be able to be fixed.

Good luck to you.

 

[Riverrose28]

As for why? Can't really answer that except that since she lacks confidence maybe she is trying to dominate him, because he is littler and male. I have english bulldogs, we also have issues with the occasional fight. If I see one of them start to show the slightest sign of aggression, such as you describe with the hair up, etc. I immediatly get in front of the aggressive one, give them the look and make a sharp noise, or tell them to turn away. Once they turn away i give them praise. The reason that I intervene is that I am the leader and they must listen to me! I f they should get into a fight, be careful about grabbing collars, as they could take that as aggression, and snap your hand. When you remove the little guy you are doing exactly what the larger dog wants, not to have the other dog in their space, or in the pack. If getting between them doesn't work, you might try putting both dogs on a leash and get some treats, have one person control each dog, try to get the dogs to look at the persons face and when they respond give them a treat, so when you introduce the two together and some one shows aggression, ask that dog to look at your face, when they do give them a treat, you have taken their attention away from the fight. Do this with both dogs and slowly move the dogs closer together, keep leashes on in case of trouble. It may take a lot of patience and a couple of trys, but it is worth trying.

 

[Sterling]

You mentioned that Gunner is 12 yrs. old and Abby is the younger one of the group. Perhaps she is sensing the age in Gunner and her being the younger of the group is trying to start to assert her alpha role in the pack. Between Gunner and Stevie, is Gunner the top dog? In the wild a pack of wolves will wait until the alpha gets to getting up there in age and start pushing his or her buttons to see if they can take him down the totem pole. This is just off the top of my head taking in consideration the info you gave on each dog.

 

[~Lisa~]

IMO the fact she is "stalking" him is simply due alot to her breed instinct. Of course it was not meant to be used on a min pin.

I have a lot of dogs and we do have the occasional bitch fest moments right now they seem to pick on our older male Chi- he hurt his leg a while back and while better now he can not jump on the bed or couch if he waits to be picked up and put on either they all go after him (he used to be pretty alpha) Iam not sure if it is cause they sense a weakness although usually all it takes is a quick yell from me and they leave him alone.

I have one pretty snotty dog who is usually involved in any disagreement and I have seperated her not the others when she has an attitude. She goes to sit in the bathroom alone for a while if she is still growly when she comes out she goes right back in

For the most part my pack gets along pretty well and I also have to say often in fact 90 percent of the time if there is a scuffle and I stay out of it they end it themselves in a matter of a minute or two. Just someone having to feel they are right and wanting to make sure the other agrees although most of my dogs are pretty much the same size.

Maybe giving her the time out instead of getting him will help?

 

[ErikaS.]

I agree with Sterling. My feeling is Abby is trying to take Gunner's place as the "beta" dog a step down from you guys, the alphas. He is getting older and she is just coming into her prime. We have three dogs here, too; when Laddie joined our pack, there was some jockeying for position. It's all settled now. I guess what we did (can't say what worked best) is made sure that we the humans reasserted our roles as alphas: no preferencial treatment for any dogs- no dogs on the couch, on the bed, in our laps, everyone must be invited to be petted, everyone must sit for a treat or treats go in separate bowls, and if fighting starts over a toy or dogbed- it gets removed for a while or placed somewhere else. Now, maybe you are already doing this. Just saying worked for us. I still have to remind the dogs sometimes to behave, but it's not nearly as bad as it once was.

 

[LindaL]

I agree with Lisa on Abby's "stalking" is actually her "herding" instinct...but sometimes it goes past that.

I have thought about the fact that Gunner is older and also since Abby is becoming more mature, maybe she wants to let him know she is over him in the pack.

It just makes me nervous since Abby is a lot bigger than Gunner and Gunner is just too old to really defend himself. I do love all my dogs, but...Gunner IS my "baby"...However, as I say that, I spend way more "time" with Abby, just because she demands attention while Gunner would rather sleep under his "blankie".

I use the "Leave It" command on Abby and most of the time it works, but it depends on how focused she is on Gunner and not me. I do put Abby in time out.

I doubt I will ever just let them "figure it out themselves"...too much of a size/strength difference there.

 

[Katiean]

Ok, I have the same problem. Brandy my GP mix (spayed) has never been agressive to anyone. She is almost 2. We have had her since she was almost 7 weeks old. She works well with the horses, chickens, rabbits. But, one day we had a stray cat comming in the house. She started chasing that cat out of the house. Now there are a couple of our barn cats she is chasing. Then the other night she jumped on one of oour Chins. She didn't hurt her but she scared to life out of her. She has been around the little dogs and the cats since she was a tiny pup. So in addition to Lindas problem anyone have any suggestions. I already use a driving whip that the dog has never been hit with but it strikes fear in all of them. Usually all I have to say is "Do I have to get the stick?". Not working.

