There's nothing to say I couldn't marry one of my unemployed female friends and have the insurance benefit of that as well. So, straight people won't/don't screw the system, only gay people?
Even more frustrated now...
- Thread starter alongman
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I missed the other thread as it was Christmas time and I was too busy but I will gladly give my opinion, now. I am all for same-sex marriage. Why shouldn't these people have the same rights as everybody else? As far as religion goes.......I am Catholic. I went to Catholic elementary and middle school plus I went to a Catholic college but I don't follow everything they preach such as birth control. I'm sorry but why am I going to let a religion tell me not to practice birth control. I feel that this is the same type of thing.........There is no religion that is going to tell me that gay people should be discriminated against. By not allowing them the benefit of marriage it is discriminatory in my eyes. Since my children were little, I've always said you need to be accepting and loving of all people and to me that is being more of a Christian than any church that preaches against a gay lifestyle.
Riverrose28
Well-Known Member
I was reading and interested in the other thread, as well as this one, don't remember who asked for different people to chime in, but I'm willing to express my thoughts on this matter.
Yes I'm a Catholic, but aren't we all created equal? Aren't we all Americans? Shouldn't we all have equal rights?
Seems to me not too long ago that women couldn't vote because of their gender, that Native Americans and African Americans couldn't vote becuase they were of a different race. A white woman couldn't marry a person of color. These things were all changed thanks to having their voices heard, by marching, protesting, sit ins, etc. you get the picture. Some people are afraid of spiders and snakes, why, becuase they don't take the time to get to know them, the same thing applies to people of different cultures and lifestyles. I believe that some day gay marriage will be allowed in all states of the Union, if enough people make their voices heard.
I'm not the most educated person and sometimes I have a hard time communicating, but I hope you get my meaning.
Yes I'm a Catholic, but aren't we all created equal? Aren't we all Americans? Shouldn't we all have equal rights?
Seems to me not too long ago that women couldn't vote because of their gender, that Native Americans and African Americans couldn't vote becuase they were of a different race. A white woman couldn't marry a person of color. These things were all changed thanks to having their voices heard, by marching, protesting, sit ins, etc. you get the picture. Some people are afraid of spiders and snakes, why, becuase they don't take the time to get to know them, the same thing applies to people of different cultures and lifestyles. I believe that some day gay marriage will be allowed in all states of the Union, if enough people make their voices heard.
I'm not the most educated person and sometimes I have a hard time communicating, but I hope you get my meaning.
KanoasDestiny
Well-Known Member
Alongman said...There's nothing to say I couldn't marry one of my unemployed female friends and have the insurance benefit of that as well. So, straight people won't/don't screw the system, only gay people?
I never said anything about gay people in my post. I believe that people who are gay want marriage for the same legit reasons that straight people do, but I think same sex marriage would give "straight" people the opportunity to screw the system.
As I said in the other thread, I fully support gay marriage. My best friend's sister is a lesbian and I want her to have all of the same rights with her girlfriend that I have with my husband. However, after watching "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry" and my favorite, "Strange Bedfellows", I think allowing the same sex to marry would open a whole new can of worms that has absolutely nothing to do with people who are gay.
I never said anything about gay people in my post. I believe that people who are gay want marriage for the same legit reasons that straight people do, but I think same sex marriage would give "straight" people the opportunity to screw the system.
As I said in the other thread, I fully support gay marriage. My best friend's sister is a lesbian and I want her to have all of the same rights with her girlfriend that I have with my husband. However, after watching "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry" and my favorite, "Strange Bedfellows", I think allowing the same sex to marry would open a whole new can of worms that has absolutely nothing to do with people who are gay.
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Eohippus
Well-Known Member
Straight people can screw the system now though...? I too have known those who've done it. I've known gay couples who've married other gay couples (i.e. lesbian couple marries a gay couple) to receive benefits. After all, how do you prove now that two people who are getting married are really straight or really in love? It happens all the time where friends marry friends for benefits.
KanoasDestiny
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying that it's right or that it doesn't currently happen. What I am saying is that if everyone decided to just marry their best friend to gain benefits, tax breaks, or whatever, the Government would not be ok with that. For example...a couple of years ago, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the cost to the federal government of extending employment benefits to same-sex domestic partners of certain federal employees (making no mention of additional costs such as Social Security and inheritance taxes) would be $596 million in mandatory spending and $302 million in discretionary spending between 2010 and 2019. These are the benefits including health insurance, survivor annuities, compensation for work-related injuries, life insurance, and vision/dental benefits. I'm just thinking that if straight people can marry their best friend or room mate, and not have to go through the troubles that might arise from a man/woman marriage, alot more people would be willing to do it for the benefits they can get out of it. Not that I personally have a problem with it, or the people who currently do sham weddings. But the government would/does.
