He's not a mini - but GO BIG BROWN!!!

[SammyL]

[SIZE=10pt]Kind of off topic here...But I have questions for anyone who might know..[/SIZE]

Why do they race the horses while they are still growing? Doesn't that make for a better chance of injury?

And why are steriods legal for horses but not humans? Don't they do the same thing to a horse as too a human and isn't the objective the same?

I love the big TB's...and watch the races every once in a while...but not really a big fan, so I don't know too much about the subject..

 

[Fanch]

I can't find any articles on updated stautus of Big Brown, does anyone know how hes doing?? Was there something medically wrong with him??

 

[Magic]

There's nothing that anyone (all the vets etc) has found so far, so there is likely not going to be any medical reason why he didn't run well in the Belmont.

 

[kaykay]

Well my opinion is that its his hooves or lack of hooves. Have you guys seen pics of his hooves?? omg now that is just heartbreaking!!

Heres one pic but i cant find the link to the pictures of both front hooves which are pretty much gone and filled with epoxy or whatever they use

big brown hoof

 

[Alex]

Well my opinion is that its his hooves or lack of hooves. Have you guys seen pics of his hooves?? omg now that is just heartbreaking!!

Heres one pic but i cant find the link to the pictures of both front hooves which are pretty much gone and filled with epoxy or whatever they use

big brown hoof

What people do to try and win...

 

[kaykay]

yeah i guess the saying no hoof no horse doesnt apply in race horses as they just make a hoof. Cant wait to see the foals he throws with crumbling hooves

 

[muffntuf]

There was rumor that they pulled his 'Gatorade' / Electorlytes a couple days before the race and put him on lasix. If they did that, he wouldn't be the same, he would have been without water and off kilter.

I dont' think it was the quarter crack on his hoof. I would rather think it was no electrolytes - he didn't sweat much and they were hosing the other horses off.

 

[dreaminmini]

I think it is a real shame that we didn't see a Triple Crown winner this year. Big Brown is a real talented horse but I feel with all the physical problems he was having that he just couldn't come up with the goods. Not to take anything away from him. Also for interest sake the horse that won the Belmont, it's sire was Tiznow, who won the Breeder's Cup Classic 2 years in a row....and boy did that horse have heart. They second year he won he looked beat twice but still seemed to find more.

As someone else mentioned on the board about Big Brown throwing a crumbling hoof problem on to the offspring it is something to be considered. But I do feel the breeding of these thoroughbred are getting way off base and too much inbreeding and everyone seeming to breed for the finer boned speed horses they aren't as sturdy as their predessors.

Another interesting point to mention is that in Australian racing it is not uncommon to have horses running upwards of 10 and 13, they are not allowed Lasix, or any performance enhancing drugs, they race until they are out of form and then are given a layoff and when they are brought back months later they are fit and frequently win on their first race back. There are far fewer breakdowns, I would hazard to say they look far fitter and the races are far more competitive. Watch Friday night races there (their Saturday races) and you will not believe the talent pool. If you want to see a great horse watch Makybe Diva's back to back Melbourne Cup wins (2 miles) against international fields and against the boys! She has also won at many different distances including sprint races.

 

[Lisa]

I didn't keep up much this year...but, I did read an article on yahoo that said one of the owners is blaming the jocky.

I missed the race...so, I really don't know anything. Just thougth I would post what I read

As far as I know (could be wrong, they could have changed their minds) it is not the owners, but the trainer who is blaming Kent.

 

[Indian*R*A*I*N*Dance]

It could have the heat. It was 93 when they ran the race but the jockey did the right thing, slowing him down when he knew something was wrong.

 

[tagalong]

Heres one pic but i cant find the link to the pictures of both front hooves which are pretty much gone and filled with epoxy or whatever they use

kaykay - those patches are not there instead of hoof wall - they are over the hoof wall for strengthening and treatment - Big Brown has always had dry. brittle hooves.... and they use the patches to help treat that. The patch is NOT there instead of the hoof wall. Far from it.

I personally feel it was the heat.

