Homozygous Pinto Question

[Irish Hills Farm]

I've been thinking about DNA'ing BB to see if she might be homozygous for pinto. I have no reason to suspect this other than both parents are pinto. Anyway, today I rough clipped five out of the seven foals and while I was clipping BB, I noticed this tiny dot. Is this dot indicative of her being homozygous for pinto or is it just a dot? Opinions appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Carolyn R]

I don't put alot of stock in the thought that paw prints=homozygous tobiano. I think there are forum members that have disproved the theory in the past with testing. Its not to say she isn't homozygous, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it (without testing )

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

That's interesting to know Carolyn. I wasn't aware that paw prints equals homozygous for pinto had been disproved.

 

[love_casper]

Dots are mostly just dots, a typical tobiano trait. But sometimes clusters of them, the paw prints, can be found on homozygous tobis. Ink spots/paw prints don't neccessarily indicate homozygousity, and not all homozygous horses have them, but there is a correlation. A single one like that is mainly just a tobiano indicator, but I'd be interested to know if you test her!

I've also seen a frame/sabino horse have some feathering around her markings that resembled paw prints.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Thanks Alex for the information!

 

[rubyviewminis]

I rough clipped my Lil Gem (avatar) leaving legs and back until it warms up and I found a very dark spot like yours pictured in his white marking. He tested Heterozygous for Tobiano at Animal Genetics lab. Both his parents are Tobiano.

 

[love_casper]

Oh miracle of miracles, I found a pic of that mare!

I am quite certain that this mare had no tobiano, she had no indicators, was a loudly expressed frame, and had 4 dark legs. Tobi paw prints are usually out in the middle of a white area, not feathering off the dark like this. But you can see it almost looks the same at first glance.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

That is VERY neat Alex! Thanks for sharing that picture!!

I'm thinking that horse is drop dead gorgeous.

 

[Songcatcher]

I have had horses with paw prints who did not test homozygous for Tobiano, and have seen horses with no paw prints who did test homozygous for Tobiano. It MAY be an indicator, but certainly not a sure thing.

As a matter of fact, the horse in my avatar is tested homozygous for Tobiano and he has no paw prints.

 

[Joanne]

Alex, that horse is too cool. I want to see the rest of that horse and BOTH sides.

Here is one of my homozygous for tobiano stallions. He also throws these types of foals. I suspect he is also carrying a sabino trait that we cannot test for at this time:

Here is a homozygous for tobiano mare I got from Mona last year:

And to muddy the waters and confuse you. This mare is a frame sabino NO TOBIANO.

Two mares that are both homozygous for tobiano. No paw prints. We could not believe the results when we got them. What a surprise! :

** Without genetic testing we would never have known.

 

[love_casper]

Hey Joanne,

I know exactly where the rest of her pics (I have hundreds as she was sort of mine) are on my other computer, but that was the only one on photobucket.In the middle of a move, and the laptops the only thing hooked up, but I'll post more pics of her on this thread when I get my comp up.

The third mare you posted... did you by any chance get the tobi test in that $40 for everything deal, as I'm hearing those have caused incorrect results? Because she's a visual tobiano.... I mean if she were mine I wouldn't have felt the need to test her for it, she LOOKS sooo tobiano. The flank spot, the chest sheild, the spots on her back, I've never seen a true non-tobi look THAT much like the pattern. Interesting!!!

 

[Joanne]

Hey Joanne,

The third mare you posted... did you by any chance get the tobi test in that $40 for everything deal, as I'm hearing those have caused incorrect results? Because she's a visual tobiano.... I mean if she were mine I wouldn't have felt the need to test her for it, she LOOKS sooo tobiano. The flank spot, the chest sheild, the spots on her back, I've never seen a true non-tobi look THAT much like the pattern. Interesting!!!

Yes, I know what you mean. I thought so too. But she had the tobiano testing done at Animal Genetics. This horse I have had since 1999 and she has thrown frames and sabinos, but only heterozygous tobianos when bred to a tobi stallion. Chest shields are also common on frames. This is her other side. I agree about the flank spot.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

All these pinto genes are very interesting AND confusing at times!

I think I'll go ahead and test BB just for kicks. Probably test her paternal brother, Rock, for kicks too. Heck, might as well test their sire, Jazz Singer to see what pinto genes he is carrying.

 

[love_casper]

WOW that is very interesting. The chest sheilds I've seen on frames are usually just a dark patch between white areas, that one is... interesting since there's that white between the patch and her head!!! The two-tone tail to top it off! And the 4 white legs usually isn't a frame thing unless tobi is present also. I am gonna be tripping over this one for a long time!! LOL The other thing throwing me off is that the head looks primarily dark, like the white present is on top of tobiano... tobi always has a solid head no matter the minimal expression, and other patterns cause white on top of it. SO STRANGE!!!!!!

 

[Joanne]

WOW that is very interesting. The chest sheilds I've seen on frames are usually just a dark patch between white areas, that one is... interesting since there's that white between the patch and her head!!! The two-tone tail to top it off! And the 4 white legs usually isn't a frame thing unless tobi is present also. I am gonna be tripping over this one for a long time!! LOL The other thing throwing me off is that the head looks primarily dark, like the white present is on top of tobiano... tobi always has a solid head no matter the minimal expression, and other patterns cause white on top of it. SO STRANGE!!!!!!

One explaination is that the sabino eye patch has met the frame muzzle patch and joined on the left side.

 

[love_casper]

That must be it. I might just have to disect that one in photoshop to try and find how that works!

Anyway, got my computer up. Here's the rest of the frame/sabino Paint mare.

 

[LC Farm]

Where do you guys get your testing done at?

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Oh Alex, I remember you showing me her picture before.

I love that mare and would LOVE to have her.

:wub

:wub

Gorgeous!!

LC this is the company I have used before for color testing.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine.asp

 

[Dona]

That must be it. I might just have to disect that one in photoshop to try and find how that works!

Anyway, got my computer up. Here's the rest of the frame/sabino Paint mare.

 

[Dona]

That must be it. I might just have to disect that one in photoshop to try and find how that works!

Anyway, got my computer up. Here's the rest of the frame/sabino Paint mare.

Goreous Mare!!!! That wonderful lacy spotting pattern around the edges of the color are very indicative of the Sabino gene. I love crossing Sabinos with Frames for that very reason!