Getting very frustrated with people

[lil hoofbeats]

I have been a Horse trader/flipper/breeder for many years now. I have a quite the reputatation as the the person to go to if you are looking for something specific. I have bought several horses and most of the mares that were pretty nice i have kept and raised babies off of, and have done pretty well. I also have sold many many horses via the internet, and have ALWAYS had repeat customers and i am very proud of that fact. If a sale has not gone well for what ever reason, i have always gone above and beyond what most people would do to "make it right." In the past few years i have bought several horses from people who tell me how much they "love" there horses, and want them sold to forever homes, and want them in "pet" homes and, well you know the spill. I make them and offer, and they say i am "low balling" and i am a "flipper" and dont take it, and they after a while they usually call me back and agree to sell me the horse as i offered them more than anyone else offered them, and i pay in full and dont have to make payments.

This is where the problem comes in. I get the horse, and it is showing every rib, you can count the vertebra on the spine, and the hip bones look like a tent because there is no muscle or fat on them. When i worm them, they pour out two or three different types of worms for 3 days because they obviously have not been wormed in months or years. I keep the horse for 2-3 months feeding them and worming them, because it takes that long to get them in condition to show anyone so they dont call the humane society on me. I put them up for sale, and then previous owners complaine that i am making a profit, and tell any potential people that call them what i paid for them for the horse and that they cannot believe that i am asking that for the animal. What they dont tell the potential buyers is that they( previouse owners) half starved the animals, and neglected them, and that i have several months of work/feed/wormer/ in getting the animal up to par and in reasonable shape. It is astounding to me that people can tell me how much they love thier animals, and how they want them to be cared for and in loving homes, and dont want them to go to a horse trader/flipper, but when I get them they look like death warmed over.

I have always been of the opinion that if you cannot care for your horse sell it! if you cannot sell it, give it to someone who can at least feed and worm it!

Dont complaine about how much you paid for it and hold on to it for months and months then finally sell it after it is in terrible shape. Then have the nerve to complaine when the person who bought it sells if for a profit after they spent money, time and effort into the animal that they themselves would not or could not! Yes! i my be a trader/flipper, but my horses are fed and wormed , and get good basic care. People continue to amaze me

 

[Riverrose28]

First of all I want to state, I'm not a flipper, nor ever have been, but I do have a friend that is one. This is just my opinion on the subject. You are performing a necessary service to the animals. Yes some of these animals are not the best bred in the world, but they are living creators with feelings, they are taken to auction, or left to starve, whatever. You are in a sence rescueing them. If you can bring them back to health and resell them them you are doing the best for the animals. My friend buys animals that I wouldn't give 2 cents for, long backs, short legs, big heads, etc. get the picture, but she pays a little and resells them for some profit just to pay for her feed and hay. Otherwise these poor animals would suffer some more. There are just too many ill informed breeders out there influxing the market with these sub-standard poor horses. But, On the other hand these horses have feelings and need to be saved and rehomed with pet people only that have no intention on breeding. She states that when reselling them. The sad part is some of the ones she buys are already bred, and their conformation is awlful. I realize we can't education everyone, as hard as we try, but there is no reason the animals should suffer because of human ignorance.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

The "service" i am doing is trying to put money in my pocket as profit off of horses that i buy/raise. There for i am labeled a trader/flipper. Most people dont like that.

It is astounding how many times people have sent me there "beloved" "pets" and told me they wanted them in forever loving homes, and when they got here they were half starved and full of worms, and told me they thought they were fat because they had huge bellys. Then they go on and on about how they want them in loving attentive homes. If i were a horse i would rather be in a home where my basic needs such as food worming and vet care, even if it is a horse trader then to belong to someone who doted on me and told me how much they loved me, then with hold food and basic care, some of these people are "loving" there horses to death. Shocking what people will tell you, then you find out how much they really valued the animal when you see the condition it arrives in.

 

[kaykay]

I can so relate and have heard it all over the years.

I have always said there is nothing wrong with flipping horses as long as you do it ethically and take care of the horse.

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

I don't see a problem with it either. As long as you are up front with people. I know some flippers do the speal of " oh I will love it and keep it forever". Some people would loer the price just for that reason.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Its just they tell me how great the animal is, and how much they think of it and how they love it and want it to be in a wonderful place, and it gets here looking like a skeleton and full of worms, that shows what they really thought of the animal,(not even enough to feed it) kinda makes you wonder does'nt it?