I am thinking this as well... maybe - like Funny Cide before him - he does not like the heat and humidity. It was in the 90s with extremely high humidity - which was why the grooms were so quick to wet down the horses after each race - and even use ice bags...

From The Blood Horse...

According to all reports, the quarter crack that had plagued the colt two weeks earlier was not the reason for his performance, nor was any other physical ailment. On the morning after the race, the colt seemed comfortable as he picked at his bedding, his back to the door, oblivious to all the emotional conflicts he had caused. Was it the stifling heat, the deep track, missing several training days, being rank early, the restraint by Desormeaux, the traffic and bumping early in the race, acting up in the holding barn, all of the above, none of the above? We’ll probably never find out for sure.

The only criticism I have seen anywhere so far about Desormeaux's ride was that some felt he should have ridden Big Brown to the finish instead of fighting to ease him up in the stretch. I think Kent did the right thing - without knowing for sure why he had no horse left - and yet knowing that he had not had a breakdwon and was not lame... the safest thing - and best thing to do for the horse - was to ease him up.

I actually liked Da'Tara in the paddock... he was on his toes, on the muscle - without being too worked up. He looked like a horse who was geared up to run the race of his life. If I had been there - I would have made him my longshot bet.

ETA:

I found the article about Rick Dutrow the trainer - who has had many problems in the past with shooting his mouth off - blaming Desormeaux...

NEW YORK (AP)—Trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. still blames Kent Desormeaux for Big Brown’s stunning last-place finish in the Belmont Stakes, but he wouldn’t object to the jockey riding the horse in his next race.
The decision of whether to change jockeys is up to co-owner Michael Iavarone, Dutrow said.

“I don’t want to hurt anyone, especially Kent,” Dutrow told The Associated Press on Tuesday morning in his barn at Aqueduct. “But I still don’t understand what happened. I don’t see the horse with a problem, so I have to direct my attention toward the ride. That’s all I can come up with.”

With Big Brown trying to become the first Triple Crown champion in 30 years after dominant wins in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Desormeaux eased up the unbeaten colt with a quarter-mile remaining in the Belmont on Saturday.

“I had no horse. He was empty,” Desormeaux said after the race.

Dutrow insisted Tuesday he had found nothing wrong with Big Brown.

“Maybe next week if something starts going wrong with the horse, then I’ll understand everything,” he said.

Dutrow added: “As long as the horse stays the way that I see him right now, then things are just going to keep building up for me to know that it was the ride that did him in.”

He said he hadn’t spoken to Desormeaux, but “if he calls me I’ll talk to him, sure.”

Bolding mine. Yo, Rick. It's racing luck. Not all horses can give it 100% all the time. Even Secretariat was beatem. 3 times.

Blame the weather if you like. Blame your training. Blame your big mouth and abrasive attitude that has gotten you in trouble in the past.

But blaming the jockey - who would know that the Preakness Big Brown who won so easily was not there... and subtley hinting that he did not know what he was talking about? Or was perhaps lying? If Big Brown had been the same horse he was at Pimlico - you know Desormeaux would have come off that last turn on the outside and swept past the others...

So instead of thanking him for taking care of Big Brown and trying to ease him up in case something was wrong... you assign blame to him?

Wow.

 

[user 488]

Heres one pic but i cant find the link to the pictures of both front hooves which are pretty much gone and filled with epoxy or whatever they use

kaykay - those patches are not there instead of hoof wall - they are over the hoof wall for strengthening and treatment - Big Brown has always had dry. brittle hooves.... and they use the patches to help treat that. The patch is NOT there instead of the hoof wall. Far from it.

So instead of thanking him for taking care of Big Brown and trying to ease him up in case something was wrong... you assign blame to him?

Wow.

Agreed!

First of all epoxy is widely used to fill in old nail holes, cracks, etc. and it HELPS the hoof stay strong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using epoxy. It not only strengthens but it also makes for a much nicer appearance. I could not imagine not having some sort of epoxy on a show horses foot foot for just the aesthetic value alone! Who would want old nail holes on a show foot? Those pictures of BB's feet look great......good blacksmith. As far as the comment that people do anything to win because they used epoxy on a horses feet? Well, I guess if you have ever been around large horses being shod you would know it's not a bad thing at all.

