Found Lost dog

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well, you have made me laugh (neuticles

) and then got me feeling teary eyed - my first obedience dog was a doberman too. He was poorly bred, had health issues and died of cancer at 5yrs but he changed forever the way I approach dog ownership. When you say "The number 1 reason dogs are given up on is basic training." I have always said it is as simple as consistency, it isn't what you teach so much as it is that you have clear guidelines and help the dog to know them and know he has made you happy. The rules are always the rules. Spend time with him and your dog will find a way to fit into your life, they really want to fit in their pack rather desperately. By showing them how you are doing right by them, neutering just helps that along IMO. Anyway I didn't mean to steal the thread

I was just making my comment clear. I think, shorthorsemom, you and I have very similar ideas where dogs are concerned.

Chanda, thats funny, I never thought about it but I also know a fair number of farmers/ranchers who do their own castrating, calves, colts, pigs and not one of them has a neutered dog lol (not that I am suggesting they neuter their own dogs mind you - I have a horror story about someone who tried -shudder)

 

[chandab]

I know none of the guys I know would even think about trying to neuter their own dog, but most can't get past they "they'll miss it" attitude, and won't take them to the vet either. My MIL had an argument with my FIL about neutering her little house dog, its her pet, so her rules, but he had a hard time with it.

 

[Helicopter]

A Maltese followed me and my Cocker home early one morning. After breakfast I put her in the car and took her back to where I'd seen Maltese before. No not theirs. Took her to the local vet "All Maltese look the same'' he said and told me she was about 5 months old. Rang the radio station and left details. Phoned the Dog Pound. ''You have to bring her in. That's stealing". Well not in this life time or the next would I take a dog, any dog, to the dog pound. After 2 weeks I would have lied through my teeth to keep her but thankfully it didn't come to that.

She died last year aged 15. Lizzie was her name. Dizzy Liz, Lizzy Diz, Tinkerbelle, Tiny Tink.

 

[JaniceZ]

Just wanted to update you all. Hubby and I were away for a funeral all weekend, and A friend stayed home to watch the dogs. She has been living with us for a few months, and I trust her completely. She texted me yesterday afternoon, she had gone grocery shopping, and when she opened to door the dog we found (We finally settled on Harley for a name) took off like a rocket out the door, knocking her over. She got up and tried to call/catch him, but couldn't find him anywhere. She looked for over 4 hours, but he wasn't coming back.

Hubby and I came home at midnight last night, and were shocked to find the doorknob at the front door had been chewed so much it was almost flattened, and the door frame at the back door totally ripped to shreds. My friend had only been gone for about an hour and had let the dogs out before that, so I don't think he was just desperate to go to the bathroom. What would make him act like this?

We are keeping an eye out for him, looking on Kijiji, and have called the humane society, though I doubt they would just give him back to us as we don't really have proof of ownership.

 

[Mona]

Sounds like a major case separation anxiety. This dog will definitely need training in that area...crate training. (if/when he comes back)

 

[shorthorsemom]

awwwwww, so sorry for him. That is so sad.

This dog got very stressed from another change in his life, sounds like he was very overwhelmed by you leaving and a stranger being his caregiver but his roots in that type of stress go very deep I would think and this is not something new for him to experience. That is separation anxiety. My friend had a dog that destroyed a crate and crushed her door knobs in her house when it got out and tore up her door frames. He was a very tough case.

There is hope for separation anxiety dogs and training methods available.

I keep thinking of how scared he must be now. I hope he finds his way.

Bless you for trying. take care.

 

[JaniceZ]

He came back!! Showed up on our doorstep this afternoon! I am so glad he is safe!

Thanks for the advice Mona and Shorthorsemom. We usually crate them when we go places, but I did forget to tell the dog sitter. Harley is a challenge for sure. Does anyone have any good resources I can look at for dealing with separation anxiety?

