Good and bad news - my first pregnant minis

[Kubilee]

I went out Monday morning to feed my babies, like I always do and noticed something beside the stall and thought someone had been throwing objects into my horses pen and boy was I ever mad. It looked like a red towel from the distance I was seeing it from. I went into the shed, got their hay, unlocked their pen, fed them, same as every other morning at 7 AM. After I had them eating, I walked over to get whatever was in their pen out and noticed it was a baby, still in the sack. having helped cats with their babies for more than 5 years, I knew what needed to be done, but I knew instantly this wasn't going to end well at all. I broke the sack and checked for breath, and sadly there was none... my next move was to find out which one of my horses had lost a baby. Mind you, I didn't even know there was a pregnant horse in my little family. I was told my now 2 year old wasn't fertile yet as he hadn't yet dropped. I found out which one it was and checked her to make sure she was ok and then dealt with the issue at hand. It was one of the hardest things I had had to do in a long long time. Thankfully she is ok. No infections, no nothing like that and the baby was in good shape, I was told that this sometimes happens, but wow, I wasn't ready for that. But Sky is fine... that's what ultimately matters.

The good news is that Tori is also pregnant and doing very well. She should be having her baby around the end of February. She is all up to date on everything, and she is fine as well. But I have to admit, I am a little more than scared, I don't want a repeat performance of that. I also have a couple of girls I can call at a moments notice now, so that helps me a great deal as well. And both have had babies many times before with very good results, so that helps as well.

I wanted Banner and tori to have one baby and then get Banner setup for his appointment to get him fixed. I in NO WAY want to or intend to become a breeder at all. I just wanted to have that experience and have my 14 yr old who shares this adventure with me, to have this experience.

Any advice or tips you could offer would be great. I/we have been reading like mad, crazy people, everything we can on what can go wrong and what to look out for so we will be as prepared as we can be. We are so excited, but at the same time, a bit nervous. We've both aided in our animals given birth many many times, but never with a horse.

 

[Lizzie]

I maybe am not understanding all your post, although I do understand that you are pretty frazzled right now.

First of all, I'm so glad your mare came through this ok. I hope you have called the vet to have her thoroughly checked. Did you keep (I hope) everything she passed, for the vet to see? He will want to see that. Keep her away (and any others you don't want bred), from your boy/s. This whether or not they look to have dropped. It sounds as though your mare had a red bag delivery. Not uncommon in Minis. Google red bag deliveries and read up on it. I believe I have a movie somewhere, of a red bag delivery and how to handle it. If not, there might be some on Youtube.

Now about breeding. If you have ever bred any animal, then you are indeed a breeder. However, you might have purchased these two mares already in foal. You also say you have another mare pregnant but didn't know any mare in your family was pregnant. This is the part I don't understand.

Mares of any breed can fool us, but I really do think Minis fool us more than most. They look in foal when they are not and sometimes not in foal when they are. It pays to check over our horses constantly and especially udders on mares. This whether or not one considers them open or bred.

Luckily for breeders these days, there is a ton of info on the net if one looks for it. You might also do a search on this forum, if there is anything in particular you want to know. Obviously your pregnant mare will need a different diet from open ones. Your mare who just foaled, will also need special care and both probably need shots. When your next mare foals, have a foaling kit ready and a covered bucket for the sack/afterbirth etc. You vet will want to inspect it. A covered bucket so that other animals don't get into it before the vet arrives. We have discussed foaling kits here recently. It will give you a good idea of what to have on hand.

I'm glad you have friends close by, in case of an emergency in the future. Keep us posted on how your mares are doing and we'd love to see photos.

Lizzie

 

[Eagle]

I am so sorry that you had to experience this but as Lizzie said it is quite common in mini's, in fact many of us have our mares in a stall with a video camera so we can watch them at night. It can be all over in as little as 10 minutes so you really need to be there for your mare so that you can help if needed.

I understood from your post that the vet has been and checked this mare and told you that the other one is preggy too, is that correct? You said you wanted Banner and Tori to have a foal together, was this just an idea in your head? How long have you had these horses? If you stallion is only 2 I wander if they were preggo when you bought them, I know it is possible for a yearling to cover but I don't think it is very common. I am glad you have friends near you to help cos mini's foaling can be really hard and definitely isn't for the faint hearted.