Just like Tag said........the horse lost. It was not his day. This is no different than anything else in showing, racing or whatever. You come out of the ring without a ribbon........it just wasn't your day. The people that have to hash and rehash why they didn't pin are obviously newbies. Big Brown didn't cross the Finish Line first? Wasn't his day, wasn't his time............end of story. Sure it was kind of sad......but it's over. On to the next quest for a Triple Crown winner.

 

[kaykay]

You guys are focusing on the epoxy and what I am focusing on is it has been known ever since he started racing that his hooves are no good. If you google you will find numerous stories about all the problems with his front hooves. My point is why on earth would anyone keep racing a horse with front hooves like that!! I dont know if its heriditary but I wouldnt want to take the chance!

 

[Matt73]

He looked a bit off to me -lame-: head up, and "sticking" ie. not wanting to move forward. A competive horse like that would not have been that affected by the heat. Didn't he come in last?

 

[tagalong]

You guys are focusing on the epoxy and what I am focusing on is it has been known ever since he started racing that his hooves are no good. If you google you will find numerous stories about all the problems with his front hooves.

Well, if you googled than you should also have read that as his feet tended to be thin-walled etc. - he had excellent - and I do mean excellent- farriers working on him. They worked on those problems and fixed them - the same as would happen for many less celebrity horses out there. The quarter crack that everyone in the media - even the horse people who knew better - was freaking about would not have bothered him once treated and a couple of days off.

No foot no horse - do you really think that if chunks of his hoof wall were missing - as you said earlier - that he could move so effortlessly and easily? And before you ask - any drugs that would mask that would show up - and he would not move so freely anyway. Hooves are like hair and nails in people - some have them dry and brittle and thinner - some have them thick and smooth.... but suggesting that hoof wall was missing and the epoxy mix was there instead is nowhere near the truth.

Very few horses out there have the perfect feet with the thick walls that farriers are delighted to see...

He looked a bit off to me -lame-: head up, and "sticking" ie. not wanting to move forward. A competive horse like that would not have been that affected by the heat. Didn't he come in last?

During the race lame? No... he was fighting the jockey, fretting about needing to be held off the heels of the horses in front of him and save his strength... that was why his head was tossing. He had never been hard to rate before... and had always raced relaxed and easy until he was asked for speed. This time - he wanted to grab the bit and GO!

Matt - any competitive horse can be affected by the heat. Funny Cide won the Derby and the Preakness a few years ago... third in the Belmont. As he went on in his career he grew to hate the heat and humidity - and never did well in races he ran in that kind of weather. Eventually they scratched him from them in advance if the weather turned hot and sultry. And he is far from the only one.

Are all human athletes equally capable of handling heat and humidity? No. The same goes for horses.

Yes - he came in last.... eased up (although he did not want to be and resisted that - thus more head tossing etc.) by the jockey...

And as he was gone over from stem to stern by the vets and showed no lameness - nothing.... as Vertical Limit said - it may have simply not been his day.

Even Man O War lost... once... to Upset.

 

[kaykay]

tag im not going to get in a big debate with you. Its my opinion and Im entitled to it just like you are entitled to yours.

If I had horse with hoof walls that thin no I would not race it or do any kind of performance. Im not talking about just the crack. It was known before that there were problems with his front hooves.

All I was saying is that in my opinion the hoof problems finally caught up with him. Just my opinion!

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

Did anyone else see the special on TV about Big Brown's jockey's son? The poor kid is around 9 years old and was deaf and had to have special implants for his ears to hear. Now he is going blind. His parents said they wanted him to see Big Brown win, while he could still see.

 

[Matt73]

You guys are focusing on the epoxy and what I am focusing on is it has been known ever since he started racing that his hooves are no good. If you google you will find numerous stories about all the problems with his front hooves.

Well, if you googled than you should also have read that as his feet tended to be thin-walled etc. - he had excellent - and I do mean excellent- farriers working on him. They worked on those problems and fixed them - the same as would happen for many less celebrity horses out there. The quarter crack that everyone in the media - even the horse people who knew better - was freaking about would not have bothered him once treated and a couple of days off.

