How do I worm my minis?

[jem]

Do I just use what we use on the big horses? Do weight tapes work minis?

 

[yankee_minis]

I use an ivermectin based product. Don't use Quest as some people on this board have had problems with it. Sorry, but I don't remember the active ingredient in it.

Weight tapes don't work. The best thing to do is actually weigh your horses. My vet told me I could bring my minis in to weigh them on the platform scale (they use for dogs, etc.) if I wanted to.

For weanlings I use 100 pound dose (50 if they're really tiny)

For yearlings 150 pound dose

For adults A size I use 200-250 pound dose

For tall B size I use 300-350 pound dose.

This is what I do...not saying it's the absolute only way to do it.

Others will have other opinions, I'm sure.

 

[Jill]

I don't think the weight tapes are all that accurate on minis, but they are a good tool to monitor changes in weight.

I deworm every 2 months with Ivermectin. I buy it at Jeffers for about $3.75/tube (bimectin or other "generic" ivermectin). This new Bimectin stuff is supposed to be apple flavored and it does smell like it would taste good to a horse.

Giving a mini too much ivermectin, within reason, will not hurt them, but giving them too little will not do any good. For this reason, I always aim to dose more than I think they weigh. For example, I think my 36" B mare, Lou, weighs 350#, so I dose her for 500#.

 

[ponyboi09]

My vet told me that i should almost always round up to the next spot to makesure i didnt underdose, so if they weigh like 133 i would give them a 200 dose. this is just make sure that i get all the worms, and the slight overdose doesnt hurt anything.

Will

 

[tigeresss]

I've heard that weight tapes aren't acurate and can be up to 100lbs off. For a big horse sometimes that is a big deal but for a mini that certainly is a big deal. I use liquid ivermectin.

Jill-The last worming I did on my full sized horse I used an apple flavoured paste and well...the tube handle pusher thing (no idea what you call it) was a bit stiff and it finally "went" but it wasn't in his mouth and well there was apple flavoured wormer on my pants, on my face, on my hands, all over Sundance's face and in a few other random spots. Very gross...haha

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

No one else has said it, so I will. DO NOT use QUEST brand dewormer on your minis!! Ever..........The reasons are many & I'm sure people here can tell you horror stories. Just stay away from that brand. I'm sorry, can't remember the active ingredient, but maybe someone else can. There is, I believe, another dewormer now on the market that has that same ingredient --- anyone remember what the ingredient is to avoid? I'm having a senior moment! We use ivermectin.

OOPS! I see someone else has aleady said it.......but it bears repeating I guess!

 

[jem]

Thanks for the info. I just wasn't sure about weight. My guys were born in May 05.

About Quest:

I went to a 3-day seminar on breeding several years back and the Quest problem was brought up. It seems the problem with Quest is it actually works too well. If you over dose even a little, especially on the young or pregnant, it kills the worms off so efficiently that they clog up the colon, i.e. colic. And most people, like stated above, are used to being able to over dose their horses. It was a really interesting siminar

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry jem but that is not it at all. The "overdose" margin for Ivermectin is around 20 X the suggested dose. Fenbendazole- well, I know it's getting old BUT you will have to drown the horse in the stuff to harm it!!

The overdose margin for Moxidectin is FOUR times the suggested dose!!!

The other thing is that, unlike most wormers which act in the gut , on worms, Moxidectin is held in the body fat of the animal and released over up to fourteen weeks.

Since most of the Minis, especially show ones, have little or no body fat, and certainly, however you view them, less than big horses, it is actually possible to dose a 100lbs Mini with 100lbs dose of Moxidectin and STILL over dose it as the drug has no body fat in which to be stored and thus passes straight into the gut, which is tantamount to giving the animals five or six times the suggested dosage in one go.

Moxidectin is NOT safe- I do not consider it safe for big horses, I most certainly do not consider it safe for Minis.

It is also not recommended for nor has it been tested on foals of less than four months.

A four month old Arab ( I shall use a breed with which I am familiar) would weigh what??

200lbs- maybe slightly less.

This throws out all sorts of "red lights" to me.

Not in My Barn!!!

I use weight tapes, and always have, without any problems at all.

What I do to get a fairly accurate reading is weigh the horse on my long suffering Vets scales and then juggle the tape to get the same weight. Once I am happy with where it has to be placed on each horse, and how tight it needs to be pulled, I need only weigh once a year for everything to be fine.

I know some have found them to be wildly inaccurate, but I have not.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I've posted these links before, but I feel it is worth reposting:

FDA Website - Moxidectin Adverse Reactions

Click on any of those years, or the cumulative report, and it will bring up a list of drug names. Quest is moxidectin. There are many, many more reported adverse reactions to this drug than all other dewormers combined.

