Hips and Hyperbikes

[paintponylvr]

You mentioned not having a round pen.

It's not necessary for any training, to be honest.

For me/us - it's been a catch pen, a quarantine pen, a feed pen and a training focus. Again, I have a large number of ponies from young to old. I have, over the years, given many riding lessons to children as well as beginning adult riders. It's a smaller area for them to be in that allows them to concentrate on what they need to learn and develop both balance and control while riding while lowering fear. I did a lot of bareback/bridleless riding in my own (parents') roundpen while growing up to develop my own balance when I had no instructor handy.

In a driving/young pony/horse - it is a focus for training. Both for the driver and for the horse. It contains the horse - his reactions - and "improves" concentration. It contains the horse in a smaller area while a "newbie" driver gets the feel of driving - making it MUCH LESS frustrating for both! Trust me - it takes time to learn to handle lines when first ground driving and getting the horse NOT TO TURN and face you. A round pen (OR ANY SMALLER FENCED area) can HELP.

Just to get used to the lines - a 12x12 stall can be helpful.

A "round pen" for focus can be as simple as a few boards on the ground - marking the boundary of a circle. Sure - the horse can "escape" - but while in side the "ring" it gives you/her the ability to focus on doing some circles, x-ing the ring, practicing stops & reinbacks (backing up) etc.

**********

We haven't discussed a "rein-board" - which would give you the feel of your lines w/o confusing/upsetting the horse you are learning to drive...

 

[AngC]

Yup. I did indeed say "strap her in" in post #9. Sorry. I've been trying to back-pedal and bow out gracefully for a couple posts now.

And I have read on this forum some (but obviously not enough) however, I don't think there's anything wrong with reading a book to try and get an overview to learn where I'm going. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in my book recommendation request. I've never bought a used (out-of-print) book off Amazon. I really don't want to. We (husband and I) have had our charge card info compromised 3 times in the last 10 years; the worst was $2600 at Red Lobster (how in the heck?) Luckily we noticed quickly and we have a good financial institution. But, I'm rather particular where I shop anymore. So I'm not too keen on doing business with the "smaller" niche sellers. (I've made an exception since we owned our horsies twice; 1 was the nibble net for the girls, the other was the pack saddle for Baby.)

And I guess the reason I started this thread is because driving is something I'd like to try but I'm afraid to do so. So I thought if I talked/typed about it I would feel encouraged. Anyway, I understand that I was frustrating and I apologize. But the good news is that I did get something out of this.....

The 2 lunge lines seemed like a nice idea. So I tried it. I had to have the husband put a bigger ring on Baby's halter because our lunge lines have massive snap-hook-thingies (warning ...that was an incorrect term.) She toodled along with me behind, and I think she did ok. I don't know, maybe she didn't. I have no idea how long this should take.

Then curiosity got the better of me. I have this Radio Flyer wagon that I used to use for gardening.

I put Baby's pack saddle/harness on. I tied some easily-breakable twine at her shoulder level onto whatever that harness thing is called and ran it back to the little handle on the wagon. Then I had the husband stand by her head (in case things went wrong) and I was behind the whole mess with the 2 lunge lines. I don't guess this idea falls into the best practices category, but I told her to Walk and she walked. ...no spooking--despite the jury-rigged wagon rattling along behind her. About the only problem we had was that she kept trying to turn around to see what was in the wagon (might be food, you know.)

I know that was probably not the most intelligent thing to do. But I don't know if that is something other people could do with their horse on the first try. Apparently, it's probably not something I should even ask here. So thanks for the ideas. (I sure am proud of her, though.)

 

[paintponylvr]

here are some photos of 1 of our yearlings w/ our youngest daughter working with him. This is the 2nd day to be "harnessed" and ground driven. On the 3rd, Sierra did the same as you - she put a little wash basket that I'd filled w/ weeds (pulling by hand rather than using herbicide) behind him and attached it to the traces/breast collar she'd put on him that day (no pics of that). After I calmed down, I realized he was one that was fine with that.

Here is my girl friend ground driving him as a coming 2 yr old. Still no bridle at this point. Even at this age and w/ our own "green" training - he has nice form and response. The bottom pic shows him working in a circle around Vicki.