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I think it's the bad traders - the ones that try to hide their purpose and put bare minimum care into their stock before reselling it - that give the rest a bad name. We have one of those kinds only a few minutes away, and they make my skin crawl, but I also know a couple traders that are quite literally transforming their stock's lives just by putting some training on them and advertising them like they're worth something. Back on topic, though, I also get irritated by negligent owners that insist that their tossed aside horses get the kind of homes they themselves are unwilling to provide them with. I'm not saying the horses don't deserve great homes, but how do these people expect them to get those homes when they've not put so much as a tube of wormer in them, let alone bothered to train or register them?

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

I am new but what is a flipper?

 

[Marty]

I have always stated in my ads that I do not want my horses to be flipped because I want to be the one to choose where they go.

I am going to assume you are ethical and moral about this and careful about the people you are flipping to and not misrepresenting a horse to make a sale. If that's the case, I don't think what you do is wrong as long as you are upfront about it which you say you are. You have stated that you are honest and help make things right if they go wrong. I feel you have absolutely every right to make a profit, (and its probably not much) like anyone else and are helping horses out of a bad situation.

 

[Reble]

Flippers at some time or another get noticed, people talk, and yes not all are up front, they also have a fine story to tell, on how they are going to use and keep the horse, than find out later just flipping to make money, goes both ways, not sure in our economy today if even flippers are making a profit.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Hi Marty! Thank you for taking time to read my post. Its not really about whether i am right or wrong to buy to sell for a profit stores do it all the time, Petsmart, and Petco and numerous others do it daily. I just make an offer and if the people want the offer then great, if not then sell it so someone else.

The real issue here is they tell me this LOOOONG spill about how it has been the wonderful pet, and they paid SOOOOO much for it, and what a wonderful animal it is and how special it is to them, and how they want it to be in a forever home with attention. When the animal arrives at my house, it is in HORIBLE condition. I mean come on!!! This has happened for the past couple of years. You cannot see the condition of the animal in a picture with its winter fur on, so i am at the mercy of the seller who is telling me how special this horse is to them.

I could not resale it when i get it, even it if i wanted to. If i sold a horse off my property that was skinny and full of worms, and looked like they did when i got them, my name would be bashed and slammed on the internet, but people feel if it is OK to do that to a trader, or someone who has been thought of as a trader.

 

[ruffian]

An easy way around this is to take photos of the horse upon arrival. Then if someone asks why you are asking so much when you paid so little, whip out the photos. Nuff said!

Everybody who has horses is a horse trader, whether they want to admit it or not. If they wanted the horse in a "forever loving home" why are THEY selling it?

Hang in there - you're doing just fine.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Definitely agree with you, but I wouldn't class you as a flipper, in the sense of I think of a flipper as someone that buys/sells crappy horses in crappy condition. I've seen those.

I know horse traders that do buy low/sell high, but isn't that what we all should be doing? I won't pass up a bargain that I "know" I can turn around quickly. Although that isn't my specialization. I'm not against someone making money in any way. One of the best ones I know in my area, I refer people to if I don't have what they're looking for. Reliable, well connected and sells healthy good horses.

I had to repo some horses last year, the woman had the nerve to tell me she wasn't a 'bad mommy' although the horses were bags of bones, and hadn't been trimmed in over a year. Three months of feeding, deworming and trims, surprise healthy horses.

Personally I'd love all my horses to go to forever homes, but life happens, needs and wants change, so I do understand that and try to work with buyers, to rehome/sell the horse (assuming they tell me).

I'd rather though have someone be up front about the purchase. Yes, I'm buying it with the intent of resale, training, resale, etc., versus lying that it is a forever home and they sell it two months later. I always ask buyers to please pass my information along to any future home so new owners can get any information, etc., should they need it.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I can honestly say, most of the horses i buy are for my herd, they should compliment one of my stallions, and i buy them with the thought of adding them to my herd, not with the intent of resale, how ever is someone inquires, yes they have a price, everything on my farm has a price.

What really bothers me is that people sell me a horse and send it looking like it has been in a concentration camp. I mean did they really not notice the long hair, listless coat and spiney look in June????? REALLY?????

Then when i finally get the horse looking good and take better pics and sell it for a profit they question my ethics?????

Then ask me how i could do such a thing as sell "their" beloved horse???