Hugs Renee

 

[Lindi-loo]

Aww so sorry for your loss must have been a real shock for you but yes it happens sadly..Im sure you will find all the help and support here that you need with your pregnant mare and her new baby when it arrives

..Congratulations..dont forget to enjoy every minute its very precious

 

[lucky lodge]

iam sorry to hear your very sad loss..ive got my mares under camera and foal alarms on

but i dont put them on tilll thay get closer,,so thats no help if thay abort early

but i surpose its nature maybe something was wrong

iam sending you huge big hugs as i no how heartbreaking it would be

:wub

:wub

 

[Matt73]

Colts should be no where near fillies/mares after six months of age. Colts can be fertile from as young as 9 months of age.

btw...where do you live? Hope it's in the southern hemisphere (not a nice time to be raising a foal, otherwise

)

 

[Kubilee]

Unfortunately I didn't save anything for the vet when she got here, she scolded me a little about that one as well. I pray it doesn't happen again so I won't have to do it. But yes, I did at least do that one thing smart, I called a Vet later in the day when she opened and I could get them here. She was here yesterday. Sky and everything about her is ok.... that was all I was even worried about at the time.

I got them last year for Christmas, and was told when I bought them that it was possible Tori was pregnant, but when her due date came and went for September, we knew she wasn't pregnant. So I didn't think much more about it. Well, ok, I thought more about it, but not in terms of them already having gotten pregnant by my Banner. That is a whole other story in itself.

I appreciate the term and am about to google that right this minute. I did do a great deal of research and read what I could find regarding this and am a little more armed on that now, between that and this Vet. I am not so sure about that breeder part, I raised Persians and Himalayans for a few years, and often had to help them, but that's about the extent of my knowledge in that area. One thing that helps is that I am not afraid to do what I have to do in a situation, but I have very much to learn about this where it relates to Horses, and I have set myself up with a great support system if and when the time comes that I need it, so that helps.

Where it relates to Banner. I got him as a friend to my Peebie, who was just a baby and struggling to "fit in" and was forever getting beat up and kicked. I was told when I was told he was bought and I finally talked to the guy, that Banner was only 8 months old, so I didn't think about anything relating to breeding and wasn't setup at the time to have a separate pen, I AM NOW!! But anyway, he, as it turned out was 8 months old when that guy got him, but when I got him he was nearly 2, and not being setup for a way to separate them, I put them all together and pulled Peebie out and put her in a different area the instant I seen how big he was. She as so little so it wasn't an issue to pull just her away. In reading and calling the vet every other day and so on, I was told he likely wasn't fertile as his testicles hadn't dropped yet. And to watch for that, which I did, very diligently. If you seen him, and I think I have a good pic of him, you'd know exactly why we fell in love with him with just a simple pic to go on. We also found out after we got him and was told he was broke, that he'd not even been touched by humans past the point of knocking him in the head and feeding him. Within a couple of weeks I had him lead broke and he's now the sweetest and best behaved one I have.

ALL of my horses, sadly, were all but rescues, as it turned out, they had all suffered some sort of abuse so it was very trying to get them to trust me.... but and I am so proud of this, they all trust me now and think nothing of coming up and putting their faces on my chest and letting me know they feel safe now. I sure didn't walk into this thinking about anything remotely similar to getting abused horses, but it seems all 4 of them have been on some level or another... so I am extra special attached to all of them.

We are going out to get some cameras on Tuesday when I get paid and get that setup. So I will have that part taken care of as well. I spend almost every waking minute out there with them and watching them now, so I'll never sleep once I get that setup. I could literally just sit there and watch them 24/7, they are such amazing little creatures and I adore them more than anyone will ever know.

BUT, I learned a very special lesson with this, even if I thought I knew as much as I could know about them between being raised on horses and google and this place here, I found out I have a LOT to learn and all of it isn't going to be good, but I love them and they love me, so we'll make it thru just fine. The separating them being first on my list...... I do NOT want to be a breeder, like I said, I just wanted my daughter and I to have that experience. And I thought I was planning it well by having him and Tori have a baby and then having him fixed. I guess it didn't work out that way.

BUT at the end of the day, everyone is fine, healthy and happy and all h ave their shots and all caught up on that. Banner has an appointment with what I figure ANY male would call the walk of death, having their man parts played with in such a way..... that was a joke.. lol

Whether you realize it or not, this place has taught me a great deal, in lurking and reading and so on.... so for that I thank you.

Let me see if I can find a pic for banner and I'll post it. he is so pretty.

 

[mrsj]

Hi, you sound as if you have things sorted now, glad your mares are ok, when do you think this baby is due? Would love to see a picture of your stallion.