Also, I have changed my mind, I think he is a shar pei cross rather than chow chow cross.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

 

[shorthorsemom]

Hi, WOW. He is back.. that is wonderful.

For separation first you need to find out if Harley is stressing in the crate when you leave, or if he is comfortable in his crate "zone" and happy with the routine of being crated and then you leave. You can stuff a bone for him and place it in the crate to occupy his mind, you can also serve him all his meals in the crate, to further convince him that his crate is a cool place to be.

If you can set up a camera that would help you determine if he is upset by you leaving, or upset with the change of his routine. Many dogs consider their crates a safe zone and are not stressed when the owner leaves, but can exhibit very stressed behavior if allowed loose in the whole house when you leave.

Why does this happen? Picture the dog whose owners allowed the dog freedom of the house. Dog chews up something or raids trash and gets diciplined hard when the owner returns. Dog associates loose in house, with huge reprimand when owner gets home. Dog is crated, dog is always a good boy when owner returns. Owners that banish dog to being tied in yard for destructive behavior can create a dog that craves to get outside when owner is gone.

THis is merely one senario, not a description of what I think Harley is doing.. need more information to try to determine what Harley's "trigger" is for the anxiety.

So first, I would go back to crate routine when you leave. Find some way to tape Harley and his crate behavior when you are gone. If he is biting the crate and restless and circling and wont settle, you leaving is probably the trigger.. If he is quiet and comfortable in his crate, then perhaps it was leaving him loose in the house that roused some demons from his past life.

Let me know what you find out...

to recap.. need more information..First information needed... Is he happy crated when you leave, or is he stressed in the crate when you leave?

Also, If you can start feeding him in the crate with the door open and door closed that would be good too.

So glad he came back, you are giving him new good memories.

take care let me know if you don't understand my post... typing a bit fast here.

 

[JaniceZ]

So we left the dogs alone for 30 min today, So I filmed Harley in his Crate. He cries the entire time, raging from what I will describe as sorrowful to desperate over the 30min. I did not put anything in with him as I cant seem to find any Kongs, Pippin probably snuck them into the yard and burred them. Next time I will have something for him.

Also, this time I had pippin locked upstairs, out of Harleys sight. We were using pippins puppy crate before we left for the funeral, however I don't feel comfortable leaving either of them in it for too long as I think it is a bit of a squeeze for either of them to fit in it. I think it is a max 40 or 45lbs (I measured, its 20 inches wide, and 34 inches long, on the inside) and Pippin is 55lbs, while Harley is 60lbs right now, and a bit underweight. As long as I consistently put Pippin upstairs and Harley in the crate, is that alright?

Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it.

Here is the video:

 

[Mona]

Janice, this crate is plenty big enough for this dog.

I only watched the very beginning...my internet is too slow and it takes forever, but I would buy a big bone, the smoked type with marrow center, and let him chew on that. Once he eats all the marrow, you can use the same bone to occupy him by using cheese whiz or peanut butter smeared by knife into the hollow of it. I would also have him sleep in of at bed time, in your bed room so he can see you even, just to get him used to being crated.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Ditto what Mona said. I would also crate him with that bone when you are home and not leaving. Crate him while you are in the room with him, go about your business, then let him out again so he doesn't always think the crate means you are leaving. If he is calm in the crate while you are home, let him have some quality crate time while you have no intentions of leaving. If he rages in the crate while you are home and this causes stress let me know.

I would also have a chat with your vet about possible medical treatment if you can not get him to the point of being comfortable that you are leaving and coming back again.. If he is raging in the crate and very upset, medical treatment might get him to the point of being able to reach his mind. Dogs with severe separation issues just shut down and it is very difficult to get to the mind part to train and rehabilate. Also, the medications can be temporary use item (can also try herbal medications also). My vet uses both herbal and medical treatments, so I typically ask my vet which herbals to try first.