A year later, though, he DID freak out when hitched in a sulky cart. I stepped out before he came unglued and he basically destroyed it! Broke the harness in two places AND was months before he could safely be hitched by himself - think he always remembers when he'd been hooked to the sulky - still not really sure what we did or what caused him to have a problem - but he's not usually ever driven by himself, so my girlfriend (who now owns him) doesn't care. And he's AWESOME as a pair... He can/does fine with pulling logs by himself.

We think it was going thru the leaves. But still don't know... It might have been the way that the shafts "bumped" and "contained" him - we went back and did A TON of work with him and he did plenty of kicking and bucking while pulling shafts thru the leaves...

Here's a pic of him before he came unglued -

 

[paintponylvr]

Continued work -

and with two "shafts"

Before the day/month that he came unglued, he'd started working as a pair his new owners' (vicki) mare. Here was their first hitch to our heavy farm wagon (really too big for the shetlands BUT worked really nice for training)... Maybe he was upset that they weren't together? Neither pony is wearing blinders in the photo below - but are wearing the "open" headstalls I braided from haystring.

I think this was one of the first works with blinder bridles on... Taken the same week that he was doing shaft work as a single w/ the pvc poles after breaking the cart and harness (single).

and this was taken 2 yrs later in the fall of 2013. I have no idea when Kreature was last driven single...

 

[paintponylvr]

At the time Kreature came unglued while hitched, he'd been driving for 3 months as a single driving pony with pleasure harness to an ez entry cart. He'd been getting driven several times a week. The day he came unglued was his first hitch to my sulky cart and it's possible that it was a combination of the noise it didn't make in the leaves, w/ the leaves crunching and then the way it was on him (the shafts are too long - I've always used it anyway - adjusting the lengths of the traces to have the pony in the right place...

Who knows??

Out of the 25 horses and ponies we've started in harness, only 4 were able to be hitched to an object w/i a couple of times of ground driving. In all cases, we went back later and did more ground work with each pony (Kreature after the wreck, Bell and KoKo just 'cuz. Blizzard, after just a couple of hitches, went on to become a riding pony only as he outgrew the harness and cart we had at the time)... A couple have never become ez drivers that were quiet - instead staying tense and upset from the time the harness was put on them until it was removed.

I DO own one mare that gets completely upset if she is hitched to the ez entry cart. It's noisy. The sulky cart is not. She'll work all day pulling farm equipment single or w/ a partner or two or pulling the sulky cart. Hitching her to the ez entry - you see an immediate change in her personality!! Maybe bad - but I changed carts in a hurry - I simply didn't want another wreck.

the rest? Hitching them to an object that soon could have been very bad.

 

[paintponylvr]

As to the other - I don't think I'd survive w/o catalog and online shopping at this point! LOL. I grew up w/ my family regularly ordering from Sears, Wards & JC Penney's. During the 13 months I spent in Korea - I had products sent to me from a variety of mail order catalogs - Spiegels was one of the first (yea, when I was younger and THIN...LOL). I haven't had the issues you've had w/ on line stuff from Amazon BUT we have w/ ours right in our own state utility bills!! So I completely understand (OMG - $2600 @ Red Lobster??).

Hmm, I've kept saying I would do a book list and seem to never get around to it. Right now, my books are packed so I wouldn't have an accurate listing since I'd probably forget to lay out several.

I just realized that a couple I suggested are "sold out" right now. Not sure if they will be reprinted or what is going on

. I know that I went to the Dixie Draft Horse Sale last Fri/Sat and 2 of the Vendors had more than one copy of each of the books I'd recommended... I've always been able to get current prints of the books I've suggested BUT I usually DON"T get books thru Amazon or eBay. I get them thru either catalogs, on-line websites or in person at some of the events I've gone to. A few have been carried by tack stores as well.

I have ordered or made almost all of our mini/shetland equipment since I got back into the small equine in 1995. None of the tack stores I go to carry equipment small enough for Shetlands or minis.. Again, I wouldn't have "survived" without catalog or on-line ordering. I think I've ordered from 10 different mini catalogs/websites - with a favored 3 or 4 that I always go back to.