 

[Kubilee]

This is Banner in the pic my husband was sent to make him buy this baby for me for Valentine's Day. Hi goal was not for breeding purposes, nothing other than getting this little guy for me as a surprise and getting Peebie a friend to help her thru issues we were having with her. This is what he was told he looked like when he paid for him and what CAME to my home as my surprise was a lot more of a surprise than a beautiful and exquisite animal. Supposedly 3 months older than Peebie.

Banner at 8 months old, little did my husband know, this was taken one YEAR before. IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT COLOR HE IS, that would be helpful. My 14 yr old is driving herself crazy trying to figure out what color baby they will be having. HE has two quarter size white spots, one under his mane and one on the very top of his rump, right above his tail.



THIS is the Banner that was delivered to my home on Valentine's Day. This was actually taken a couple of months later after I got him sorted out. But he hasn't changed much in that time. When he got here, he was wild, he kicked the guy we bought him from down and trampled him before I could get a grip on him and pull him into some sort of control. We put Peebie in her stall and pulled the rest out of the pen completely and I worked with him for several hours. I remembered when my grandfather was breaking horses, he'd blow gently in their noses, so I went about this, all the while, him pulling me all over the place and I am not a spring chicken. lol

When I remembered the blowing in the nose thing from MY childhood, I was at a point where it was do or die with him. We probably should have sent him back with that old man, but after the way he reacted to Banner kicking him down, there was no way in heck-o I was sending him back with him. The blowing in his nose seemed to calm him very much and he stopped his snorting and started to calm down drastically. After about an hour, I had him where I could walk him around by his halter, but there was no way he was letting me put a lead on him. I proceeded to walk him around the perimeter of the pen he was to live in, all the while him trying to bite my feet and ankles. I'd jerk his head up and make him pay attention, if he didn't, I'd bring my foot up from behind me and kick his back hip, not hard, enough to shock him. We did this for a long time, what seemed like forever. He finally calmed way down and was able to stand by me without me having a death grip on that halter.

I then brought Tori in with him and it was just the 3 of us. Tori is the herd leader without question from anyone.... Tori gave him the what-for's and snapped his tail right in line and within about an hour, they were getting along fine, and he was minding her like she was his mom. The snorting and kicking had completely stopped and they were coming to a peaceful place. He still didn't like being lead, but I put Tori on a lead and walked her around, while he was tied up. He'd watch and snort and grumble and then settle down and watch. I'd bring Tori close to him and pet him and her at the same time.... we did this for the rest of that day and into the next. By the end of the first day, I introduced Sky to them and she stayed by Tori and would get between him and Tori if he came near. After awhile of this, I stepped out of their vision point, but was still watching them. They had their lilttle fits but no impact kicking, meaning none of them connected, they'd just kick and buck for a bit. Pretty soon, all calmed down and since that day, they have all gotten along beautifully, and still do.

This is Banner and Tori together.



This is Sky and Tori when I found out I was going to be getting Peebie and when I finally got wind of Peebie, I started talking to the girl I got her from. This was a Christmas shock from my husband. I knew about it after the fact, no fence, nothing. I guess he assumed I could just put her in my bedroom on a shelf or something, who knows with him? lmao. I was told she needed a friend, so I asked for other pics of others she had. I walked out of there with BOTH of these girls, Sky and Tori. Sky is the pinto and Tori being that dark colored one, I called her the brown one. lol I was later told she was a Grulla, whatever that is. They are both registered and, I found out later, had been bought from an auction a few weeks before. All I know is they both ducked when I raised my hand to pet them.... so of course they were coming home with me.



THIS is Peebie, the pic that was sent to my husband that made him buy her for me, just 5 months old in this pic. She is the one I got so much help from you all on and she is doing so well now. She has weight on her, she is a completely different baby now, all because of you all here. So take pride in that one, it's because of you all here and I am so proud of her. She was 5 months old in this pic, she is now 14 months old, extremely healthy and happy.. her favorite thing to do is put her forehead on ours when we bend over to get her kisses. lol



That's my family and our adventure thus far..... they have taught me so much and brought so much love to my whole family, and I never thought I could learn so much about anything in such a short time, and am still learning. lol The biggest thing, they are all so happy now and they all are so sweet and friendly. Not even one of them duck anymore...

 

[Kubilee]

Hi, you sound as if you have things sorted now, glad your mares are ok, when do you think this baby is due? Would love to see a picture of your stallion.