I didn't mean for this to sound like an attack or start a debate, I was simply asking how do you stop people from doing sham marriages if same sex marriages are legalized. I'm sorry if it came across as anything more than that.
I didn't mean for this to sound like an attack or start a debate, I was simply asking how do you stop people from doing sham marriages if same sex marriages are legalized. I'm sorry if it came across as anything more than that.
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susanne
dB
This pie chart says it all...
wcr
Well-Known Member
I don't think the sham marriages argument holds water and the costs quoted that would cost the government is a drop in the bucket compared with what government wastes on frivolous things now. Just think how much government is making in selling marriage licenses. Maybe we should all stop getting legally married, the government loses revenue and gets a strong shot across the bow that we are fed up with them telling us who we can marry. I am not married but am in a committed relationship (man/woman) and I can get health insurance on my partners insurance as a domestic partner. I feel I am getting all the benefits that I want but don't have the responsibility of his financial liabilities as I am the major wage earner.
I can fully appreciate gays wanting to marry and have the same things that straight couples have. The wanting what you are told you can't have. The feeling that your love, commitment and having a family are LESS than what straight couples can have. I am getting old as dirt and remember the 60's (has it really been 50 years?) and the things my generation fought to change, and see the things that have been changed. The fact that some states are allowing same sex marriage is a positive sign. Who ever thought even one state would allow it much less several states following suit. I think as we raise our children to be accepting of others and start to become color blind, the barriers will start to fall.
I can fully appreciate gays wanting to marry and have the same things that straight couples have. The wanting what you are told you can't have. The feeling that your love, commitment and having a family are LESS than what straight couples can have. I am getting old as dirt and remember the 60's (has it really been 50 years?) and the things my generation fought to change, and see the things that have been changed. The fact that some states are allowing same sex marriage is a positive sign. Who ever thought even one state would allow it much less several states following suit. I think as we raise our children to be accepting of others and start to become color blind, the barriers will start to fall.
vickie gee
Well-Known Member
This has me grinning from ear to ear.
#1 (I am a government employee who pays $199 every two weeks for health insurance and last year I cancelled a much needed surgery because we could not afford the coinsurance and deductibles needed. Medicaid recipients can get the health benefits they need and remain unemployed and sleep late, stay up all night, go to the mall and fight the crowd to spend their welfare money on Nike retro air Jordans, then go to the racetrack or casino and spend some more welfare money gambling and then stop off at the grocery store to spend their food stamps before I get up at 3:45 am, feed horses, get ready for work, show up before 6 a.m., work my butt off for the government to earn my pay while watching people play the federal employee system. Some people show up, make good money to do nothing but socialize, facebook, internet shop, and disrupt people actually working. Then they can stay 4 hours overtime at $30 to $40 an hour to continue being nonproductive. I, on the other hand am too tired from actually working to even consider overtime, need to get home to take care of horses and dogs, cook, and get about 5 hours sleep before it starts again.
#2(I used to have a male roommate/landlord. Totally a business deal which later turned platonic. He used to joke about us getting married. It was a real sitcom. My Sunday School friends worried about "appearances". His main girlfriend worried about me, the female roommate. His other girlfriends worried about the main girlfriend, and me. Now the main girlfriend is his wife. At almost 50 he became a husband and father. Her 23 year daughter passed away this year and so they are raising a grandson same age as their daughter (real dad is in prison, and step-dad who is black does a good job of playing weekend dad). My now husband, then fiance used to hang out at roommate's home before any of us got married and entertain "everybody" (family, friends, extended family, etc) with his antics. My roommate was self employed and had some health issues. He used to ask him if I could marry him for love. Answer:no. Could I marry him for money. Answer:no. Could I marry him to put him on my health benefits. Answer:no.
#3(I later had a female roommate. She was in my Sunday School class and talked me into moving in with her. She gave me a better rate than the male roommate, had a housekeeper come every two weeks, the kitchen was always available for me as she did not cook, and she stayed out of my business (unlike the male roommate/landlord-become bigbrother). The thought of anyone thinking our relationship was more than roommates cracks me up! We were as different as day and night when it came to interests and hobbies. We did both love watching cartoons and Disney movies though and she liked my dog and my boyfriend.