 

[supaspot]

when the same thing happened with my dogs (younger bitch challenging older top dog) everytime there was confrontation I would "back up" the top dog by standing beside her and using a loud firm tone towards the younger dog and then making a big fuss of top dog in front of the challenger ,making it clear that we are above her , within a few days the problem was solved , she tried once more months later , I did the same thing and it never happened again

 

[susanminiponygirl]

It sounds like Abby has some very dominant dog breeds in her background. We had a male Maremma, similiar to a Great Pyr who had extreme aggression problems. As he got older he wanted to dominate the other two males that he had gotten along with before. Painfully, we had to put him down as he was actually trying to kill the other dogs. You may have to keep your dogs separated and try to give them equal time with "Mom", you don't want to risk an injury to the smaller dog. Sorry to be such a downer.

 

[uwharrie]

You need to establish yourself as alpha. When she growls or makes other aggressive moves towards the smaller dog you need to use a loud growling voice to and tell her to STOP IT or QUIT ( or some other word) You may need to get physcial with her, no not hitting but grab her by the scruff of the neck and force her down all the time while using that loud growly voice. Even with that due to the size difference I would never leave them together unsupervised.

I have lived in a multi dog household for 25 years and have found as long as they respect me peace is usually maintained.

I did have two ******* (both intact at the time) that hated each other, I was able to maintain peace until the older one started showing signs of weakening, after that I had to keep them seperated.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I am not in favor of alpha wolf rolls and growling and physical dominance. I don't have time this morning to post a long answer but I wanted to post quickly for you to not to start getting tough and physical with the dog doing the reacting and attacking. From the dog's point of view this could escalate the aggression and reinforce the behavior.

Kind of like throwing gas on a fire. You need to break down the situation and try to figure the trigger and desensitise the part that is causing the reaction, not correct the reaction itself.

Anyway... Alpha wolf rolls and scruff shakes do not work for the long haul, they might stop a particular attack, but you have not taught the dog how to handle the individual situation and unless you can watch them 24/7 you are asking for trouble to arise at another time.

Kind of like smacking a dog for growling. You think you have taught the dog not to growl but instead you have taught the dog not to warn you when he is upset. Equivalent to turning off the ticker on a bomb. You still have a bomb, it is armed, it is just not making noise to warn you it is going to go off. Your dogs are giving you huge communication that they are in stress and that is what you need to break apart and analyze.

I agree with the other post that you need to re-establish alpha. That much is true... the problem is that once you have lost Alpha, re-establishing alpha in your pack must be handled with great care. You have seen wolf pack members correct a member trying to move up in the pack. It can get really nasty. If you already have alpha status your mere presence in the room can keep dogs from fighting, once you have lost alpha, you need a bit of work to re-gain peace and pack order respect in your home.

One way to get two dogs that hate eachother is to get them to associate food treats and praise with the other dog entering the room. That one suggestion needs some longer dialog, just wanted to throw it out there.

If you can find the TV show "It's me or the dog" Victoria Stillwell does some excellent cutting edge training with situations on dogs very similar to yours.

Ignore Cesar Milan. He makes me cringe on his training tactics which are equivalend to caveman tactics and teaching dogs to shut down. He does "flooding" training which was popular many years ago, we know better now. The only thing I agree with is that he is in favor of exercise and not just praising a dog for breathing in and out.

Be very careful you don't leave your dogs alone together as a start. Your min pin could become lunch.

best wishes

Adair

 

[Katiean]

If you already have alpha status your mere presence in the room can keep dogs from fighting, once you have lost alpha, you need a bit of work to re-gain peace and pack order respect in your home.

The above statement makes sense.

The only times my GP mix has shown aggression is when someone (fur family member) doesn't mind. We had a litter of puppies and one of the other Chins wanted to get in the box. My mom said no and that is when Brandy Jumped on the offender. She knows that when I am around she doesn't have to "Correct" anyone. I will do it. I mean if the chickens get out and she is out with them she is fine. If I tell the hens "Back in your pen" she starts to "make" them obey". If one doesn't go I tell Brandy "PIN" and she will press the hen down with her nose until I can get there to pick it up and put it back in it's pen. It kind of makes sense about the cats too. We had the intruder cat. She is just having a bit of trouble defining the boundaries on that on. Thinking a cat is a cat. I guess we will have to work on that one a bit more. Just like with the chickens. Also, the aggression to the Chin female. She was just trying to enforce what Dizzy was told. She didn't hurt her she just slobbered her up a bit and scared her. I think things will be fine here as we begin to understand the mind of a GP.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

If you already have alpha status your mere presence in the room can keep dogs from fighting, once you have lost alpha, you need a bit of work to re-gain peace and pack order respect in your home.