I have tried quite a few herbals and they helped with some of my dogs, but for a severe case min pin I had with high anxiety due to dementia (not separation) we went with a medication called Amitriptalline and my collie at one point needed treatment with a different medication (I would have to go look it up)... that calmed her brain waves when she was having "episodes" where we are thinking she might have a brain tumor and her erratic episodes were not calmed any other way. She is off meds now and doing great and we are not sure what was the trigger or why it went away but the medication was a life saver for her when we were considering putting her to sleep because her episodes were so severe. These medications are reasonable on price, calm the brain waves and don't make the dog overly sleepy. I actually couldn't tell they were on anything, just could tell by the results and calming behavior.

But... first, we always try training, but I don't let dogs go long with hysterical behavior before I start looking for calming aids.

I typically start with holostic treatments first but depends on severity. , I have also used acupuncture.. I use calming drops, DAP collars, and have had terrific results using a DAP diffuser plugged into the wall to use pherome therapy. It really worked for a dog I adopted that would run around and eliminate in fear and stress.

let me look some stuff up.. try the bone first and tape reaction and try crating while you are home... be back later, have appointment and need to look up names of a few things for you to try.

 

[shorthorsemom]

ps.. read your post on my kindle and didn't realize you attached the video. I will watch it later when I get back. sorry.

I also would consider one of those metal crates that are open on all sides. Heavy duty bars and a clip on the door.

Some dogs don't like how they can't see out of those plastic airline crates and wouldn't take much for a dog his size to pop the door and then you will have loose stressed dog crushing door knobs again.

I prefer the fold and carry type crates that I can fold down and move around. You can use that crate in your bedroom when home and have another crate for downstairs so you don't have to move crates around.

 

[JaniceZ]

The crate in the video is quite large, I agree lol. I was talking of our second crate that we had for my dog, Pippin, when he was a puppy.

I do believe it is us leaving that makes Harley anxious. When I am home I leave Harley in there occasionally when Pippin and Harley's wrestling is to much commotion and I cant put them outside. He seems quite comfortable in there on those occasions. As I sit here typing, Harley is laying in the crate with the door open.

Unfortunately, buying another crate is not in the budget. We cannot afford another dog at all if I am completely honest. We are trying to line up a home for him, I have put a few feelers out looking if someone would be interested, however I am being picky in who I would trust to provide a dog like Harley a good home, and those who I know would spend enough time and training with him don't want a dog with any issues. So for the mean time I am trying to help him as much as possible.

I just took this picture of the boys, I guess Pippin (Dog on the right) wanted to be in the crate too!

 

[shorthorsemom]

In that photo he does look like a shar pei cross. I understand not having budget for "one more dog". I recently had a JRT show up and I just couldn't manage to keep him and my neighbor has taken him in. he needed major training and I just didn't have the time or the finances and for me just one more dog would have mean taking in an 8th dog. I have 7 now. We seem to be a way station for wayward critters on our farm. Just spotted a momma cat and kittens a few nights ago, new drop offs.

I have all our farm cats neutered and this is somebody outcast. more to capture and neuter, sheesh. money is tight.

You can list him on rescue groups websites and have yourself as a foster home too.

I would try giving him some rescue remedy to start and a stuffed marrow bone or something really yummy when you leave.

You can google victoria stillwell separation anxiety on you tube and watch some videos that might give you some ideas.

best wishes and thanks for being so kind as to help him find his way. sorry I am typing so fast. Halloween and kids and too much work today, running in and out.

take care. cute photo

 

[paintponylvr]

I'm not much help on the separation anxiety, but wanted to weigh in and say thank you for what you are doing to help. Every little bit is GREAT!!