FDA - Freedom of Information Summary - Moxidectin

This is the NADA - new animal drug application - information for Quest. Notice in the safety data (end of the document) that only dosages up to 3x regular were tested in adult horses. The safety margin for Quest is estimated to be no higher than 5x the recommended dose while it is 10 to 20x the usual dose, or higher (with ivermectin, it's 30x), for the other dewormers.

Here is a link to help estimate your horses' body weight:

Body Condition - Estimating Body Weight

Liz R.

 

[jem]

I might just be miss reading you, rabbitsfizz, but I think we are saying the same thing. Which basically boils down to:

What makes Quest so dangerous is that it is extremely easy to overdose your horse.

I should have included in my first post that the Vet said to never use Quest on a horse under 2 or pregnant, suggested not using it on a horse under 5, or if the horse hasn't already been on a very good worming schedule.

 

[Sandy S.]

WOULDN'T USE QUEST FOR ANY REASON.

HAVE A FRIEND THAT WAS IN MINIATURES FOR SEVERAL YEARS, HAVENBROOK. SHE TOOK A GELDING TO EQUINE VET, HE WEIGHED HIM GAVE HIM THE RIGHT DOSAGE AND 15 MINUTES ON THE WAY HOME THE HORSE WAS IN BAD SHAPE, HAD TO TURN AROUND AND TAKE HIM BACK TO THE VET FOR A LENGHTHY STAY, EVERYTHING STARTED SHUTTING DOWN. MAYBE JUST A ALLERGIC REACTION, BUT TO MANY MINIS HAVE A BAD REACTION TO TAKE THE CHANCE. HE DID SURVIVE BUT IT TOOK OVER A YEAR TO GET HIM BACK TO NORMAL.

 

[jem]

The Doctors never mentioned minis, which is a shame. They certainly should have. When I can afford to go again, I will be sure to point out that they need to include information on minis, especially since there seems to be quite a bit of difference in how you handle worming, weight, etc.

With the information I have at this time I will be adding minis to the 'No Quest' list.

 

[justaboutgeese]

With a bit of ingenuity getting a horse weighed is easy. I have used everything from hog and cattle scales to the scales at the feed mill for weighting horses. Get their weight accurately then tape them to see the difference. You can tell by their condition and the tape when it changes. Virtually all of my neighbors have old hog and cattle scales. Check around to see what is right close to home.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Thanks for the info. I just wasn't sure about weight. My guys were born in May 05.

About Quest:

I went to a 3-day seminar on breeding several years back and the Quest problem was brought up. It seems the problem with Quest is it actually works too well. If you over dose even a little, especially on the young or pregnant, it kills the worms off so efficiently that they clog up the colon, i.e. colic. And most people, like stated above, are used to being able to over dose their horses. It was a really interesting seminar

No you were not misunderstanding me, the information you have been given is incorrect, sorry!!

The thing that will kill a Mini is the way the Moxidectin is held and released into the blood stream, not it's efficacy as a wormer (which is no greater than, for example, Ivermectin) but the fact that it is 10 X easier to overdose (and any overdose can kill) than it is with, for example, Ivermectin.

It is very easy to overdose with Ivermectin in the dog, which is why it is not cleared for use in dogs or cats in this country, but NOT because it kills all the worms stone dead, but because and overdose of the chemical Ivermectin, can kill a cat or dog.

In exactly the same way that an overdose of the chemical Moxidectin can and has killed a horse.

Moxidectin does no better a job killing major worms than Ivermectin.

It is claimed to kill encysted small strongyles, but it in fact is only proven to kill 84% of them, whilst Fenbendazole five day kill 98" of the,

This is a chemical I am pretty sure will be withdrawn so, I am just wondering how many dead horses it takes to get a drug banned???

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

I think I remember the "advertised" pluses, supposedly, of Quest. They said you only have to worm every four months instead of three months, as is suggested with ivermectin. BIG DEAL!!! Especially with minis, you need to use so little wormer for weight. Even if it was a big horse, the risk would not be worth it to me. Also advertised was the "fact" that ivermectin is an old wormer to which many worms have become immune. I have never seen this said in writing by anyone who would know the scientific facts of it.

I once had a H-U-G-E argument with a vet whose clients had just bot some minis from me. He insisted on using Quest. The people called & asked me to call their vet before he used it.........therein followed that BIG argument. Lasted about 45 minutes. ended up screaming at each other. He concluded that minis were ill-mannered useless animals! I said NOT MY MINIS!!! Big jerk. Just because they have a license doesn't make them smart!!! (sometimes)

So, it ended that my customers ended up dropping that vet and their horses didn't ever get Quest. Thank goodness!!!

Jem, I must ask who sponsored the seminar?? Sometimes, its the very company that is producing the medicine. Was it Fort Dodge? Not being sarcastic....just curious.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Ivermectin is advertised as lasting eight weeks.

Moxidectin is advertised as lasting thirteen weeks.

As you say, big deal.

I am certainly going to risk my Minis life over five weeks convenience!!!

 

[Kathy2m]

My vet says NO QUEST big or small horses.....