The above statement makes sense.

The only times my GP mix has shown aggression is when someone (fur family member) doesn't mind. We had a litter of puppies and one of the other Chins wanted to get in the box. My mom said no and that is when Brandy Jumped on the offender. She knows that when I am around she doesn't have to "Correct" anyone. I will do it. I mean if the chickens get out and she is out with them she is fine. If I tell the hens "Back in your pen" she starts to "make" them obey". If one doesn't go I tell Brandy "PIN" and she will press the hen down with her nose until I can get there to pick it up and put it back in it's pen. It kind of makes sense about the cats too. We had the intruder cat. She is just having a bit of trouble defining the boundaries on that on. Thinking a cat is a cat. I guess we will have to work on that one a bit more. Just like with the chickens. Also, the aggression to the Chin female. She was just trying to enforce what Dizzy was told. She didn't hurt her she just slobbered her up a bit and scared her. I think things will be fine here as we begin to understand the mind of a GP.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

Your Abby may do better, and feel more secure, in a one dog family. My Maremma was so totally bonded to me that the other dogs could not even make eye contact with me. I think it was that total bond that made him so agressive to the other animals, I don't think that behavior is a trait of the breed. He was very gentle and good natured with people.

 

[shorthorsemom]

The fact that Abby is a timid dog by your description might be a key to her behavior in your situation. Timid dogs often can be reactive and show attacking behavior, it is directly related to their insecurity. I would start by doing some confidence building with Abby. Work with food. Clicker training is a good idea. If you don't have a clicker, click a pen or something similar to make a click. Get her used to the click equals food.

You should work with your min pin separately. Use their name first, click then reward so eventually you can work up to rewarding one dog in the presence of the other. Work separately with each dog to start. You might want to find a local trainer to help, hard to give enough information on the forum, but I wanted to get you thinking about a few ideas.

On timid attitude with people, you can set up Abby for "successes". After teaching her that her name followed by a click... equals food (special food, cheese, chicken, something awesome)...then you can have her on a leash in a room, have a stranger enter and as soon as they come in, say her name, click then reward. Repeat often so her response is immediate, stranger enters and she looks to you for food and praise. If done with good timing, Abby will start to look to you for reward and treats when strangers come into the room and also when your min pin enters the room if you subsitite the min pin entering and same training senario. Eventually you can have the stranger toss food treats, but that is much later and with a great deal of conditioning. of course the min pin cannot toss treats, but you can food reward each dog for proper response and passing the other dog without reaction.

PS, I have had good luck with DAP pherome diffusers to reduce stress levels in the house, and Telling touch techniques can help as well.

Teach Abby that min pin enters room, or walks past her quietly equals food. Person walking min pin can work separately with food treats for not reacting to Abby and walking past quietly.

This food reward association system works well. As example... A dog hates their foot handled or touched. You start with click and then reward. You work up to reaching toward foot, then reward.... When dog is comfortable, try touching the foot and then food reward. If done slowly and calmly your dog will be begging you to touch their foot. Use a "super treat". I food condition with all my dogs.

I have a dog Bonnie that I adopted that would bite when somebody touched her ears. She had an ear infection that needed treatment. She hated strangers touching her or petting her head because the ears hurt. I started de-sensitization to the ears with the "touch the head, give a treat... touch the ear... give a treat. I had a helper hold a treat while she licked it, while I lifted the ear. When she was comfortable I was finally able to clean and treat the ears for infection. I did the same with her overly sensitive feet, now I can trim her nails. I have a treat bag I hand people when they come to visit. Rather than looming over her head and trying to pet her, they drop treats on occasion and ignore her. Eventually she got very comfortable with people coming to visit and they don't need the treats any more. I have taught her that invited guests are ok. I remind guests that Bonnie needs a little warm up time and to ignore her until she decides she is ready to say hi.