Two of our current dogs are rescues - one of whom followed our daughter home...well sort of. Though we tried to find her owners - no such luck and she fit in so well that eventually we've had her spayed and she is now a member of our household. She's a cutie!! and has received some basic training in manners and advanced training our daughter's way in other things... Our daughter moved into her own place and took her dog with her - only to find that she had severe separation anxiety w/o the other people in the family, no outside area and no other dogs. The whining, crying and howling almost got Sierra booted out of her apartment. She brought her home in tears (we are only about 45 minutes drive away, but at the time sierra was working full time and going to ITT part time and the apartment was literally 5 minutes from where she worked and 15 from ITT). In some ways it was great for us - I love the little sneaky pooch. BUT she's a hole digger and right now we can't put her out in the back yard with the boys because we can't find her latest escape. So she's in the house and then out on the tie line out front - bleck - she's a "tree wrapper"... O well. We still end up with the 2 much bigger boys settled between hubby and I and then 1 or the other of us has Chicka on our laps until her person arrives home (O, forgot to mention that after a year of living on her own, she simply became overwhelmed with the cost and living on her own and moved back in w/ us) - at which time she vacates (& leaves nail holes in our bodies as we become living spring boards) our laps and leaps into Sierra's arms - all 35 lbs of her pretty, long red haired self w/ the soulful eyes!

The 2nd dog is one that our oldest daughter, before she moved out, got from a neighbor who refuses to spay/neuter any dogs and always has from between 10 to 30 dogs about 1/2 mile from us back in the trees... Gobbles came to us as a puppy, named Goblin as he was born Halloween week and was black and white... Part pit, part something and part dalmatian (so they say), he's developed a lot of the size and breadth of a pitt. When oldest moved out - she's never been in a situation to take him with - so he's always been with Larry and I. Will have to dig out records as I have no idea how old he is now (yet I can remember at least the birth years of each of our 37 head of horses and ponies, go figure) - think 4 or 5 right now. He, too, has been neutered. Nothing really problematic with him. Just a big smoochy love bug! He drools some (especially if you are eating dinner in front of the tv), he snores and OMG - the farts can drive you out of the room... But he's our Gobbles.

On the other question, which I know that the OP has both had answered and pretty much answered for herself, we found another dog a few years back. At the time, we stuck up flyers w/ pictures we took and some of the info on the dog (he'd arrived with a collar, had been cared for, was pretty "cool" but was all male - pitt we thought but not entirely sure). Put an ad on Craig's list. Our daughter also took him to two separate vet clinics in two different towns and counties (we live between them), contacted the Animal Shelters in both counties. He wasn't micro-chipped and no-one had seen him and no one knew who he was. I was pretty upset when our daughter, who seemingly knew better, let this unknown dog into her bedroom and onto her bed! All I could think of was what if he's sick, has rabies, is mean, attacks if she talks in her sleep etc, etc... He, too, was a great big love bug and I gradually relaxed somewhat. Honestly, he was beautiful! But he was HUGE and his mouth would easily wrap around my thigh (I'm not small). Right from the start, he was Skye's dog and if someone came too close to her (even her boyfriend at the time - which warmed me right up to him,

), he'd growl and "ruff up". That wasn't completely acceptable (UHHH = MY HOUSE), but we worked it out. I think it lasted three weeks, when suddenly Skye called me in tears. Someone had seen one of the flyers and knew someone who knew someone... Owner called Skye. I wasn't there when the owner arrived - but even Skye had to admit that it was his owner. The dog responded right away to "his name" (different than what we'd been calling him - which he'd started to respond to), tried to get to his owner while on leash, wrestled with his owner (a young man that ended up in tears according to Skye's boyfriend whom thought that was totally un-manly! still ROFLMBO when I think of this...). The owner confirmed it quit nicely when he had us call his vet clinic more than 50 miles away and they were able to tell us about a couple of scars (I knew one of the vets from the clinic, so was pretty sure it wasn't a hoax) on the dog - but were surprised that we hadn't found the micro-chip (he'd been chipped) or his rabies tab (well the hanger had been on his collar originally)... So the dog went home w/ his owner. He lived more than 18 miles away and had the dog in a fenced back yard and sometimes chained when he wasn't home (at work or?). Said there was a running feud between himself and some of the neighbors and felt that someone had let the dog loose and maybe even transported him part way to somewhere else (?), but wasn't sure. He had flyers similar to ours - but in his area. Quite the surprise to find that out!! Of course, we knew he was an unaltered male - but turned out he was a show dog and had done well as a younger puppy but hadn't been shown recently. He was 2 years old at the time we found him. He did know lots more than we thought - but with different terms and his name turned out to be "Jack". It was after that that we ended up with "Gobbles"...

