Founder

[Kawgirl]

My gelding, Pepper, foundered on grass last April. Luckily, he has recovered without any complications, except his hooves often feel warm. His is not lame and doesn't even show founder rings. I have had two horses in the past that had foundered with their previous owners, but this is the first horse that has foundered in my care. Neither of the other two ever had warm hooves while I had them, although they both had a much more severe case of founder than Pepper did. Has anyone else who have had a horse that foundered found that their hooves continued to be warm, even though they show no signs of lameness?

 

[kaykay]

i have seen this happen. be very very careful come spring. they can seem fine and then a little spring grass puts them lame again. sending good thoughts

Kay

 

[Fantasia]

Agree with Kay - watch him come Spring. I have a mare like this. I have found by only letting her on old grass helps, as does a probiotic chock full of live microbes. Really helped balance the PH and she hasn't foundered since. Might be worth a go.

 

[mightymiracles]

Let me ask this(not meant to sound stupid) Did you ever check his hooves on a regular basis before he foundered? It might be a normal temp for his hooves, just like our temps our pets (dogs, horses etc) all have a different normal temp. They are also higher temps then ours so to our touch they will always feel warm ( I think specially in this cold weather). Just a thought.

 

[Knighthawke]

The important thing is to feel for the pulse at the back of the pasturn. Usually it is really faint and hard to feel. If you can feel it or it is pounding then I would be concerned and call the vet.

If you cannot find it you might want to next time your vet comes out have him show you where to feel.

I personally have not had one founder but I have bought a 4 mares that had previous history of founder. All there feet now look normal.

I will say I don't have lush pasture so I don't have to worry. Let alone since they are broodmares with them being infoal they use up a lot of the calories and etc they eat because it goes to the foal.

I was told by vet the best thing is to keep her in foal. So we do.

Barb

 

[JourneysEnd]

The important thing is to feel for the pulse at the back of the pasturn. Usually it is really faint and hard to feel. If you can feel it or it is pounding then I would be concerned and call the vet.

Warm feet may just be normal for your horse depending on what damaged occurred the last time.

The problem with Laminitis is it can cause permanent blood vessel damage in the hooves. This is why it's paramount you avoid another case of Laminitis. The next time will be worse (as you probably have damage from the last one).

Checking the digital pulse is the best way to tell if you currently have inflammation in the hoof.

The difficult part with Laminitis is by the time you can tell, the damage is already happening

(This is true for vets & farriers too) but if you react quickly you can usually minimize the chances of founder.

It is possible for a horse to recover from Laminitis without foundering, which sounds like what happened in your case.

 

[shorthorsemom]

You might want to get some blood work done as a precaution. Cushings, thyroid are two that I can think of. My babys pony foundered, I thought it was the grass that caused it but found out that he had cushings. He didn't look typical cushings either, smooth hair, not cresty either. There are also articles on the internet on when grasses store sugar. Spring and fall but I also found out that grass under stress can store sugars. I had one horse many years ago that foundered during a drought. We also found out he had thyroid issues. We used a muzzle and thyroid meds for many years and no re-occurance of the founder. My one boy had warm feet, but it was the digital pulse as was mentioned earlier post that was an indicator that I had something brewing. Best wishes.

 

[Charlene]

I will say I don't have lush pasture so I don't have to worry. Let alone since they are broodmares with them being infoal they use up a lot of the calories and etc they eat because it goes to the foal.
I was told by vet the best thing is to keep her in foal. So we do.

Barb

that isn't always necessarily true. horses can get fat on hay and a fat horse is much more prone to founder than a fit horse.

as for keeping a mare in foal to prevent founder...hmmm

 

[Kawgirl]

Thanks for all the help. I read an article yesterday about grass under stress from overgrazing can cause founder. Yet, I've been told by several people to keep him in a confined area so he can't eat too much.

He is not fat and other than his hooves sometimes being warm, he is in excellent health, especially for 23 years old! We had a really wet spring last year when this happened and he was on the same pasture he had been on for 11 years, and had not had any recent changes made to his diet. My vet said that there was only about a 1% chance that a horse his age that had never foundered would founder without drastic changes made to his diet. It's almost time for his yearly checkup, I'll see about getting some bloodwork done.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I highly recommed you visit this website below (Katy Watts):

http://www.safergrass.org

Liz R.

 

[JourneysEnd]

If keeping a mare in foal prevents her from going into laminitis, she may have cushings.

That is a classic symptom of cushings.

Has your vet run a dex suppression test ?

 

[Fantasia]

Being in foal didn't stop my girl from foundering - and she did it in the third trimester!!!! Was very scary for a while. Caused by very sudden Spring flush after a cold start to the season. Yes, we did bloods and she has been known to founder for about seven years. Plain diet with few supplements has her on right track and foal helping too.

Her feet fluctuate in temperature so very good indicator if something getting outta balance. Also her breathing changes - faster.

 

[BigDogs & LittleHorses]

I wonder how much warmer they really are...

You could buy a cheap infrared non-contact thermometer at Harbor Freight for about $10-15 that you could measure the actual surface temperature with, then compare it to other, non-foundered horses. Mine is called Cen-Tech and got it for $9.99. It's handy for all kinds of things.

Do you have a dry lot ready for your guy?

 

[Cara]

when china had foundered, i first noticed she was laying down and it was actually the barn manger who informed me of what was going on, she was laying down alot , we called the vet and sure enough she was, it wasn't till after that she started limping and showing signs. if your horse has foundered off of grass, keep him/her off , i have with china and shes been ok, im like paranoid now lol

 

[Marty]

I was told by vet the best thing is to keep her in foal. So we do.

Sorry, but that is just plain nuts.

Never say never Kawgirl. My quarter horse is 25 and got laminitis last fall. Was no picnic. I'd be doing something about that situation. Any heat in the feet would have me very concerend. Be careful and best wishes to you.

 

[Kawgirl]

His feet are not warm all the time. Tonight they are cold, but occassionally they are warm, not as hot as when the founder happened, just warmer than they normally are. He shows no signs of lameness. And I don't think he has cushings, he has a gorgeous shiny coat, bright shiny eyes and is at a very good weight. He still enjoys driving and has lots of energy. Just wish I could figure out why he has this off and on problem with his hooves.

 

[MiLo Minis]

If there was any degree of rotation that occurred during his episode of founder that could be the cause of the heat in his feet now. If his toes get at all long they are putting stress on his feet. Have you had him x-rayed? Do you keep his feet trimmed appropriately and frequently? Are his feet less warm when he is first trimmed?