Hardshipping in ponies til 5 years of age into AMHR

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok I have mixed feelings about this proposal. They want the hardship of ponies to be past their fifth birthday into AMHR. I looked in the rulebook and the shetlands don't get pernament cards until they turn 6. Now I was just wondering is there a reason for that and shetlands continue to grow past 3 years of age?

 

[Karen S]

Posted Today, 09:25 AM from the Miniature Board:

Hi Jamie,

Shetlands papers are already permanent unlike the miniatures who are issued temporary papers until their actual (3) third birthday then they can obtain their permanent registration papers and measurement card. Shetlands obtain their permanent MEASUREMENT card at the age of six.

Right now I have a seven year old ASPC gelding that has been shown at Congress only by his prior owner. Congress doesn't count in regards to getting a permanent measurement card, just like mini nationals doesn't count. I will have to take him to the Halloween Spooktacular show, have him measured and then the Steward will send in for his permanent height card. I should get it by the end of the year.

I don't have a problem with the miniatures having permanent papers at the age of three, but maybe they need to not be issued a permanent MEASUREMENT card until 5 years of age. Yes, I have seen those that have continued to grow till age of five.

Again, this is a proposal that you need to look heavily into. If you don't like it, then at the AMHR meeting you can let it die for a lack of a second motion.

I will also caution everyone that if a proposal needs a consequence and doesn't have one, you need to vote it down or let it die for a lack of a second. This will allow it to go back to the original author to be re-worked and brought back next year. Right now our rulebook is full of rules that can't be enforced for lack of consequences. If a rule talks about a penalty and you don't see a penalty, then tell me how it's going to be enforced? Please take the time to print off the 2009 supplement and the 2010 supplement from the ASPC/AMHR website, sit down with those supplements and your rulebook (again if you don't have a rulebook, print one off)mark each proposal as to where it's located in the rulebook. If a particular rule doesn't pertain to you, then don't vote on it. I would much rather you sustain from voting than vote on a rule that pertains to a division that you know nothing about.

In regards to a committee asking you not to vote...yes as a paid member with the ASPC/AMHR you have the right to vote in any committee meeting for any proposal that is before you. But if you don't own lets say a Show Pony, don't ever plan on owning a Show Pony, then why would you vote on something that doesn't pertain to you? I have sat in on the Modern and Modern Pleasure committee meetings in the past and listen to the proposals that affect that division. I even discuss those proposals with a fellow member who does show and promote those types of ponies. It’s not fair to those members who do raise, show and promote them for someone like me who didn’t to vote on issues that I knew nothing about and I would certainly hope those members would extend the same courtesy to those that do.

This year will be a different story as I do own a Modern & Show pony and will partake in the voting process this year. I don't feel it's anything against any member to be asked to refrain from voting if you don't know anything about the division in which the proposal is pertaining too. That's just my opinion. I have been attending the ASPC/AMHR conventions since 1998, haven't missed a one since that time and I have witnessed lots and lots of changes these past twelve years, some good and some not so good and have learned a lot by sitting in those meetings.

Thanks.

Karen

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Posted by Lisa from the Miniature Board:

Posted Today, 09:42 AM

Karen I agree with you somewhat on the voting however here is an example...

I own a Mod Pleasure and Classics so what happens in some proposals in Modern division does effect me even though I may never have a Modern but different rules can effect what horses move up or drop down into the MP and even the Classic division so it "could" effect more then just those that own that particular division

I agree with Karen it is a great way to really learn alot and to see your directors in action.

Lisa

Ruff N Tuff Miniature Horses

Nampa ID

Ruff N Tuff Minis and Shetlands

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Lisa,

I bought a Modern and Show Pony this year and have promoted that pony this year so those proposals DO affect me from here on out. You are in the same boat as I am with your Modern Pleasure pony, if and when you do decide to show it. You have the right to vote on those proposals even if you really don't understand them. Please learn all you can from these and look them over very very carefully for when you do decide to show your pony you will be on the same page with the rest of your competitors.

