How do you know if the fetus has died?

[StarRidgeAcres]

I have this gut feeling that one of my mares has lost her foal but just hasn't aborted it yet. I don't know if that's even possible. Here is what is happening:

She's at 286 days today. She has lost a foal at 287 days, has had a healthy foal at 285 and has never gone over 309. She's 18 and has had 9 foals. She's lost 3 with 2 being the last 2. She came to me last summer already bred. Her hormone levels were checked at 230 days and everything was normal. Her estrogen level was 1300. We started her on 2 ccs daily of regumate (still on that) and did 10 days of SMZs.

This past Sunday I noticed dried discharge in her tail. What I would consider a small amount. Nothing on her skin or down her legs. She didn't eat her breakfast and she didn't lay down for over 24 hours - which is very unusual for her because she has a bad shoulder and lays down a lot. So I called the vet out and she examined the mare. She said her cervix was closed, her internal color was good and there was no discharge pooling in the vault. We didn't see the baby move during the exam, but I did see it move before the vet got here. She drew blood and we got the results today...her estrogen level is 500!!! Or at least it was at the exact time the blood was drawn. The vet sounded very concerned when she called. She ordered estrogen (she didn't call it regumate, but I guess I though it was the same thing) given via injection once per day (can't remember the dose, it doesn't come in until tomorrow).

So, after I add all this up, plus the fact that the mare actually looks smaller today than she did last week. Her belly isn't hanging as low. It's like everything is sucked up and in.

So, I don't know what any of this means, but my gut is telling me she's fine at the moment, but the baby isn't alive anymore. And I don't know if after a baby dies in utero how long can it stay in there before it aborts. Does anyone know?

Thanks much. I predicted this foaling season was going to take its toll on me and I think I was right. :no:

 

[crponies]

I don't think it can stay in there very long without the mare becoming quite sick. If she seems pretty much ok then I wouldn't think she would be carrying a dead fetus around unless it just died. I'm sure someone can give you a more exact answer though.

 

[CharmedMinis]

I've been told that once a fetus dies the mare will abort it usually within 24 hours, but as long as 3 days, but no longer.

Have you checked the mares temperature?

Your vet can do an external ultrasound to find the babies heartbeat, shouldn't be too hard with her that far along.

I haven't given the shot version of regumate but I know a couple of people on here have. I have used regumate several times, 3 cc's was the normal dose I gave. We double dosed one mare at 6 cc's.

Good luck and keep us updated. This is one of the many reasons why I gave up breeding last year :no: Too many problems.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I've been told that once a fetus dies the mare will abort it usually within 24 hours, but as long as 3 days, but no longer.
Have you checked the mares temperature?

Well it's been 4 days so maybe it's still alive. She really seems fine otherwise. Oh, and she has a small bag even though her previous owner reported she never developed a bag until after the baby was born.

And her temp has been normal. I check it at least once per day.

Thanks for all the information. I sure hope it's all going to be OK and that my sense that something is wrong is just off base.

 

[Boinky]

well i've found one of my mares actually will not look very pregnant at certain times..i think it's because the foal shifts ect. she hasn't look nearly as pregnant for about a week now as she did before. i would say it doens't sound like the foal is dead...i'd just hang in there and keep the vets number readily on hand incase something does go wrong ...but keep watching!

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I'm not sure how long a dead fetus can be retained, but if it was she should abort it or you need to have it removed as a necrotic foal isn't a good thing.

Apparently your vet didn't seem to think it had died, so I would probably do what you're doing, monitor and stay in contact with my vet.

In our experience though - foals will move about, some more than others and can lay across the belly or more in line with mom's body. When the mares lose that really round body and look 'not pregnant' though it usually is an indicator that foaling is close as the foal has moved into birthing position.

.