We kept in touch for a while, but haven't heard from him lately.

Anyhoo, just wanted to share our experiences! Again, I bow to you - rescuing a dog that you can't really keep... Explained in depth in another post...

 

[JaniceZ]

Update: Since the last time I wrote I have putting a Kong with peanut-butter in with Harley, and leaving Pippin upstairs in our bedroom. There is no change in his behavior in the crate with the kong. I have also been feeding him all his meals in the crate. At first he would not eat when we put him in there, but I think he has figured out that him going in the crate does not necessarily mean we are leaving, either that or he has learnt the faster he eats the quicker he gets out of the crate lol. During meals we leave pippin loose in the same room the crate is in. Well today we had to run to walmart, and were in a bit of a rush, so we put Harley in his crate with a bone (first time trying leaving him with a bone), and left pippin loose in the room. Same as feeding time. I didnt have time to set up the laptop to film him, but when we got back the bone had been chewed on! I have to go out again later today so I am going to leave him in the crate and film him. Ill let you know how it goes!

 

[shorthorsemom]

I was wondering if the other dog loose in the room would help. I wasn't sure why Pippin was left elsewhere.

In my home I have both crate dogs and loose dogs but they are all together in the same room when I leave and they are very happy that way. Sometimes my loose dog lays right next to the crate door of one of the other dogs. I have a couple of dogs that are much happier in a crate and get stressed when left loose. I have a couple that stress more when crated. You are being very observant and doing a great job trying to figure out what makes him tick. that is half the battle right there.. good job! keep us posted.

 

[JaniceZ]

So I think we are back to square 1 with Harley. I left today for about 2 hours. Pippin was loose in the same room and Harley had his bone, same as last time. I recorded him, and he is back to howling. I actually could hear him when I was on my way up the driveway. Would this be an appropriate time to try rescue remedy?

 

[shorthorsemom]

Yep, would try rescue remedy, perhaps a DAP collar. If you don't get results quickly I would chat with your vet about medical treatments. I have never regretted the medical treatments my vet has offered a couple of my more severe case dogs in my home, not for separation, but one for senility and barking behavior and the other for "some sort of unknown CNS episodes" my dog was having. One dog was on medication for life, the other was only on the medication for a few months and was weaned off successfully when the behavior went away. Some vets recommend prozac but I have no experience with this medication and dogs I have owned. ... One of my dogs was on amitriptalline, and another dog of mine was on Gabapentin for two completely different reasons and I was very pleased with the results.

I also tried a chewable holostic calming aid on a chinese crested I have currently that is old and senile and gets into bouts of incessant barking. I was not impressed with the price or the results on that one and have forgotten what it was called. I am thinking about asking for something soon for her.

It is important to remember.... It is not a bail out on the dog to consider medication that is not holostic.

Calming the brain waves so you can reach the active mind is not a bad thing to do.

PS, what kind of dog food do you feed? Just curious. I always look at the food a dog is on too.

I have a manners minder (expensive gadget doggie thing) that can be set up to deliver treats randomly into your crate while you are gone. My friend reported it helped her dog tremendously for separation issues and barking when she was gone. It was cool, but I don't think it was cool enough to recommend somebody go out and buy one, however it really had its training benefits in other areas for me teaching a dog to "go out" on command to a specific location and sit and helping a puppy love his crate. It had a remote control becides the timed delivery. You can watch the dog.. when he quiets for a minute, trigger a treat reward that drops from the top of the crate. He thinks when he gets quiet, he gets a food reward. Only works on food motivated dogs though.

.