I regularly order items from Valley Vet, Dover Saddlery, Schneider Tack, Stateline Tack, Jeffers Equine (and Pet), Smith & Fosters (dog/cat stuff), KV Vet, Allivet, Heartland Vet Supply, United Vet Equine since 1997. I usually look up products on line and then call them to do my orders & pay over the phone w/ my "card". I get special emails from a lot of these and will purchase items in bulk (Ivermectin paste wormer @ $1.99/tube, BOGO clipper blades etc) when I get those email coupons. Had coupons one year for name brand horse blankets (in horse sizes) - got them for almost $200/less per blanket and gave them to a friend as her Xmas gift for her new horse who was in desperate need of a couple of blankets. It was AWESOME...

As to getting books - do you have a book store around you anywhere? Barnes & Noble or Books a Million are the two big chains I'm aware of. You can take info on a book into them and have them order it for you - they deal with the shipping/loss and you can pay in cash when it arrives. I don't know if other book stores can/will do this or not.

 

[AngC]

...Hitching them to an object that soon could have been very bad.

Point taken. And I agree; but I was being "egged on" by the husband. I've spent too much time with Baby to do something stupid that would make her "spooky."

I haven't had time to read through this all thoroughly. (heck, who needs a book? I'll just read your posts

) I had looked at the photos at your photo-hosting site (there were a couple pics in there that were invaluable to me; perhaps someday I'll tell you about that) but the ones in post #23 here were great because it showed me how you do the two lunge lines (or whatever you call them.) I didn't know how/where to attach them so I winged it.

I do apologize again (and I mean that) because if I'm going to communicate with people I should at least learn the terminology before I pester people with questions.

There's a couple questions I'm dying to ask about gear in your photos, but I will not until I educate myself further. For now, I'm perfectly happy just doing a little bit every day. Baby is going to take however long she wants; and you've given me a few more ideas.

...no more wagon hook-ups!

 

[paintponylvr]

Hopefully chix have enuf feed/water as I'm nursing a massive headache sitting here, before going to work... I'll try answering some ?s before you ask.

If you are wondering about the "orange" gear - it's "custom made". I had much fewer ponies in 2009 and NO MONEY for a while. I had LOTS of haystring - the type wrapped in continuous piece around the round bales we were buying. I've always made my gear - off and on thru the years. I remembered a book (s) about making tack and I hunted for it (was heavily advertised in Western Horseman magazine in 70s - went out for a while and then was reprinted and brought back). I ordered it - and it wasn't that different from braiding I was doing already. So I washed (rinsed in feed buckets w/ Dawn dis soap, then hosed off and hung it on fence or spread on ground to dry) the haystring, rolled it in large bundles (while ponies eating and I waited to turn them loose) as shown in the book. Then commenced to braiding. Once I mastered the techniques, I made calls to find out measurements on custom harness for my size ponies (what I measured-where on my ponies and the lengths of straps between) then calculated and started braiding.

Here's what I came up with... I wasn't working full time, drove only 10 minutes to get thier and had TIME plus mastered braiding while watching tv at nite - the winter of 2009 and thru the summer of 2010, I did A LOT of braiding - completing a crupper I used on eng saddle for riding, 2 complete pleasure driving harness (not the saddle), lots of headstalls (I've lost count of how many I currently have - think a couple are missing, 2), balancing side reins for myself and a couple sets for others, lots of collars to tie ponies up at feeding time, 4 lounge lines that became two sets of driving lines (don't have any more - our 2013 babies thought they tasted good when I left them hanging up where I could use them but they also good "taste" them - they are now in bits holding the 27 feed buckets up at feed stations now). Are they perfect - NO. BUT they sure do WORK!

This pic shows the breast collar/neck strap, a set of reins (I was giving riding lessons at the time to 6 children - the reins/knots worked to show where their hands needed to be when doing turns, stops and reinbacks).

Here is the breeching. I didn't make it adjustable enough - had to go back and sew it up to make it shorter over the hips on both sides. Yes the buckles are different - if hardware isn't tarnished/falling apart when other equipment is, I keep it. These are re-purposed... The black straps are braiding rubber bands holding the ends down/still (hadn't mastered the braiding the loops to hold them down - still haven't to this day with haystring which is slippery in such a small configuration. Can w/ paracord). The strap going under her belly is actually a hold back strap for a single cart. I'm using it here to "mimic" a quarter strap like would be used on a work harness to see how she'll do with it and to take measurements. Found out later - didn't need it when using breast collar harness - you need other "brakes"...