I like to think I have a handle on it, but I am finding out I have a ton more to learn, but I am enjoying doing it and I spend as much time as I can with them and when not with them, reading and learning as much as I can. My 14 yr old daughter is obsessed with them. Sky belongs to her and she is so good with them. She'll come out and tell me all the things she learns about them, many times during the day. She is home schooled and this is one of our "projects" now as well.

I wish I knew when she was due, but to be on the safe side, I am putting cameras out there within the week. The baby that was lost was about 12 inches from the tip of it's nose to the base of it's tail (give or take an inch or so) and looked to be a pinto, his color and white. I just wish I knew then what I do now, I'd have more data on it than i do, as I am just going by memory. I pray I won't need to know that again, but if it happens again, I am way better prepared.

So while I'd love to say I know when she'll deliver her baby, I honestly don't have a clue, as I didn't even know they were pregnant. I am going to get her an ultrasound done when this dust settles. The vet said she would be able to tell more then. If any of you have any ideas of about how far along that would make her, given they got pregnant about the same time frame, that would be great.

 

[wildoak]

Sorry for your loss - as you've heard, we have all been there. The most important thing in my book is to be there when you mare foals. After you've done all your homework, know what to expect and have your foaling supplies ready, be prepared to lose sleep and not have a life for awhile LOL. Lots of mares foal out alone and are just fine, but if something does go wrong or the sac doesn't break on it's own you have a very short time to get it right. Hope things go better with your other mare!

Jan

 

[Kubilee]

Sorry for your loss - as you've heard, we have all been there. The most important thing in my book is to be there when you mare foals. After you've done all your homework, know what to expect and have your foaling supplies ready, be prepared to lose sleep and not have a life for awhile LOL. Lots of mares foal out alone and are just fine, but if something does go wrong or the sac doesn't break on it's own you have a very short time to get it right. Hope things go better with your other mare!

Jan

Thankfully I don't sleep much as it is. I never have. I am in bed by 2-3 AM and back up at 6 Am without an alarm clock.. so I don't require a great deal of sleep. That really comes in handy when things like this come up.

We learned about colic with Banner, and i was out there with him until well after 3 AM when that happened, walking him around, making sure he was ok and so on. That is when he and I formed a very strong and lasting bond. I had to physically pick him up off the ground and force him to walk with me. Having a first child that was extremely bad with colic sure helped in that situation. But didn't know horses got it til then. lol

You can bet I'll be watching her like a crazy person and if I have to, I'll sleep in the shed 10 feet from her, or closer if needed. lol

I got the kit already, I had that from when I was told Tori was pregnant when I got her, she wasn't, but I did at least get that and have it here.

 

[Sandy B]

Are you sure the foal that was born was full term? To see something in the corner of the stall that looked like a red towel would seem to me, not be big enough to be full term. Mare's can abort a pregnancy at any time.

 

[Kubilee]

Are you sure the foal that was born was full term? To see something in the corner of the stall that looked like a red towel would seem to me, not be big enough to be full term. Mare's can abort a pregnancy at any time.

No, as I mentioned, it wasn't full term. From what I was able to remember to tell the vet and another girl that helps me along the way and from what I gathered from google... it appears that she was about 4-5 months at the very most. I knew the instant I seen it that it was not full term, it was just too small and not completely formed, but enough so that you could distinguish features and things. I really would rather not go into specifics about appearances again, with all due respect, it's just too hard.... but we did determine that at best, it was 5 months.... so somewhere in that area.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

It always seems as though mini people keep telling each other that colts descend late, and are not fertile. This is soooo wrong!! If they truly haven't descended, they are permanently infertile (true crypts) and should go to surgery to remove them. If they are just hiding them, they are indeed fertile!! As early as 9 months.

I'm really sorry for your loss, hopefully next time you'll get your advice from someone more knowledgeable.

 

[Kubilee]

It always seems as though mini people keep telling each other that colts descend late, and are not fertile. This is soooo wrong!! If they truly haven't descended, they are permanently infertile (true crypts) and should go to surgery to remove them. If they are just hiding them, they are indeed fertile!! As early as 9 months.

I'm really sorry for your loss, hopefully next time you'll get your advice from someone more knowledgeable.

I tell you one thing I am definitely learning, and that is if someone wants to rid themselves of a horse, they will tell you anything they think you want to hear to get it off their land and onto yours. I've never seen anything like it in any other animal, it's very intense. And if it isn't them trying to get them off their land and onto yours as fast as is possible, then they know every little thing there is to know.

