Fat or pregnant

[stormy]

So first of all stallions are never too old to do it....which means your little girl is almost certainly pregnant. If you recorded the day you saw the stallion mount her go out 1 year then count back 30 days to find her due date in 2015....start watching her when she would be about 300 days pregnant. The little guy looks like he might be a dwarf and if you have not had his teeth checked I am betting he is so thin because of dental issues...bless you for taking them all but I think the previous owner was very disrespectful of you and of the horses needs not explaining to you about the chances of the mare being bred and the obvious issues the little guy has

 

[Kim P]

This is their pen. We are going to make a door in the back so they can go in for winter. I have them a fan under the lean to. So y'all think I should split it an seperate them from each other? They all get along.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Yes you do need to separate them in my honest opinion. Especially since you have horses with hugely different dietary needs. (one thin, one fat)...

Bless you for loving them.

I agree you have a steep learning curve but you do sound determined and you sound like you do want to make a difference, that said... you might have some difficult experiences while you are learning.

Can you find a mentor somewhere?

I had many years horse experience when I got into miniature horses. Bless the miniature horse breeder who became my mentor and friend. Minis are a bit different than big horses and I was very glad to have help and advice from somebody who had been there and done that.

The old stallion might have bad teeth, if former owner let him get in that deplorable condition, you can bet he has not had semi annual dentals. He also might have difficulty chewing hay especially if it is alfalfa .

You can not use moxydectin wormer on minis. You have to measure differently than big horses to get an aprox. weight on minis.

Hard to be positive by the photo angle, but your old thin stallion could even be a dwarf. How tall is he measured from hoof to shoulder in inches?

He is too thin to ride or give pony rides and his hooves need attention when you are able to get a farrier out.

Photos help so thanks for posting. Is the pinto a stallion too? Is he the one that bred the mare?

never mind.. I see you posted that you saw him breed her. If you do not want her pregnant and it is just after breeding (short bred) the vet can give her a shot to be sure no foal develops and you can separate them to prevent future breedings.

A flake is a section of the hay bale. Small bales have aprox. 10 (flakes) in them to make up a whole bale. Bad hay can kill your horse in a blink of an eye, so you should check all hay to be sure it is clean and not moldy.

Is your alfalfa hay, or pellets? Are you using big bales or small bales.

You REALLY need to find a mentor or you will be so sad if tragedy strikes. You love your horses, finding someone nearby experienced you can visit and chat horses and get guidance becides here on the forum would be really helpful. Horses seem so strong, but in reality, there is really so much that can go wrong if you don't know what you are doing and what to look for.

 

[Kim P]

Okay so I guess I will go and get a blood test. I am not letting him stick his arm in. I think that would hurt her. If she is not pregnant then I just cut down on her feed and grazing. What feed? Some said don't give them feed only hay. I was giving them regular hay but the last shipment was bad and they have not gotten anymore that is why I am feeding alfalfa. I thought they were supposed to graze all the time? Someone said a flake. What is a flake?

 

[shorthorsemom]

ps.. if he only just bred her, she would not look pregnant yet. Also, if he just bred her, it wouldn't show up with an internal exam either.

 

[shorthorsemom]

going back and re reading... I see that you wormed and had feet done. Might take some time to get the feet in better shape on the old stallion.

If you notice any of your horses looking like they are rocking back on their heels and walking with a shuffle gait, that is a 911 vet call for founder, just letting you know what to look for. would be better to catch early but kind of difficult to explain how to check for digital pulse to see if horse needs to be removed from grazing due to laminitis which often comes before founder.

Over grazing and over feeding can be a huge factor in founder. You can google founder and laminitis on internet.

best wishes.

not trying to scare you, just trying to give you as much information as I can think of that you need to know right away..

 

[Kim P]

Well my sons girlfriend has thorough breds and race and barrel horses. All are big. They help me but are not too consumed the ponies bc they are just ponies. Everyone thinks I spoil them but like you said each one is different and needs different stuff. My vet is great but probably gets annoyed with me at times. He tells me to leave them alone and not stress them out. I wanted to bathe them. He said just brush them real good. That was when we first got them and peanut was in such bad shape. He did file his teeth down some. He had some sharp ones and I have to watch and make sure that he does get his food and it does not fall out while chewing. He said he could graze all day bc his teeth were so bad. I just wanted to talk to owners of miniatures. We will be moving next year and building a new place. I kind of wanted to know what all I need to do to make my life easier. If she turns up preggo, then I have to put her and the baby alone? I appreciate everyone's advice. I am not very savvy on the internet so thanks for your patience and advice. I will let you all know what the vet says. I do not get offended by any one. I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Kim P]

I guess I will just take them all up there when I take Patty for test just so he can look at them all. They will be so proud to see Peanut looking so good. He needs to look at Wishbones hole anyway. It is always oozing and the antibiotic did not make it stop.i hope who ever did that to him gave him pain meds first!