Here is one of the 1st headstalls. Vicki had different hay supplier(s) and had different colored haystring that I was able to use for the browband and curb strap. I like curb straps on all my bridles - now make them with buckles so they can be removed. I loved the snap/ring at the throat latch area - but what a PIA! They are braided in and those little snaps BREAK easily. They are not replaceable w/o destroying the whole headstall

buckles on the curb strap, conway buckles on each side of the cheek strap. This is one that I made for Vicki's pony, Eclipse, who is modeling it here.

I just realized I have no pics of the headstalls now made w/ buckles at the bit like a "real" driving headstall. Hmmm... don't know where they are still packed yet.

I have not mastered making a "saddle" for pleasure driving. I've used just a surcingle (Weaver, felt lined - ordered for me by our feed store, $30. Now carried by several mini catalogs/stores in both mini and Shetland sizes. If girths are too small, a dressage girth will work). I did make a girth from braiding (that was WORK - but it turned out nice and still works while the surcingle girth wore out). I've got a harness shop now that makes affordable beta "saddles" that work well and were only $35 - new catalog is in my truck and I haven't looked up 2015 prices (basic harness went up - sure saddle did too)...

When I first posted these braided pics here - I got both sides of the idea. Either "that's awesome" or "OMG - that's terrible and unsafe". Got several PMs stating how wrong/bad/unsafe using my braided haystring harness was... For US - both Vicki and I, it worked. I'm still using my two braided haystring "harness's" today - 6 yrs later - for training our babies and getting them to hitching point! I don't care if the harness gets beat up (actually it's lasted longer than any other harness I've owned yet!) and can just be washed and hung up. When I showed up at my 1st driving lesson w/ draft horse instructor - he thought I was crazy and TRUST ME - he let me know... BUT at the time - I didn't know if I wanted to drive, didn't know if my ponies would do well driving and simply didn't have $1000 OR MORE to "throw away" if driving didn't work for us (I did have the goal of driving and also of purchasing both good quality pleasure harness AND work harness)... That same trainer laughs now and says how wonderful my harness has worked. The harness makers in OH have told me that if I will make it out of paracord - they'll sell it. I don't have time to do that right now AND really - it would be cost prohibitive to most if I charge for the actual time it takes to make. I haven't had time to rebraid collars that need replacing on individual ponies right now...

The FIRST "harness" made for my Shetlands in 1997 was made by a Saddlebred/Arab trainer. He told me to get him a pony sized girth. He did the rest - he used the pony girth to make the breast collar. Attached the crown of an old halter (he re-purposed, too!) as the neck strap, sanded down a section of the rings so that a flat type snap could be attached and made traces out of military nylon strapping. Saddlebreds/Arabs dont use breeching on their jog/show carts, so I didn't know about breeching until later when I purchased the book by Doris Ganton (Breaking and Training the Driving Horse)... I purchased a leather breeching that fits most of my ponies from A Silver Penny - (google her)... Will get pics later. Have to go.

Yea, I write books...

 

[AngC]

ok I looked on the internet to see what the various harness parts are called. It appears that everyone calls them different names/terms.

The item that caught my eye in your photos was the strap with metal loops, which may or may not be called a bellyband, backband, girth... I found more; those seem to be some of the common terms. My pack saddle harness seems awfully similar to cart harnesses, with the exception that it has double cinches (one behind the forelegs and one a bit further back on her belly.) The only problem with it, is that there is nowhere to attach the two longlines as you recommended. We've been doing pretty good with the lunge lines and walking behind her, but they're hideously long and have really large/heavy swivel snaps. So the husband is going to cobble up two lines out of climbing rope. ...that way I can have them the length I want; the stuff is sturdy (afterall people dangle off cliffs on such lines.) I just have to figure out how I want him to make them to attach.

 

[Debby - LB]

For a easy to follow, simple, no nonsense guide - meant to be used as a how-to manual I really enjoyed this book! "Step-By-Step Guide to Training a Miniature Horse to Drive" by Mindy Schroder (revised second edition)
The book is well written (even I could understand it) and includes numerous very good photo descriptions. I would recommend this to anyone, most especially a beginner.

Here is Mindy's Website: http://billyblaze.wix.com/drivingbook You can click the cover of the book shown for excerpts.

 

[paintponylvr]

Thanx Debbie, you are the 2nd person to give me that. Before I didn't have the link to purchase it though...

AngC -

YES, different areas of the country OR different groups (draft, pleasure, CDE) have different terms - sometimes for the same harness parts but often the parts of each type of harness are different. That's why some of the books named are so awesome...