Not referring to anyone here... but the ones I have dealt with here where I am. I have found only TWO people here that will shoot me straight, and reprimand me if I need it where they are involved, but I respect this one, I have tolearn and if I screw up, I want to know, so I don't keep screwing up.

 

[Lizzie]

Oh Kubilee, you do my heart, SO much good. It is so seldom, we who have been in horses for a while, hear from someone new, who is seriously interested in learning, not going their own way, (regardless of the advice given) and seems to be sucking up info like a sponge.

Bravo to you.

Lizzie

 

[Riverrose28]

I am so sorry that your mare lost her foal, and for the vet exspenses you had to pay. But what bothers me most is the fact that the people you bought from weren't totally honest with you, and now you sound so crushed. You will find that the people here are honest and will give you straight answers. They will also help you when asked. There are many honest breeders out there that will tell you the truth, such as a young stallion that hasn't yet dropped is furtile, such as Nathan as said. We will also share our experiences with you, all for education. Some of us have been in your shoes. I also bought a mare that the seller said was a maiden, well I'm experienced or so I thought, guess what this mare delivered a filly 10 months after I bought her. To make matters worse this filly couldn't be registered as the breeder said no way was she breed. Sometimes experience is our best teacher. Well I have an unregistered mare still as she is so lovely and she was shown by my Grand Daughter in 4-H and was pony champion, showmanship champion and trail in hand champion. We are all here for you! Hope your next mare foaling goes alot better.

 

[Wings]

Banner at 8 months old, little did my husband know, this was taken one YEAR before. IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT COLOR HE IS, that would be helpful. My 14 yr old is driving herself crazy trying to figure out what color baby they will be having. HE has two quarter size white spots, one under his mane and one on the very top of his rump, right above his tail.

View attachment 4446

He looks like a chestnut with flaxen mane/tail to me. The two white spots may mean nothing at all in regards to colour, my solid bay mare has one where she once rubbed her hair off.

I'm sorry for your loss and I hope the next one goes better.

Is Banner seperated from the girls now or is he going to be gelded? You don't want anymore suprise foals

 

[Kubilee]

He looks like a chestnut with flaxen mane/tail to me. The two white spots may mean nothing at all in regards to colour, my solid bay mare has one where she once rubbed her hair off.

I'm sorry for your loss and I hope the next one goes better.

Is Banner seperated from the girls now or is he going to be gelded? You don't want anymore suprise foals

No, I absolutely don't want anymore surprises, that's for sure. My plan was to let him and Tori have one baby and then get him gelded, as I am not into this for the breeding... like I said, I wanted my daughter and I to have that experience one time, but as for breeding them or anything like that, just not my thing and not something I want to get into at all. He will be gelded very very soon. He is in with them all now, but that is about to be fixed within the week as well. I have most of the stuff on hand to finish their pen now and we're setting the posts this weekend to make those other two pens as we had planned to do. When I get paid next week, the rest of the fencing is going to be gotten and put up.

As for being a sponge, my daughter and I are both completely obsessed with these beasts and we are doing and reading literally anything we can to learn all we can about them. Some of my most memorable and happy times when I was a kid was when I used to go visit with the horses with my grandfather and this is my way, I guess of connecting with him as well as making my daughter share this adventure with me. This may sound and come off very corny, but they are so important to both of us and we literally have gotten obsessed with them. They are such awesome little "people" and a crucial part of our family. Nothing is too good for them.

As for asking for help, I'll be asking for a great deal of that since I have now found a place where I can trust what is said to me. I don't want to put down the lady I directly bought them from, she has such a huge heart and she got in over her head trying to rescue everything that she thought needed her and her health was really bad. She's one of those people with a heart the size of Texas and she never asked anything, they needed her, she took them in.. that's why she didn't directly know much about them. She only sold them to me I think as her health was deteriorating and she had to let some of them go. I did a search and found the original owners and that's where the trouble started. That lady is something else.. Tori and Sky are both registered.. but I honestly think she got Tori's color wrong on the papers, and I am not sure if that will create an issue later or not. BUT, I am not even into it for the shows, the papers, nothing, I wanted them as my pets and part of my family. She put Tori down as a Grulla, and from everything I have read, she isn't a Grulla.... but oh well. She's here to stay, if she was green with blue spots she's here and part of the family. lol

My only concern this instant, as I think about it. If I put Banner in a separate pen by himself, is this going to be an issue? The pens will be connected, but a fence will be between them. Will this be enough for him until I get him gelded or am I about to create more problems for myself trying to pen him off from them?