foals birthing area and birth results

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TPs flat rock acres

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ok not sure if this topic ever came up but was just curious. has anyone ever did a study of foals being born in a stall vs paster with the herd. if the results of pasture births of complication was higher or lower then when the mare is in a stall being watched. I was told by someone that horses usually birth quick when with the herd so less problems just wondering if sometimes to much human hands on can pose problems.
 
The foals I have lost were all in a stable and never outside.
 
No horse far that foals enough to get statistics would dare foal outside. The investment into the mares is far too high to risk an issue. Bigger farms hire 24hr help to physically watch the horses at all times during foaling season.
 
Being "quick" to birth really won't help if the foal is malpositioned, so I just can't buy that logic.

It sounds like an excuse made up by people to justify not watching for the mare to foal so it can be assisted if needed.
 
No I would not say that (disney horse) I have been watching over the last few years. I have talked to many breeders some show people some that arent in showing and what I have found is that the majority of the people I have watched and listened to when foaling time is here it seems to me that more foals are lost when in a stall. Not that being in a pasture things still can't happen as I am sure they can and have heard of some cases. This is simply a study that I am doing on my own. I have had foals in the stall lost one to Red bag now I am just wondering had she been out in a pasture of the chance that it might have changed? I have talked to breeders who only have foals outside and the amound of foals lost has been very low if any. I am very curious as I want the BEST chance for my mares and foals to be fine. I do not think ANYONE whether it be a mare like my first that I got for $300.00 with no papers vs one that is more $$$ one would not care and take chances but it just seems that when I watch on the web and those who stall their mares for foaling time I have heard of so many problems that have happened just wondering if in a pasture if its less or just as much. My mares this time I put in the foaling area not confinded to a stall for foaling this time it was nice out and had the 3 girls that were expecting together like thier own herd thank god all had no problems and all babies are well. Letting them have them in their baby area I don't think it means I care any less and am concerned with the chances of foaling in stalls vs outside (weather being good conditions) I do want to do what is best.
 
Also I am not saying quick as per say a race but letting them do what comes naturally. I raise top show dogs and this question as come up with breeders if sometimes we involve ourselfs too much that it might impose more problems.
 
I agree with Nathan and Disney. My mares are too valuable to me to not be monitored closely as foaling approaches. Dystocias are horrible events and I know of mares that died a terrible death out in the field because they weren't being watched closely. I have too much money, time, labor and love invested in these horses that are working for me, to not be there when they foal.
 
I agree with Andrea / Disney. It's so important to be there and most of us, I think, do our best to be sure we are.

... Those who want to look at it as s business proposition, considering the market prices of the "average" horse, it may not make fiscal sense to them but for us, it makes all the sense in the world to be there for our mares and their foals.
 
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I would love to see a poll on this as I am sure everyone wants to do the BEST for their horses and since I am still very new 5 yrs I want to make sure I do whats best I do not want to take any chances of losing any of my mares or foals as they are my family far most no they aren't top winning mares but I can say the time and love I have invested I wouldn't want to take chances either . Where I am located and I have talked to other horse people I told them I have cameras up had my girls last year on marestare and was watching them, most thought I was nuts even some of the miniature horse breeders I have contact. Granted they weren't the BIG name farms they too thought I was nuts so thought I would do more research on this that is what I want to know.Wondering really whats right or wrong that is why it got me looking at whats happening around the forums etc I see so many problems when in the stalls but it could be that on the forums they only have people who are showing? Maybe not sure thats why I am wondering. Is there away to run a poll on this forum?
 
So you are sayin for those who allow foaling to take place in a pasture are making more money? not sure I know what you mean? as I know where I am located the sale of horses isn't that great.I paid $2500.00 for my appy stallion and I would be lucky if I could get $600.00 for him up this way When I do a breeding its for my self first that is like the 3 babies I have will probably keep them all.
 
Technically a dry, grassy pasture is better for the mare to foal in as it usually is a bit cleaner than a stall would be.

When my grandparents used to let their mares foal in the pasture, they would always lose a few to the foal not getting out of the bag. They never had any dystocias in the 10 years or so before bringing them into stalls. Now, we never lose any foals to them not getting out of the bag as the mares are monitored so closely and we have cameras set up. Bedding is changed twice a day to keep it as clean as possible so we do not have problems with septicemia (we test IgG levels too). We do, however, seem to have at least 1 dystocia a year now. I can usually reposition the foals myself, but some years are rough, like this past spring when a maiden mare had a foal die in utero and it came out with head turned back, front legs back, and back legs forward. We were there though to catch it right away whereas in the pasture that would not have been the case.

My family has never lost a mare in over 30 years of foaling using both methods, but our mares are smaller and more refined now than back in the pasture days so for me, the mares go in a stall at night to foal so i can be there if something happens. During the day they get to run around the yard, but i am out there all day so can watch. Had 4 of our 12 foal outside during the day this year.
 
thanks ohmt I am trying to learn all I can and like I said want to do what is best. Do you think the foals that are born dystocias might be to the confined area? vs outside that a mare might move around more to change the way there are comging out? I had one lady that said in all the years she has been in mines they foaled in the pasture and never had one have a problem and last year when I was waiting for my foals I was so darn nervous having them in the stalls that I started to question if I was doing right by them. no one wants to lose a foal let alone a mare so that is why I am trying to learn more about all of this. Thank GOD the foals born this year are doing well. When I first got into minis I bought two mares that were bred of course the person had no idea when they were due one I had in a stall to watch her let her out and she had it out side very health hardy foal. The other had no signs she was due and had hers outside again fine. Last year my two maiden girls I had on camera helped deliver both of them they were fine the one mare that had foals before didn't have on camera she had her foal same morning as the other mare in a stall of her own and it was a red bag. I beat myself up as I didn't have enought cameras to watch her to try to save it so then I quesiton if it was because she was stalled and not in a natural envorinment who knows but it killed me that I lost that foal
 