This is a work harness. The strap w/ rings under his belly 2 parts - 1st is a breast strap that hooks from collar & between his forelegs w/ the ring. 2nd - Snapped into that ring are the quarter straps (2) that are connected to the breeching rings on either side. This is the brake system for a pair harness. The neck yoke (attached at the front/bottom of the collar when hitched) is connected thru the "brakes" - and stops the wagon via tightening thru the breeching (the breeching ultimately stops the wagon/carriage). All the "belly parts" need to be attached in order to stop a wheeled vehicle w/ a pair. I had to have help (LOTS) to get that adjustment right on my pair w/ my new wagon - cuz all I was doing was ticking off and upsetting my ponies. One would "pass out" and lay down, then "explode" - or leap up... The whole arrangement was too tight - and it pulled her body all sorts of ways and cut off her air until someone pointed out what was wrong.

Yes, cinch and girth are somewhat interchangeable - but not always.

The training surcingle that I'm using in some of these pics DOES have rings - lots of them. For training. The mini/shet ones don't have as many as a full size one - but where they are make a difference as to where you run your lines. NO - a pack saddle wouldn't have those rings for driving lines - not meant to be used that way and rings would/could get in the way of "packing". An english saddle wouldn't either. But a western saddle has a couple of places that a snap and ring could be attached for driving lines OR you would run the lines thru the stirrups (which are "tied down")... The strap in front, behind the elbows is called a "girth" for just the part between the rings and the whole assembly can be referred to as a "cinch" or "cincha". the strap in back near the flanks is usually called a "rear cinch". I think it's the same terminology for packing as with western. The strap on an english saddle is called a "girth" (only) and has buckles under the saddle flaps, no "ties" or "latigo straps"...

MCR is AWESOME for use w/ horses. Schnieders Tack is the only horse catalog that I know that sells it as a made loungeline or lead rope already made up. Yes, most commercial loungelines made for full size horses, especially less expensive ones, will have larger snaps that don't work well w/ minis (heavy, bulky - some not well made and WILL BREAK). I used MCR equpipment for almost 12 years before washing, sweat and sunlight killed the rope. The snaps in each piece were replaced several times...

The reins on this bridle on the mare I'm riding are "home made" from MCR and in this pic are 11 yrs old... I STILL HAVE THEM.

Have to run. Work calls.

 

[paintponylvr]

Here's a link to a work harness w/ parts list -

work Harness parts list

Here's good reading on harnessing a single horse -

Good site w/ understandable pics of harness - different types Justin Carriage Works

Here's a link to a post here from 2013 detailing some harness. The 2 pics of the Fjord horse in two types of harness are great!

Harness Labeled parts

**********

Here are two pics of training surcingles for minis.



**************

Sooooo - do these answer your questions better?

 

[paintponylvr]

here is a pic with a training surcingle instead of "regular" harness... Yes, I'm using a braided headstall, long lines and breeching.

There's been some animated debate over the use of "shaft training" on this forum. Everyone uses, in the end, what works for them while training. I've done more of this work with a couple and almost none with others.

Here's some pics of our daughters riding using MCR reins that the girls and I made (i don't have a lot of pics...)...

Here's a pic of another pony with MCR reins - pic is big, so I didn't link it directly - Xena

 

[AngC]

oh perfect!! I was searching on all kinds of terms. I've never heard of "surcingle." I've abandoned the idea of a cart for this year. Baby can spend the summer doing groundwork. I really don't want to rush things and risk hurting her or me.

The surcingle looks like it will be easy to find one that fits. I've checked out a few of these and am deciding which one to order.

I looked at Schneider's Dura-Tech MCR lines. I think I'm going to pass on that. I tried researching what they're made of (material composition) and so far am drawing a blank. Additionally, they're the same l-o-n-g 30 ft. length that I currently have with my nylon/poly, flat long lines; plus it looks like they're rather thick in diameter. ....additionally, they have a snap/swivel which we've had one break on us.

I was thinking of a slimmer diameter on the (climbing) rope. In this application, I don't think I need the strength of a thicker diameter; even 3/8-inch of the right material is probably more sturdy than I need. Paired with a surcingle with all those loops/hoops, I was thinking I could have the husband make me a pair of "reins" to a comfortable length (vice 30 ft.) And I was thinking I could use carabiners to snap to the rings on the surcingle.