Try to write down your observation as to exactly what leads up to the aggression and display. I was taught by Ian Dunbar in a seminar that a dog that growls, snaps or postures but does not actually bite and attack is actually showing "bite inhibition" and are trying to tell you they are stressed and upset. The bite is coming, but for now they are warning. If you don't listen and fix the warning, you will work up to a bite..., you need to break down the senario and work on the individual parts leading up to the stress and work on the components separately. Stepping in and reaching for a dog in stress mode can cause the dog to bite. Hitting a dog for growling can silence the warning and create the "bite with no warning" senario.

You can body block and step between and use body language to establish alpha, but reaching for a dog with your hands can cause a bite to occur because your dog is escalating quickly. Your dogs probably won't back down or work it out without some training intervention. Some dogs just don't like each other. Those occasions I would recommend never putting those dogs in an unsupervised situation.

I have had min pins, one was easy and died too young, the other one lived 18 years and even when blind and deaf the entire house of dogs feared her. She never backed down and no training as I described above worked with her, so there is always the "exception to the rule" dogs too. Hope you work it out, peace in the pack is so important for peace in the house. best wishes.

 

[Marty]

I had a border collie for years and they are smart as can be and get bored easily if not being used. Abby is young and needs something to do. She's got too much time on her hands that needs direction such as a kid with ADHD. Abby's combo of breeds says to me she is bred to be a working dog and a hyper one at that. That dog needs a job to keep her mind busy on other things. She needs to go work cattle or do agility, something like that. Abby needs a job where she can practice every day and wear her little butt out and be happy to lay down nicely and behave herself at the end of the day.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Great detailed advice from Shorthorsemom! I've run into a lot of this with my two minis and for us the individual work, building confidence and establishing that Mom (me) will do any correcting that is necessary have been key. If Kody is confident in my affection then he leaves Turbo alone. If he isn't glutted on Mom-time, allowing him to feel he can afford to benevolently watch while I play with Turbo, then Turbo is dogsmeat.

I'm very firm about being the alpha in a way I never had to be when Kody was the only mini because it takes that sort of firmness to keep my "beta" in check.

Now you have a totally different situation in that you have a young, insecure animal trying to become alpha and of course loving up on the other dog like crazy in front of her isn't going to help. But I agree 100% that Abby needs some one-on-one time with you doing confidence building and bonding to you as the alpha because then she will learn, as Kody has, that she needs to focus on you instead of the other dog and that it is YOUR job to deal out any discipline, including to her for dominance scuffles in your presence! Once she's less insecure she won't feel such a pressing need to prove herself by going after him and that's all to the good. Then, as Adair said, making Gunner and new people a source of good things will get the kind of tolerance nothing else will. She still won't like him and will still want to be boss, but she'll tolerate him and learn to control herself.

Given the size difference in your dogs I still would not leave them alone together as even a brief tussle where Abby meant no permanent harm could injure Gunner and there probably will be those tussles no matter what you do. It's only their nature just as it is for the horses.

Leia

 

[ClickMini]

Linda, you are right not to let this get further. I lost my 16yo Jack Russell Terrier a year ago this month to one of our big dogs. The big dog felt she was my lieutenant, and that she should "help" me. When my JRT squatted down and started peeing on the carpet, I yelled, "Oh No, Russell!" and started running toward her to put her outside. Well, Willow beat me to Russell, grabbed her and started shaking her. It was an AWFUL moment. I took Russell to the Emergency Vet, and she did make it through the night, but I had to put her down the next day. I really worked with Willow after that, and controlled the environment as much as possible, but in the end it wasn't enough and she attacked my Pug one day and caused a partial prolapse of her eye. The next day I took Willow on an awesome run out on the property, went to McDonald's and bought her 10 Egg McMuffins, then took her to the vet, laid down with her on the floor and hugged her and talked to her as she was gently put to sleep. It was THE HARDEST thing I have ever had to voluntarily do. She was a major "people person," and I just loved that dog!!! She was funny, because when she was here she would be so friendly and happy, but if you took her off the place she was scared to death. I got her when she was out of puppyhood, and she had had some bad experiences. She was mentally "broken." There will ALWAYS be a Willow-sized hole in my heart, but certainly that is also true of Russell Anne!

Here is a very good book to get, to help you understand how the reward systems work within aggression, and how you can use reward to get out of it. http://www.amazon.com/Click-Calm-Healing-Aggressive-Clicker/dp/1890948209

Honestly, you are working against the inborn nature of your young dog. I would absolutely employ a behaviorist (NOT a trainer) to have them evaluate your situation and work with you to resolve them. This will NOT go away without some intervention, and this is not a situation for armchair quarterbacking.

Best of luck to you, I hope you have a better outcome than I did.