I'm saying by allowing mares to foal unattended in a pasture, breeders would be spending less EFFORT and for a commercial situation, TIME is MONEY. I cannot think of a reason that is in the best interest of the mare and foal when it comes to MINIATURES to plan to allow the foaling to be unattended. Most of the time you don't need to get involved, but when you do, YOU DO, if you are concerned about the welfare of the mare and foal. This is just my opinion, but it's not based on unexperience, and opinions (not echos) were requested...
 
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I am guessing on this forum all stall to foal? are there any that have mares that foal outside that can give me an input as well.
 
I don't think this forum is "all" anything, but it's a great place to get good advice. I don't know of anyone on here who would give insincere advice when it comes to what they think is in the best interest of horses... Does that mean all of us do everything the same way? No. But you've got "on hand" a great resource here on LB with experienced horse people who take a keen interest in doing the best they can for their animals.
 
yes thank you Jill and hope I can learn even more then what I have already you guys have been such a wealth of information for me esp. being new and I can't thank all of you enough for that! Its hard learning on your own so we depend on the internet these days to help us learn and I tell you can't be thankfull enough for that. I know what you mean as I have so much time and money invested in my dogs and starting out in the minis am trying to learn as much as I can. I know probably it will be the same as it was for the dogs trail and error and will have to learn on myown from experience but with the times and internet hopefully can learn more to help out in touch situations. If I haven't said it before THANK each and everyone one of you who have given me advise it means more to me then you know.
 
This is simply a study that I am doing on my own. I have had foals in the stall lost one to Red bag now I am just wondering had she been out in a pasture of the chance that it might have changed?

No, the situation wouldn't have changed - because a red bag delivery is not like any other, as it means the placenta has detatched and is depriving the foal of life sustaining oxygen. Either way the foal would have died - the only way it could have survived was to have someone attending the birth to break open the red bag and pull the foal out immediately upon presence of the red bag.

Personally, I know a man who breeds miniatures and never pulls them in a stall to foal. He breeds roughly 30 mares per year and he is very non-challant about his results. I always call to see how he's done for the year and last year he had 4 mares die during birth along with their foal due to malposition of the foal and he lost 7 foals due to them not getting out of the bag in time. I know this year he's already lost 2 mares with their foals and 3 foals to not getting out of the bag in time. In his exact words "You win some, you lose some. If I find a mare or foal that doesn't make it I have David come over and bury her."

Now I in NO WAY see this as being profitable, beneficial or good in any way to his farm. MOST of those dystocias could have been viable foals and mares with just simple help and ALL of the foals that didn't make it out of the bag could have been viable.

Keep in mind - he breeds AMHA/AMHR (all are double registered) horses and gets roughly $800 per colt and $1000 per filly. He has nice stock but IMO his method of thinking and breeding practices are in no way beneficial for the horses or for him in that matter.

I'll never have a mare foal out of a stall if I can help it. Too much risk and to top it off, you miss that crucial period to imprint the foals.
 
I agree with Jill when she says mini's need assistance, not always but if they need help it is fundamental that someone is there for both the mare and foal. I don't think foaling outside necessarily means they aren't being watched, it depends on each persons set up. Sitting in a car as Ben did and watching his mare out in her pen night after night until she foaled proves that
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(well done Ben)

I personally agree with Ohmt and think that pregnant mares need to be watched whilst outside all day and then in under cam at night as it is easier as most of us have families to tend to. I think them moving around all day munching grass or hay and getting plenty of exercise is the best for them. I could never close them up night and day as I would feel bad
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I have made a small pen in front of my foaling stall so they can still move around whilst being watched by me in the supermarket on my iphone ROFL What we do for our horses, and the kids wonder why I forget have the things we have run out of
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We rarely have a mare in a stall for foaling; they foal outside. We've only had one dystocia and I was there to catch that one--the foal was dead but I was able to get it out and save the mare.

I do know people who foal out a large number of mares each year--the mares foal out on a small foaling pasture without cameras. Most times the mares do not need assistance, but when they do the owners are there to assist--it's rare for these breeders to lose a mare, in fact several of them have never lost a mare in spite of a severe dystocia here and there. Foaling outside without cameras doesn't automatically mean the owner isn't paying attention and watching the mares.

In my opinion--judging by all the breeders I've known over the years and their methods of foaling and their live foal percentages--outside mares have fewer problems when it comes to foaling. A good part of this is due to the mare being outside and moving around more and being more fit--and fit mares are better prepared for foaling.
 
I like to get hands on with my horses daily, so I bring them in, I also have a coyote problem in my area, so I don't let newborns or at term mares stay out over night due to predators. But I make sure my mares out not stalled 24/7 they need to be out and moving around if not for the foals, then just for the mares health. horses weren't meant to be stalled, they need to move around. If I could redo my property and set it up to my ideal situation, I would have a small paddock off the stall for mare and baby to be in. I also have a fescue issue here and need to make sure the mares are off of it, so different areas of the world need different things, there's not 1 be all end all solution, you have to figure out what works best for you. I can "clean" and use disinfectant in a stall I can't do that in a pasture.
 

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