How much for a beginner safe driving horse?

[Jenny]

I don't know anything about the price of driving horses, but I paid $1000 for Breaker and I thought I got an AMAZING deal and he isn't even broke to drive! I was shocked that I could buy a horse for that little money (my laptop had cost more!). He is double registered (AMHR/ASPC) but i won't be showing him. I would think that a good driving horse would cost way more, but I guess I have a lot to learn about the miniature horse market

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I don't know how you can get a horse worth his salt for those prices. Mind you, Legend was in the top 5 stallions in 2011, obviously we paid more, and he wasn't even broke to drive, but... geez. I think we got a helluva deal. I was happy to pay the breeder's price.

I don't expect I would get a decent driving horse for 500, 1000, or even 1500 that I would care to look at for 30 years much less drive. Call me ignorant. But divide that out over a horse's lifetime and it doesn't make much difference in terms of cost, but a LOT of difference in terms of quality.

Y'all's horses are worth more than that.

SO true! BUT- it's what the market is right now. People want good horses but sure don't want to PAY for them. I've had people contact me about buying Minis, when I give them our prices they dop off the face of the earth! And our horses aren't expensive- colts start at $500 and fillies $800. Double registered foals out of show stock.

I just sold a double registered, super well broke driving gelding- for $600. Granted, that was to a friend and an awesome home, but she was the ONLY one who was interested in him. And I only had him priced at $1000 to begin with. *sigh*

 

[Foxhaven]

You simply do not sell at those prices. IMHO.

I know, I know, situations are situations. But if people want good horses, they need to support the creation of good horses and reward hard work. Everyone has a Walmart mentality. Commoditization.

Yeah, I don't shop at Walmart either...

I know the breeder we bought from is patient, and generally gets his price. We asked for a package deal, and did not question the numbers he came back with. Over the life of the horse it was a great, great deal on some very fine, quality animals who will be a pleasure for decades.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I'm in nearly the same boat as Feild -of-Dreams, I sold a lovely quiet gelding for $500. He was of course only AMHA registered and not halter quality but he was harness broke and user friendly without any vices, completey uncomplicated. The person who bought him just wanted a horse she could enjoy, not a show horse and since I had been looking for a buyer for some time I was happy to sell him to what looked to be (no for sures in this world) an excellent home where he'd be cared for and loved. Sometimes it just isn't about the money. On the other hand, if anyone were to ask me about the prices of my horses who all are trained to drive I'd ask a minimum of $750 for one of the pair of geldings (and they would not sell singly ) up to $3000 for my tried and true show mare, most likely , assuming I was at all interested in selling which at the moment I am not.

 

[Foxhaven]

That seems a fair to inexpensive price for your mare... and unbelievably cheap for the geldings unless they have conformation issues! Again JMHO.

We get blowback from some folks on what we sell Wheaten Terrier puppies for... that tells us it won't be a great home and we move on. We have a rigorous interview process, we visit the home when possible (or get very strong references), We match the personality of the puppy to the person and the home. We have a rigorous socialization program. We do genetic testing and select the mating pairs very carefully. Our dogs are grand champions and champions. The market is not dissimilar to the mini horse market inasmuch as our competition is puppy mills (and their pet store outlets) and backyard, throw-em-together breeders.

We have a good reputation and offer many services to the puppy adopters - for the lifetime of the puppy. But we get our price with patience. It's certainly not about the money (we make very little even at our price) but if it is simply a public service, there are easier ways to give away cash!

I know the breeder we got our horses from has a similar approach... maybe food for thought, maybe not, dunno. Hope it helps!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

The market varies depending on where you are. The poor market and the less than acceptable homes is the reason we gelded stallions and stopped breeding. I can not bring myself to sell to any home that I don't feel will be a safe and caring one so that narrows the field. Then when I do sell I am always a bit worried about them since even if the new owner is great they might decide to sell and the next home might be less than great. Re: breeding dogs - I did much as you do when I bred the one and only litter from our Bullmastiff bitch years ago. I only bred her because I wanted a pup for myself and could not get her line any other way. Then I worked very hard to socialize the pups and give them as much life experience as possible before they left. They were vetted extensively and ready to be healthy loving family members. I lost a couple of friends because I refused them a puppy (one was never home and could not give me a plan for the pup while he was away and the other was blaming his present pup for the behaviour issues he and his children were creating and wanted to dump pup one and get one of ours - NOPE) They were bred carefully for health, intelligence and temperament and I put my heart into the breeding and many many hours of time and they did not sell cheap, but homes were still selected on other considerations than money. We had many people asking for a second pup or a rebreeding only to be disappointed that we were not planning to become regular breeders (our girl was first and foremost a family member and it was never our intention that she be a puppy factory) I do believe for the most part tho that if people buy it cheaply they value it less and it is at more risk of being a 'throw away' or neglected. I know that is not always the case but in my experience it often is. My poor husband was afraid we were about to become a 10 dog family and I would not find any homes that I felt were good enough lol. Bless his heart he was right there backing my decisions all the way. My whole point in this ramble was to say that I understand what you are saying Foxhaven and even agree with you to some degree but I just think there are times when a perfect home comes along that selling for whatever they offer is not unreasonable. In our area the price I listed for my mare would be considered quite high.

 

[Foxhaven]

Yep I get that.

FWIW, our puppy contract for adoption specifies that the adopter may NOT sell the puppy without prior permission from us. But we also offer to take back the puppy for any reason, for life. We have only had to do so twice, and due to circumstances beyond the control of the adopter. Dunno if that is applicable to horses but maybe food for thought, again.