The thought of a legal partnership with either of these two former roommates just to milk the system cracks me up. I love them both for who they are but seriously, how can you enter into a marriage just for legal benefits? My husband came along while I was happy in my own skin-looking for nobody. I think when you are not looking at all is when you are most likely to recognize that special person is looking at you.
Sorry for getting off topic. Where I had intended to go was that people also get a divorce to beat the system. Yesterday my beautician told me she knows of five couples who have divorced but live together so that both of them can draw disability. She said with married couples only one can draw disability. My oh my.
Matt73
Well-Known Member
Haven't read through these posts, didn't read through the last thread (I had a feeling it would just tick me off...and I've learned that, for the most part, you can't change people's minds). So...with that said, I'll keep it simple. In my 38 years and 18 years of those being an openly gay man, I've learned that homophobes and people that, generally, have "issues" with homosexuality are fearful of something within themselves. I'm not saying that homophobia and not agreeing with same-sex marriage are the same thing, necessarily. But why the heck do people care who anyone sleeps with and, furthermore, why are they worried about the "institution" of marriage being destroyed by gay marriage when the institution is non-existent in the first place? I don't endorse marriage and don't believe in the institution at all, between anyone (it's just a contract for tax/legal purposes). But I will attend marriages between my friends, gay and straight, because they feel it is important; and it is moving and I feel privileged to be there to witness their vows. Fear or Love? It's that simple...
susanne
dB
In this life, when someone finds love, it's something to be celebrated, not questioned or criticized. As I said in the previous thread, it's become common place to ask "what would Jesus do?" I have no doubt that Jesus would welcome gays and lesbians with open arms.
Matt73
Well-Known Member
XOXOXOX
A little, but that's why we love you Matt!XOXOXOXWise woman, you are, Susanne (did I sound like Yoda there lol?).
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Susanne, I agree!!! People who find love are lucky! And love is real to those who feel it -- not a choice, just a blessing.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
The above is a quote from today, I believe, and I couldn't agree more.GLENN BECK said:
Source: http://www.theblaze....t-gay-marriage/
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Eagle
Well-Known Member
I will try and put this clearly without upsetting anyone. Please remember that I live in Italy THE catholic country.
"what would Jesus do?" This is exactly what I ask myself daily living in this country watching the Pope getting fatter and richer telling "his" priests to preach to us about being generous whilst children all over the world die of hunger.
"what would Jesus do?" To the priest that touched my breasts and closed me in his room to try and have his way whilst I was alone.
I could go on but I don't think it is appropriate!
Do I agree with gay marriage? Absolutely! What has it to do with me?
Do I agree with church weddings? Absolutely NOT. Will I or my children ever go to a catholic church again? Hopefully not.
As to gay couples adopting I think it should be considered, there are many children in terrible situations but they have a mummy and a daddy so that makes it o.k? I personally think that some of these children would grow up way more balanced with 2 mummies or 2 daddies than a drunk mum and a violent father (just an example)
I do Hope I haven't offended anyone as that was not my intention, if so I deeply apologise.
Renee
Riverrose28
Well-Known Member
Renee, I've been in your shoes and can sympathize, but a priest is a man, Jesus was not. I no longer go to mass either, I have my own reasons as you have yours, thank you for your insites and confession.
susanne
dB
I believe that Jesus was a man, rather than some supernatural being. Does that lessen my respect for him? Not at all -- in fact, to me it is even more amazing that a human being had his wisdom and compassion and the influence on humankind two millenia later.
Jill, I agree with you as to civil marriage. While Keith and I were married by a minister, he was chosen for his work with the homeless and poor in Portland, and our ceremony was not in a church, but in the woods where I grew up. Churches are within their rights to choose whom they marry, but if the church is willing, why shouldn't those who want a religious ceremony have it?
I used to think civil unions were at least a decent compromise until the homophobes went from objecting to gay marriage to attacking civil unions. The bigots simply want to control everybody else and suck the joy from the world.
Jill, I agree with you as to civil marriage. While Keith and I were married by a minister, he was chosen for his work with the homeless and poor in Portland, and our ceremony was not in a church, but in the woods where I grew up. Churches are within their rights to choose whom they marry, but if the church is willing, why shouldn't those who want a religious ceremony have it?
I used to think civil unions were at least a decent compromise until the homophobes went from objecting to gay marriage to attacking civil unions. The bigots simply want to control everybody else and suck the joy from the world.
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Well said!