 

[Kim P]

Okay guys we are going to vet Wednesday.

 

[shorthorsemom]

great. If it is warm sunny weather, I would think it would feel good for them to get a bath. I bucket bathe and rinse good with warm water. cold hose washing might be more stressful, but a nice soapy warm water bath couldn't be all so bad.

Glad you have some horse folks to help you.

Tell them "they are not JUST ponies" haha. You should see miniature horses and ponies compete in CDE and other sports. Minis and ponies excel in driving events and can be much more fun than biggies. You can brag that your horses eat less too. I used to exercise standardbreds on the track when I was a kid.

pregnant or not, your little girl should not be stabled with stallions in my opinion. If she does turn out to be bred, you will need plenty of advice on how to prepare.

I do not breed horses, so I can't help you there.

.

 

[baltoist]

fat

 

[shorthorsemom]

On the question..."does she look pregnant?" she looks fat for now and from what you described she is probably "short bred" on pregnancy and would not be showing yet. There is always the possibility that the stallion would be mounting her even if she was pregnant. so you really can't rule out any possibility. Really need a total vet exam and maybe an ultrasound would be in order.. You should write down the date that you saw the stallion show interest and mount her. If she was standing and allowing the stallion to breed her she was probably in heat at that time. If she did not come back into heat, she is probably bred from that service.

If you house your stallions with your mare on a permanent basis you can expect your mare to get pregnant yearly. Most folks agree field breeding and yearly foals is not in the best interest of the mare's health. There is not much of a market for the foals and they need extensive handling or they get wild in a very short time. If she foals a colt (male foal) then you would either have to geld him or risk him breeding his mother sometime in the future. I am reaching into the future crystal ball here and trying to give you some future considerations. Horses are not like cows, once horses start to foal, you need that foal to progress quickly. My cows can take hours to calve and the babies are fine... horses once they enter the canal and begin to come out, they can get oxygen deprived during the foaling process and you can end up with a "dummy foal". Horses need constant watching through the night when foaling is close. Folks set up cameras and alarms. If the mare begins to foal, you don't have much time to get the foal on the ground and out of the mare. Stuck foals die quickly, some are too big for the mother and the trauma and pain of losing mare and foal has visited this forum many times with folks sharing their pain and stories. Mares can spin and thrash and throw themselves around if things go wrong. If your mare ends up pregnant you should be reading and getting as much education as you can before she does foal.

Not trying to be the voice of doom and gloom. Just stating that breeding minis or small ponies is really not for newbies completely unfamiliar with horses all together. I think they are lucky to have found you, but I would encourage you to get some basic books right away and get reading. Maybe some folks here can give you some ideas of what books you can start with. I keep posting... hoping if we get the views up on your thread it will attract some attention of the more experienced breeders here on this forum. There are a few fat or pregnant topics lately and some folks might think they have already read your thread and don't realize that there is a brand new horse mommy in here in great need of assistance.

Hang in there.. keep posting. enjoyed the photos you attached.

 

[Kim P]

Thanks so much! I am anxious for our vet visit tomorrow. I do hope that she is just fat. If she is pregnant I will probably send her to my sons girlfriends place. They are set up for that bc they also breed but they are only interested in big ones. Seeing as she helped get these ponies for my grand baby she will have to help. I know she will bc Patty is her favorite anyway. I am just worried about fixing the old boys. Will it be too traumatic on them being over twenty. The one that bred her has had some sort of training bc he is just awesome especially after we put a lead on him. The other tiny one is my grand babies fav. He has already endured so much trauma. Will that change their attitude? Would it be easier to fix Patty? A baby would be so cute but it would work my but off and I would not get rid of Patty's baby. So how long do minis live? The kids originally were just getting Patty so we could let my gran baby do barrels with my sons girlfriend. We were just going to saddle her up and lead her until she learned how to ride. Although the little stallion that bred seems best to teach her on bc he is so well behaved. We have not done any of this though. We just bareback ride Patty and Wishbone around the yard and play with them and keep them brushed and pretty. They are so smart. They have learned their routine around here pretty fast. We are not in this for money or show. We just want to give the grands a fun time and have lots of memories. Not everyone gets a real pony! We are lucky to have the room. I just want to know the proper way to take care of minis.