Regarding "shaft training"... As an outsider looking in: In addition to the belly-band with loops/hoops (surcingle), the next best thing I saw in your photos were the "shafts." ...looks like PVC pipe to me. I certainly wouldn't want to start any animated debate, but it looked like a pretty good idea to me. Plus it looked like something I could do. And I feel comfortable that Baby would be amenable to having a couple pipes dragging around; she's so sweet!!

Thank you.

 

[paintponylvr]

oh perfect!! I was searching on all kinds of terms. I've never heard of "surcingle." You will once you do get some of the books that have been mentioned. It is a training aid - so that you don't "injure" your "real" harness. I've abandoned the idea of a cart for this year.

but - Baby can spend the summer doing groundwork. I really don't want to rush things and risk hurting her or me.

The surcingle looks like it will be easy to find one that fits. I've checked out a few of these and am deciding which one to order. What are the differences in pricing that you've found? Mine have "weathered" well - but have lots of rust now on the rings and tarnish/oxidation on the buckles (part of that is the humidity in our barn/tack situation here in NC; part ... equipment? I purchased Weaver brand which is the 2nd one in the pic above).

I looked at Schneider's Dura-Tech MCR lines. I think I'm going to pass on that. I tried researching what they're made of (material composition) and so far am drawing a blank. Additionally, they're the same l-o-n-g 30 ft. length that I currently have with my nylon/poly, flat long lines; plus it looks like they're rather thick in diameter. ....additionally, they have a snap/swivel which we've had one break on us.

MCR simply stands for Mountain Climbing Rope. I believe (but could be very WRONG) that most is made the same(?)... WHERE did you find it available measured in inches? Usually sold diameter in metric measurements and I am "metric challenged". I can never remember what size I DID purchase - one of the reasons I was so upset when they either closed or moved the "Mountain Store" here years ago - since i can't remember the measurements I like (I held many sizes in mine and then my children's hands - the employees/mgr of the store thought I'd lost my gourd!). MCR is one thing I haven't gotten around to ordering on line - but may eventually. Love the feel and the lay. Think I used just under 1/2" (9 mm ??) - but really can't remember!!!

IF you make your own, you can make them any length. Here's a pic w/ my braided haystring harness with surcingle for a "saddle" (not really enough padding to properly carry the weight of the shafts so that you know). The green "lines" are MCR lines that I made. Think they were 20' long?

Lines on a mini harness for pleasure driving are about 12-14' if I remember right and that is too short for training purposes (literally plants you right at their butts - where you are when driving in the cart). Sorry pic below is BIG.. O, so that you know - Karen (woman in below pic) should be either sitting on those lines that are dropped between her legs or should have them coiled up and held in one of her hands. That extra "lines" are called the "bight" - just like when riding english and shouldn't be dangling down where they can get wrapped in a wheel. For extra long lines on trail drives, I have taken a rubber band or velcro strap and "figure-8d" the extra length and attached it to the front of the cart or wagon in front of me - easy to pull loose but won't get tangled up in drivers' feet or axle/wheels of the cart/wagon.

For ground driving, I prefer my lines to be about 20 - 25' long. I haven't had them 30' long recently. Vicki (my pony owning/driving "partner") DOES NOT like the lines she purchased that are 30' long - she gets all tangled up. I don't! In this pic, I am pulling the cart, Vicki is ground driving my pony w/ her beta lines that are 30'. The books recommended also state that that extra line (bight) should be coiled and held while ground training/driving (think pic on a ground driving book cover shows a good pic)...

Here, GG, has been quite silly and so we are spending lots of time w/ me being a "pony" and the "harness breaking" (letting go of the shafts and allowing them to bang on the ground). GG was quite unhappy w/ that and here is a pic of one of the many times she spooked while doing this. Some feel I was crazy and really didn't need this step - I'm glad we did it! Vicki's granddaughter took these photos of us.

I was thinking of a slimmer diameter on the (climbing) rope. In this application, I don't think I need the strength of a thicker diameter; even 3/8-inch of the right material is probably more sturdy than I need. Paired with a surcingle with all those loops/hoops, I was thinking I could have the husband make me a pair of "reins" to a comfortable length (vice 30 ft.) And I was thinking I could use carabiners to snap to the rings on the surcingle.