If you dont want your horse "traded" dont trade it yourself. But at least feed and take care of it. Dont sell it to me looking like an animal cruelty case victom, then complaine that i sold it for a profit. Because i assure you i paid MUCH more for that animal than what the original owners recieved.

 

[Tremor]

Lil Hoofbeats,

From the sound of your posts you seem to have a very nice set up in your breeding and health program. It sounds like you've brought more than one horse from the brink of death. I'd be very interested to see some before and after pictures if you had any.

I think its also understandable that every horse has a price. Therefore, more people get the benefit of that horse and can better their herd after you have.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Lil Hoofbeats,

From the sound of your posts you seem to have a very nice set up in your breeding and health program. It sounds like you've brought more than one horse from the brink of death. I'd be very interested to see some before and after pictures if you had any.

I think its also understandable that every horse has a price. Therefore, more people get the benefit of that horse and can better their herd after you have.

I have a few i could send , but i am afraid that people would recognize and know where they came from, as i dont want to point a direct finger at anyone in particular i could PM them if you would like to see

 

[miniwhinny]

Everybody who has horses is a horse trader, whether they want to admit it or not. If they wanted the horse in a "forever loving home" why are THEY selling it?

I have to 100% agree with this. ANYONE who breeds minis with the intention of selling the foal is flipping them. The only reason they keep them 6 months is it's a decent weaning time. They are being bred to be sold and for no other reason. One more thing...I've yet to meet a breeder who won't sell that "beloved baby" to an unknown, unchecked home if the purchase price (or something slightly close) is offered...AND I've yet to buy a horse from anything but a backyard breeder (who IMO are THE best breeders because they only have one or two foals a year and they are cared for) that hasn't arrived full of worms.

 

[Riverrose28]

So sad, I buy wormer buy the case, just had two cases deliverd by UPS today. It's not that expensive for goodness sakes. I currently have a mare in a stall that I bought at auction, full of worms, so full she looked like she was pregnant, but good pedigree and great color and conformation is good, I'll bring her around and hopfully have agood brood mare, she is too old to start showing. Also she is depressed, poor baby. So little money to spend on getting them healthy, what a shame.

 

[eagles ring farm]

Most of us on here (not all)buy or sell horses at one time or another as someone else mentioned we breed our mares with the intent of selling at least some foals. So therefore we are all traders to a point.

If these people loved their horses so much wanting to be sure to find forever homes for them they should be thanking you for bringing them into such good health that you can find good homes for them. And what they sold them for and what you sold them for, should not even be an issue. What happened to how much they loved them and you making a good home possible.

I'm sorry you have received horses in such bad shape from people who say they love them so.

We all try to find what we feel comfortable in our decision is a good home, but it unreasonable to think as a seller someones plans or abilities to keep them won't change through the years.

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

It is very ironic that I would log on and find this post. Especially after my adventure this past weekend. I was telling my husband that I wanted to go to an auction because I had not been to one (just to go and not "work" the auction) since 2007. Now I know "why" I have not been and "why" I will not go again "anytime" soon. I promise that my post will be relevant to the "horse flipper" thread. Anyway....OMG...I am still just so very saddened by the condition of some of these horses....just pure emaciation.....One man saw me looking at his yearling filly in complete disbelief and he came over and said "Now, she is a little thin because she runs will older mares and all of the other fillies and she is at the bottom of the pecking order"......What?....uhhhh....did it ever dawn on you to possibly seperate her so she could eat or even worm her. He no saled her....and is taking her back home to most likely "die".....That is not the worst of it......he bought one....yep.....sure did. Now to me..."ignorance" isn't really an excuse for this behavior.....can you imagine what the rest of his herd looks like....yes...he has at least forty.....

Anyway, I absolutely see nothing wrong with buying a horse, turning it around and selling it for profit or otherwise....sometimes it is the "humane" thing to do.

I do understand that the OP is stating that she has bought horses that people have carried on about being their "beloved" horse and then got them to their farm only to realize that the horse has not been previously cared for properly. I think the OP has the right to resell the horse if she wants to. Alot of purchases are made via the internet these days and who is to say that when you get that horse home that it is exactly "what" you thought it was....and if it doesn't really "fit" into your program then why not resell it?

I can tell you that if I had the room, I would have purchased a few this past weekend just as rescues with reselling them in mind as they are not what I would have wanted to keep......but even the pet quality horses need love and care.