No foot no horse - do you really think that if chunks of his hoof wall were missing - as you said earlier - that he could move so effortlessly and easily? And before you ask - any drugs that would mask that would show up - and he would not move so freely anyway. Hooves are like hair and nails in people - some have them dry and brittle and thinner - some have them thick and smooth.... but suggesting that hoof wall was missing and the epoxy mix was there instead is nowhere near the truth.

Very few horses out there have the perfect feet with the thick walls that farriers are delighted to see...

He looked a bit off to me -lame-: head up, and "sticking" ie. not wanting to move forward. A competive horse like that would not have been that affected by the heat. Didn't he come in last?

During the race lame? No... he was fighting the jockey, fretting about needing to be held off the heels of the horses in front of him and save his strength... that was why his head was tossing. He had never been hard to rate before... and had always raced relaxed and easy until he was asked for speed. This time - he wanted to grab the bit and GO!

Matt - any competitive horse can be affected by the heat. Funny Cide won the Derby and the Preakness a few years ago... third in the Belmont. As he went on in his career he grew to hate the heat and humidity - and never did well in races he ran in that kind of weather. Eventually they scratched him from them in advance if the weather turned hot and sultry. And he is far from the only one.

Are all human athletes equally capable of handling heat and humidity? No. The same goes for horses.

Yes - he came in last.... eased up (although he did not want to be and resisted that - thus more head tossing etc.) by the jockey...

And as he was gone over from stem to stern by the vets and showed no lameness - nothing.... as Vertical Limit said - it may have simply not been his day.

Even Man O War lost... once... to Upset.

No comment

 

[tagalong]

Heee - Matt, you did a lot of quoting just to say No Comment.

If I had horse with hoof walls that thin no I would not race it or do any kind of performance. Im not talking about just the crack. It was known before that there were problems with his front hooves.

kaykay - I think you may be misunderstanding the "thin walls" aspect of this. Or what problems there were. He had had abcesses... and had to recuperate. Which he did. Quarter cracks. Many horses run with quarter cracks all their careers and they are never an issue of any kind. Big Brown's latest one was very very slight - as per the vet and the farrier. Could he have better feet? Of course. Was he raced in pain? No. He demonstrated that very capably.

My first horse was a Thoroughbred off the track... forced to retire at age 11. He had "thin walls". With proper shoeing and trimming he never had a issue with them - obviously I guess - as he raced for 8 years.

And to quote his trainer - never took a bad step.

We'll see if Big Brown develops a late bruise or abscess that shows up... something horses with no fuss feet can also have happen. But he vetted out sound... no heat, no swelling, no lameness, no nothing.

I get frustrated about this - as I have worked at the track. People on the backstretch devote their lives to the horses. It is not just a job - it is their life. Watching the media put such a spin on things during the Belmont telecast annoyed the heck outta me... you would have thought that slight quarter crack tht was treated correctly was the size of the Grand Canyon.

Not his day. I was soooo disappointed... maybe next year.

To my point - Is steroid use legal in horse racing?

Lisa - 4 types of anabolic steroids are permitted in 28 states. Some of those states have rules that steroids cannot be administered less than 30 days prior to a race. They are not used across the board for every horse. They can build muscle mass - not something you necessarily want in some horses. They can improve the appetite of poor keepers and help protect against wear and tear. A common practice is to give them to a horse coming off a long layoff - as steroids can have a rejuvenating effect.

HOWEVER the Jockey Club has "recommended" (so read, all states will fall in line and do so) that all steroid use stop in 2009. It's about time.

In Europe and elsewhere - no steroids are allowed. No Lasix. No Bute - or any other therapeutic drugs. That only goes on in North America.

NOW - having said all that ^^^^ - I have never cared for Rick Dutrow - Big Brown's trainer. And not just for his big mouth. He has had numerous suspensions in the past for analgesic use... and because of that a high profile horse like Big Brown who is under his care will have been scrutinized and tested very thoroughly.