Regarding "shaft training"... As an outsider looking in: In addition to the belly-band with loops/hoops (surcingle), the next best thing I saw in your photos were the "shafts." ...looks like PVC pipe to me. YES, they are. Re-purposed, of course, so you DO have to check them to make sure they aren't cracking/splintering and become dangerous "weapons" at that point. I certainly wouldn't want to start any animated debate, but it looked like a pretty good idea to me.

Debate can be GOOD, plus it gives you many different ways to look at things. I do some things differently than some folks do. Others do things that just don't work for me. Mostly because they are too different from what I already know and are awkward for me to manage in the shape I'm in now (not 20, real flexible and 150 #s anymore!). ONe thing you don;t want to do when doing any type of "shaft training" is have them back up when the shafts are attached to your surcingle (covered in several of the books on training that have been mentioned in this post). WHY? Because they don't just "slide" back but instead dig into the ground - causing them to them put lots of pressure on your saddle/surcingle and possibly digging into your horse (possibly explosion! plus pain). Some have made "shafts" that mimic real shafts that curve up instead of just the ends laying on the ground - those will slide backwards. I will have to search for those photos. I have also made a shaft trainer that attaches to the sursingle and also has a hip carrier and curves around the rump in one single piece - more like "real" shafts. They don't drag on the ground. I had a big horse step on/break them when she got upset in the barn. When I "re-made" them, I made them too wide and so far haven't' taken the time to cut them down & re do them. "IC", below, is wearing a Hackney pony training surcingle that I purchased used in '97 when I purchased a Hackney pony mare. It is NICE, heavy duty, layered leather construction and I'd rather purchase another harness over getting one of these (expense). When I unpack our leather, I will need to clean and oil this one again...

You can also use "pool noodles" for "shaft training"...

Plus it looked like something I could do. And I feel comfortable that Baby would be amenable to having a couple pipes dragging around; she's so sweet!!

horses with that type of personality. Lucky you.

Thank you.

You are welcome.

 

[paintponylvr]

and here are other pics of the leather surcingle on a different pony doing some other training w/ objects... Simi is "trace clipped". And our middle daughter, Madira, working with "Simi" while she is free in the round pen to do what she wants. These older pics are all different sizes, sorry!!

 

[paintponylvr]

Simi was sold with her full sister, Vixen, and they both have become awesome little hunter ponies instead of driving ponies. BUT the ground driving work they received set them up for riding really well!

Vixen

Simi



and Lacey was driven by her new owner with her full sister Jewel for years

and youtube just changed me to Google Chrome + and I can't figure out the layout for my picture gallery now! UGH - I hated it when Vicki purposely changed to that, but at least mine stayed as Picasa. Now it's not!! I will have to see if I can figure out how to access my pictures and albums now. A lot of my links may have just been dropped, not sure. I'm beginning to HATE google!!

 

[paintponylvr]

well, I'm still working on my google stuff. Finally found these photos in another album on my laptop...

This is Jewel and Lacey. They are by my first shetland stallion & out of the hackney pony mare. Lacey, born in 99 & Jewel in 01. They were sold as a pair in 02. Their owner, Deb Branson, had them trained to drive and here are some of the pics she sent me. This harness is a pair harness (betathane) made by Country Carriages USA here in NC.

 

[paintponylvr]

sorry 2000, not 2001. Star, the 1/2 arab pony, was born in 2001.

 

[AngC]

MCR simply stands for Mountain Climbing Rope. I believe (but could be very WRONG) that most is made the same(?)... WHERE did you find it available measured in inches?

I've never heard of the MCR abbreviation. I'm familiar with such rope because my husband likes to dangle off cliffs and mountains. I don't know if it comes in inches or metric; I was just eyeballing it (and I think in inches.) The stuff he uses for climbing is different on mountains vice what he uses to dangle off a cliff. I couldn't tell you the differences, but just by looking/feeling, it's all quite different. I've been admiring it for a while, thinking I could perhaps make a much nicer, more comfortable halter. The climbing on mountains stuff is too large a diameter. The smaller "dangle off a cliff" stuff is smaller diameter, yet soft, and appears sturdy.

I'm still giggling after viewing the photo with you between the shafts with the horse in the background. Sorry, but.... shouldn't the horse be doing that? It looks like something we'd be doing; i.e., the horse standing there looking at us doing horse stuff. Anyway....