 

[shorthorsemom]

If you are lucky, minis can live a long time. Like little dogs they can live longer than big horses. I have a friend who had a mini well into mid 30's on age. If you have rough luck or founder or complications from breeding, the lifespan can be much shorter.

I don't know of anyone who has neutered their mare. There will be much more risk gelding aged stallions than younger ones, but I am sure it can be done depending on your vet. Mini stallions are tough. My vet says minis heal faster and swell less than big horses. Regardless of the risk of gelding, I think you have greater risk by leaving those boys intact.

Your old guy has been through so much already, your vet would probably be hesitant to geld him, but I still think it is the way to go. They can also be fertile for a few weeks after gelding, so again... I would totally separate Patty from your boys right away so they can get used to the idea well before winter.

Also, depending on where you live, I hope you have good shelter for warmth if Patty is going to be housed by herself. She would probably need a companion for winter. It gets so complicated... which is why I would love to give a swift kick to the guy who sent you two stallions and a mare and put you in this situation where you are already attached and finding out that is isn't going to be easy figuring out what your best options for care will be. If you sent Patty to the other stable and just kept the two stallions at your place that would work, but you will have to be sure she is getting proper daily care and isn't just being turned out on pasture to get fat and founder. Also... there are folks here strongly against putting minis into a pasture with big horses... I better stop here before I scare you to smithereens. .

So.. if it was me. I would separate and geld the boys.. let them recover and then enjoy your three little horses living all together.

one more scare.....Children are head heavy and fall like darts to the ground. I hope you have proper head protection in the form of a helmet for your grand baby.

 

[Brody]

Hey Kim, I have read through your thread and will offer my opinion on a few of your last questions. First, no - the stallions are not too old to be gelded. The main consideration is their health. The little paint stallion seems to be in very good health, and I think gelding him would definitely be the right thing to do. You say he is already very docile and friendly - if you gelded him then he would only become even more docile and friendly! For me, there would be absolutely no drawback to having him fixed and I would do that right away. Your other 'little' stallion has had a few more issues - as you said. I, personally, would also geld him - but I would discuss it with your vet tomorrow. If your vet feels he is healthy enough right now - then I would get that taken care of right away as well. There really is very little risk to gelding a stallion when done by a good vet with a horse in good enough health. So my suggestion would be to definitely plan on gelding both of them, but to figure out the 'when is best' together with your vet when he comes tomorrow. With what your plans are for your little minis, I don't think there is really any other options that I would consider. Regarding fixing your mare - it's not real common, and it is higher risk to spay a mare than it is to geld a stallion (though sometimes it does occur - usually in mares with really bad heat cycles). With the stallions it is a pretty noninvasive, simple procedure. Gelding your stallions will really take the hassle out of caring for your minis - as you will then be able to continue to keep them all together and not have to worry about them injuring each other or breeding your mare. They can simply be your pets at that point. I think you have also been given some good advice regarding care for your mare. As you are, I would start by first confirming whether or not she is pregnant - and then proceed from there. If she is in foal you will have a lot to learn and prepare for, and if she's not you can get the stallions gelded and keep them all happily together. Also, if she is pregnant - I would still geld the stallions right away... Some stallions are good with foals, but others are not and could be aggressive toward a little foal if you end up having one - not worth the risk in my opinion.

With regard to the age question - it obviously varies - but I think around 25 is a pretty average age. Obviously some don't make it that long, while others live into their 30s. Hope my thoughts are helpful, and as shorthorsemom said - keeping asking the questions - this forum is the best place I have ever come across for answering questions and learning to best care for minis!

 

[Kim P]

I keep re reading everyone's advice. I am going to take notes for the vet tomorrow. I want to keep all three together bc they are happy with each other. So how long does it take for the boys to heal after surgery? Like a dogs?

 

[chandab]

With horses the gelding procedure leaves an open incision for fluids to drain, and there will be some. I just had two gelded two months ago, and I've already forgotten, but it was at least a week of daily walks to keep down any swelling, and one needed daily, gentle cold water hosing (beside the incision area) to help reduce the swelling. I think it was a little longer for full healing, but the first week they need the walks to help control the swelling. Mine were just 2 year olds, and the oldest I've had gelded was 8 years old.

 

[bevann]

I've had 16 and 17 year old stallions gelded.They are much happier now with the mares and no unwanted babies.Hope you mare isn't in foal.Keep your boys away from her for at least 6 weeks-longer is better.Keep us posted and enjoy your Minis

 

[Kim P]

We went to the vet. Will know in ten days if she is pregnant or not.

 

[Kim P]

Well we got the results. Patty is pregnant!