Gelded stud bad attitude

[MajorClementine]

Last fall we gelded Major because we decided not to breed him to our mare. Her legs are a little crooked and she's not papered so I'd rather buy a filly down the road. Anyway... I got Major because he was such an amazing horse not because he was a stud. I knew gelding would change his personality a little but most studs mellow out (some too much) when you geld them. Not him. He is impossible to catch now and has kind of turned into a little turd. We haven't changed our workout program or feeding program. I don't know what his deal is. He does still act a little stud-ish with my mare when they get to running and chasing. He was gelded in October 2011. Any ideas?

 

[kaykay]

The longer he was a stallion the longer it takes to have them act gelding like. How old was he when he was gelded?

Remember gelding is not a cure for anything. If they had bad habits before they will still have them after.

If he was mine I would separate him from his buddy and do some retraining for a week or so.

For catching issues I stall them for a couple days and train them to come to me in the stall. Then they go in a small paddock ALONE and again stay there until they come to me. When they consistently do not try to avoid being caught they can go back out with their friends

 

[Davie]

I had a stallion that had a wonderful, easy to work with attitude. He was a driving stallion and had exceptional manners. I decided to geld him as he was a stallion that was a little more stocky and was not want I was wanted to use in my program any more. When I gelded him he turned into a JECKLE/HYDE mentality.

He had lived alone for so long, even through he was a pasture breeding stallion, that he did not know how to interact with the herd and was absolutely horrorable at feeding time, he would kick -- did not care at who or what wasa round a feeder. He would chase any of the horses off who came near him at feeding time.

Since I lived alone and was the sole caretaker for the horses I could not longer take the chance that he would accidently injury me during feeding time so I sold him to a wonderful family where he is the only horse at the time and he was just fine. He just could not make the adjustment to a herd enviroment.

I also have a 20 year old gelding that I did not geld until he was over 8 years old. The only residual "stallion" attitude he has is when you put a new horse in with "HIS" group he will chase it and not allow it into the herd. I just put him in "HORSEY JAIL" for a couple of days and then turn him back out with the group and all is well and peaceful.

 

[Lizzie]

Years ago I owned a wonderful Foxtrotter stallion. He had a successful show career and was a perfect and quiet gentleman in any situation. He would trail ride with mares and never look at them. He was bred a few times but it didn't change his lovely nature. When he was about 10 or 12, I gelded him. He was never the same again. Just became bad-tempered, nasty toward other horses and generally not nice.

I was talking to an elderly lady at a horse show and mentioned my stallion, now gelded. She said she had seen this change several times. She said she never gelds her really quiet and well behaved older stallions, since for some reason, a few seem to change. Since then, I have heard others say the same thing. I've never seen the change in dogs - just some horses.

Not that I am against gelding. I'm all for it, if they are not being used at stud or are not breeding quality. It just seems to happen that a few change in their disposition. I am at a loss to explain it.

Lizzie

 

[Windhaven]

Well I have gelded older stallions and have never seen this happen. So I find this very interesting.

I just wonder if maybe they are proud cut and to much of the tube was left in so that still gives them stallion tendences. I have seen proud cut gelding come more agressive. So maybe this is what most of the problems are due to. And unfortunately there is no cure for a proud cut gelding.

 

[susanne]

When Mingus was a stallion, he suffered from testerone poisoning...then we had him gelded. For the first few weeks he was even worse, which I wouldn't have thought possible. Then he settled into his "boss gelding" persona -- aka the boss of everything. He would "ride" Thelonius and Flash and boss them around. Around us he was a big love goober, but he tried to strong-arm us -- and as a big B-sized mini, he was very powerful.

The answer with him was giving him a job: driving. Part of his driving training was installing power brakes -- an absolute whoa. He is still a proud, spirited horse, but he is beyond trustworthy between the shafts. I can trust him with anyone -- to the point that he plays babysitter with anyone he doesn't know (at times to my embarrassment, as Al B will confirm).

Another important thing is to reconcile your innate personality with being the "boss mare." Keith and I are both softies; our wonderful trainer/coach pointed out that we didn't need to be harsh or break his spirit -- we just needed to be firm, consistent and follow through on whatever we asked.

These days, Mingus is the boss of everything except Keith and me. He still likes to test, but each time the answer is the same -- do what I say and we'll all be happy. Grab for grass while in halter? Let's not and say we did. If he is a good boy, he will be rewarded, but NOT UNTIL IT IS MY IDEA. We aim to always present the same message: This is not a democracy, but a benign dictatorship.

This is my verbose way of saying that a dominant personality will not necessarily be altered with gelding -- it will simply not be hormonally driven. I would approach him as I would a new horse, starting from scratch with training and getting the help of a trainer if needed. Remember that every moment you spend with your horse, you are teaching them. Don't give up on him...it may be a long road, but it's well worth the time.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

You'd be peeved too if someone cut off your testicles!

 

[susanne]

.

HEY!!

No knee crossing allowed!

.

 

[MajorClementine]

He isn't agressive at all. Not towards me or the other mini. The biggest change is he used to walk right up to me now he takes off if I walk his way. If I corner him he turns towards me and figures he's caught. He also seems a little more high strung than he was before. Nervous about baths and clipping. It's strange. Maybe the answer is to just go back to the basics with him and teach it all over from square one. We were working on driving training last fall before we got him gelded then only did minimal work through the winter. Maybe he had too much of a vacation.

I think I'll take him down to the barn where there is a round pen. I'll keep him in a stall for a while as suggested and work him in the round pen.

Sounds like maybe having a buddy in the pasture now makes him seek my attention less. I didn't think of that. He was 11 when gelded. Guess that's a long time to be alone. Now he has Clem and doesn't need me anymore. Sad but prob true and a big part of our problem.

 

[wildoak]

All the above suggestions are valid - he is older and may need to have his brain "re-aligned" lol. Just another thing to throw out there - could he possibly have some discomfort remaining from surgery? The nervousness makes me think maybe... might be worth having him adjusted by a chiropractor or bodywork done, in case he has some kinks somewhere. Shouldn't do him any harm and might help.

I have a gelding we've been ground driving, has always been calm and sweet, and he'd become a basket case to drive...nervous, afraid of everything. He had a broken tooth that was jabbing him. I think so often with horses there is a physical reason for misbehavior, I've seen it with riding horses too.. they are basically such honest creatures.

Jan

 

[shorthorsemom]

Just a thought, but have you had his teeth checked lately? Fear and shying often come from the mouth and it could have nothing to do with the gelding. For my guys to make them easy to catch and halter, I feed them haltered and tied every day. They get a halter, get tied and then fed... they decide that this getting caught is pretty cool. Clicker training can help too, maybe folks will chime in on how clicker training can boost confidence and reward correct behavior.

My one gelding was a stallion until he was 10. He was the sweetest stallion and he is the sweetest gelding, I have never heard of a horse going the opposite direction after gelding, so this is very interesting topic. best wishes.