 

[Boinky]

Michelle,

Last year was my mares first year..she did bag up before foaling.... i remember stressing over what signs she'd have and what she wouldn't. I couldn't remember how far out she started looking "not pregnant" but it seems like it was fairly close.. well she's doing it now and her hind end feels as squishy as it was last year and her flanks are sunken in in front of her hips like before.. but she has no bag to speak of. she did have two days that she was a bit swollen and starting to bag..then it went away and she really doesn't have much to speak of. ..so i'm not really sure what to expect..LOL How far out do you usually find they "don't look pregnant" like a week...2,3 month? I'm really really hoping she bags up before hand again because i don't live at the farm and it would be "uncomfortable" to stay there very long..lol i wouldn't mind for a week or so if i had to but i just can't see spending weeks there watching. My mare is kinda weird in that she seems to cycle even after she's bred so she could be due up untill may from what i saw the stallion breed her..andi hand bred her in march and april after she foaled so who the heck knows when she'll foal!!

 

[nootka]

The filly we had born tonight, I NEVER felt or saw her move. She is/was just fine, obviously. I hope your girl is ok, too. The discharge could have been the mucous plug which I know sometimes dislodges a good bit of time before the actual birth (I've heard of a week or two, and sometimes heard of within a day).

I will keep her and you in my thoughts.

Liz M.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

If the foetus dies it is ejected within 48 hours.

The only exception to this is when the foetus mummifies due to twinning.

 

[REO]

Except for the low level of 500, I'd say she is getting ready to foal. She does have a history of foaling this soon. I would have her being watched close.

I have had mares that when I checked them, they would have dark dried blood around the vulva. Right when the foal had dropped in getting ready to be born. The foal moving broke a blood vessel and that caused the blood on the mare. She foald about 4-7 days later. This mare was also an older mare.

The longest I've heard of (because it happened to us at day 75) a mare aborted one 3 days after it died (according to the vet)

I don't know, but it sounds to me like this mare might be going to foal soon. No matter what, good luck! I hope it turns out good news!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I have had mares that when I checked them, they would have dark dried blood around the vulva. Right when the foal had dropped in getting ready to be born. The foal moving broke a blood vessel and that caused the blood on the mare. She foald about 4-7 days later. This mare was also an older mare.

My mind is swimming with sooo much information that I forgot to say that the vet mentioned it could be from a broken vessel. Thanks for bringing it up! :aktion033:

 

[TMR]

I had a mare go full term and have a calcified foal (I think that is what the vet called it) She had lost the foal at what the vet thought was around 8 months and the foal mummified in the uterus. It was a very difficult delivery and what we ended up pulling was a fully formed foal that was all curled up and mummified. It was the worse thing I have ever dealt with and no signs whatsoever as she went a full 326 days right on schedule for her. The placenta was checked and it was not a case of twinning. My vet said it was not that uncommon in cattle, but is considered rare in horses, most will abort within 48 hours. She looked very in foal the whole time and was very large.

I hope this is not the case for you and the fact that your mares shape is changing I think is a good sign as in my case she stayed the same with a wide big belly.

 

[sedeh]

I agree with Michelle. She may be getting close to foaling with the "shape changing". Sending good thoughts your way that the foal is alive and well!

:

:

:

 

[Floridachick]

Hopefully she is still in foal. Did you ck her paddocks etc to make sure nothing was lost?? If her levels are so low why didn't your vet have you double dose her orally until the shot version comes? Goodluck, thoughts and prayers coming.

 

[Gena]

I pray all is ok and its just the foal moving into position - please let us know, I will have you in our thoughts and prayers

:

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Did you ck her paddocks etc to make sure nothing was lost??


Yes, she is isolated to a particular stall and run and it's been checked and rechecked and checked again! I'll probably check again when I get home tonight!

If her levels are so low why didn't your vet have you double dose her orally until the shot version comes?

I don't know. I didn't even know I should have asked about that but now I do.

I know I don't have to tell any of you guys this, but these minis just don't play by the same rules! The vet we use for reproductive issues, like this one, is from an equine-only hospital. People come from several states away with their expensive race and show horses just to use this facility. But they just don't have a lot of experience with minis. They are kind of expensive and I don't think that many of the mini breeders in my area actually use them. I think they go to their local vet for most issues. I know I've never seen another mini there. Honestly, what I see the most of are clydsedales and thoroughbreds at this place. All the Busch clydes go there and I guess the others are race horses. Never see any ponies or minis.

Thanks for everyone's help! It means a lot to me and it IS making a difference in Cappy's health and wellbeing.