In regards to the Modern division and Modern Pleasure division, I do think you will finally see some divisions within the two in a future rulebook. The Modern Pleasure committee is trying to clean up that part of the rulebook so you can see a definite division of the wording and rules. I have talked with a couple of people who are on that committee and do agree that it needed to be done. Maybe, just maybe we can have rules pertaining to the Moderns in a section for them, the Modern Pleasure, Classic, Foundation and Show Pony. That's why you need to research, study, ask questions etc. Just because you own a certain type of pony you still need to educate yourself regarding the rules of the division in which you plan on showing that pony in. It’s about time we do have a clear division of the rules so that there won’t be any confusion as to how they are to be shown. Right now as it stands there’s a lot of confusion regarding what is allowed as a Modern and Modern Pleasure. Just look at the shoeing rules and that in itself will be a eye opener! The Show Pony is at least pretty clear and hopefully will continue to outline their rules in a concise manner. Just because a Modern can cross over into the Show Pony, and a Show Pony into the Modern, there are some distinct differences in what is allowed and a bunch of grey areas that need to be cleaned up. We had a couple here in our area last year competing in the Modern Pleasure that was DQ over the shoeing rules. Part was in the Modern and part was in the Modern Pleasure.

I do applaud the MP committee for trying to clean it up so that new folks will know what to do. That division is catching on very nicely in several parts of the US and I would hate to see it dwindle over misunderstandings in the rules.

Karen

 

[~Lisa~]

Thanks Karen

I to have many friends-mentors who show/breed quite successfully in those divisions and have over the years educated myself as best I can to the proposals - rules- and show requirements.

ASPR rules are pretty clear however opening up that registry to not just Hackney and Hackney bred ponies but also allowing any Foundation- Classic pony of any breeding to register as a show pony is something I am still a year later trying to wrap my head around. I still have plenty of questions on that divison and hope to have a better grasp of it all this year.

I would never vote on issues like training aids. I do not use them simply becouse I am not educated enough to use them. I can read about them, watch videos on the use and I still do not feel comfortable without someone physically here showing me the correct way to do things. Or more importantly to be able to quickly see when things might be going wrong

I dont know that I would vote on every shoeing issue either I would have to speak to several different people to see how in the long run it would effect me. If I dont feel confident in my knowledge of that I surely will not vote.

Please do not think I have ever now or ever would go in to ANY committee meeting and haphazardly vote on issues I do not understand. I am fully aware of the fact that these rule changes can and have effected many - and a large portion of those do use this reigstry to make their living and support their families in one way or another. That is not something I EVER TAKE LIGHTLY!

Of course that does not mean I do not have tons to learn as an actual exhibitor/owner -You are very right reading the rule book and trying to understand it all does not in any way make a successful exhibitor and I totally and fully admit we are very new to the pony ring and have tons to learn in the actual doing in the classes. You are correct I have owned my MP gelding for almost a year and I did not show ASPC this year. With no shows in our immediate area- and sacraficing my show season so my daughter could have her show season makes it harder. However we do believe we have worked out both of our schedules so that I can be at 2011 Congress.

I am very glad I made the sacrafice- as a parent you know how wonderful it is to see your child succeed. Watching her get her National Championship- Res Championship and several top tens and knowing how hard she worked for them is surely worth me giving up a couple show seasons

You are right plenty needs to be clarified in our rule book that is something we all agree on year after year at Convention- in personal conversations with friends and on these boards and I am glad that people are still working towards that goal.

 

[~Lisa~]

JMS

sorry your topic got off topic LOL

As far as this proposal at this moment and time I think I would agree with this proposal however... that said there are times when you sit in a committe meeting-and without the personal insults and attacks that sometimes happen on the internet (which make everyone defensive and lose sight of the issue at hand) being able to listen to those who speak for and against and like I said being able to really be open and listen my mind has been changed before when I thought I was pretty set on something so I try very hard to go into Convention without a set idea on anything