You can get a Wheaten puppy for half what we charge, or you can rescue one... but in the long run it ain't cheaper. Purchase price is only the initial cost, same with horses. We have never had unhappy adopters. I still think when the horse community gets firm on prices and can articulate clearly WHY, the commoditization of horses will decrease. Part of that is reduced supply though.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

While I agree with you for the most part, I have used the no sell, right of first refusal clause when I sold a horse and it was IMO useless. The new owner went ahead and sold the mare to a neighbour with out contacting us at all. It wasn't until many months later we discovered the sale and by then the neighbour had also sold the horse and we lost track of it. We found that legally we were without any real support on the contract. We could of course have sued the original buyer but would not have gotten the horse back regardless. We did offer to take back 2 of the puppies we sold (and truly wanted them back- didn't consider it a hardship) when one of the buyers decided to move into an apartment. Again, we thought it was a clear choice, but the puppies (then adult dogs) disappeared into that world of "oh we gave them to a good home"

We were very upset about it but could not force them to get the dogs back and return them to us. Maybe our laws are different but here, I try to consider all sales final tell the new owner that returning them is always and option and can only pray that they will come back if they need me.

You sound like a very responsible breeder, your dogs are some of the lucky ones.

 

[Foxhaven]

Agreed if push comes to shove it might be hard to enforce, if not impossible. But it does line out expectations for the new parents, along with the rationale behind it. We've been lucky so far. Probably more like a covenant than a contract.

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Probably more like a covenant than a contract.

I love this description of the contract. Some people will take it to heart and some will not (not unlike marriage vows I suppose )

Sorry everyone to have gone so far off topic - its winter, the perfect time for a fireside discussion like this

 

[happy appy]

I know, when I'm saving well bred American minis that still have their papers from the feed lot in Canada what does that say about the horse industry? This mare has been bumped around for the last 9 months before making it across the border into Canada to end up at a slaughter house. She is now safe with me but definitely worse for wear going by the listed past owners on the papers. I was able to talk with her breeder, first owner and last register owner. She only had 3 listed on the papers.

 

[Foxhaven]

Not too far off topic though... whether buying or selling, it is about way more than the money for a quality driving horse you will enjoy for decades!

Much to consider. All part of the world we are building together. What contribution am I making to it?

 

[Jules]

Bit off topic, but here in Australia I see so many people breeding mini's, while at the same time watching the horse sales where perfectly decent little shetlands (some with rego) end up facing death as no-one wants them. I have seen mini's go through the saleyards that sell for as little as $20 (seriously!) and an 'expensive' one is $200. Some of these ponies are broken in, but getting them is a gamble as mostly their history is unknown. It makes me really question the logic of the people who just keep on breeding when the market is simply not there and there are far too many minis/shetlands as there are, very sad for all those unwanted little equines

I paid $100 for my gelding...having said that he was a totally unhandled colt who I had gelded then trained myself. If I were to go out and buy a beginner safe driving horse, I would probably be prepared to pay $1500 and expect something fairly nice for that money given the current market here.

 

[Minimor]

I'm not sure what the price range for a beginner-safe driving horse is; so many of the ones I see advertised are still quite green. I sold a green (very green) gelding for $800; the sad thing is, even if he had been well trained I doubt that I could have got much more than that for him. Over the years I have seen many trained driving horses advertised for $500 or $600 (no way of knowing, of course, just how well trained/safe they really are) and I have always said that is way too low. I remember one time being happy to see one listed for $1000--then read further in the ad and realized that price included the horse and his cart and harness. IMO a well trained, dependable driving horse of good quality should be worth $2500 or $3000, easily, but I think in most instances a seller would have a hard time getting that kind of money. There are just too many lower priced horses available, and so many people prefer to buy an untrained horse for a low price and train it themselves. (which I am not saying is a bad thing--it is what I prefer myself. I don't buy trained horses--I like getting them unhandled)

 

[diamond c]

My grand father and I were in minis 30+ years ago. He didn't talk money to me much back then (Iwas just a kid). But I was around all the "old timers" of the breed and I know that prices were a lot more then than they are now. There are just a lot more horses now compared to then. Also the economy isn't what it used to be. Several years ago it was comonplace to go to the local saterday night horse sale and see prices of $1500-2500 and more for reg. ridding horses. Now you can buy them all day long for $500 and even less.

 

[7fluffyfriends]

We have three driving minis and two of the minis have been to a few small parades and preschool visits as well as used for pleasure driving here in the country. The minis were purchased for less than $500, which at the time, was a bargain in my area.

While I am very comfortable and confident with several training areas, driving was new to me. So, since we were very fortunate in being able to find an awesome trainer, we (husband and myself) hauled them out of state to the trainer and then paid for two months of training. After all was said and done, each mini would have 'cost' about $1200 if you add together the original purchase price and the training. They now, of course, are priceless. They have proven again and again the value of good training. They are calm, comfortable, and confident, and I trust them to haul myself and our grandkids ..... just not all at the same time !

I could not have paid up front the purchase price for an already trained and registered mini at that time (about 6 years ago). It helped my limited budget to purchase the minis and then work with them on the ground while saving for the next step. Spreading things out also allowed me to purchase the harnesses and carts as I was able to do so.

The driving minis have given a ton of enjoyment and as I get older I appreciate being able to be involved actively in a sport that has so many avenues from simple pleasure driving to a variety of competitive events - all in a smaller easy to handle package. It took awhile to do things piecemeal like this, but the longevity of the average mini/pony make it easy. The mares range in age from 11 - 13 years and barring accident or illness should have many fun and useful years ahead.