How to look up color on AMHA pedigrees?

[hobbyhorse23]

On his AMHR papers the colors are listed but his dam is registered as bay, his sire as sorrel, and one of the grandparents as "sorrel and white." However one of Kody's full sisters is a loud black and white tobiano so one of his parents must have a pinto gene floating around somewhere and I'd like to see if their color is marked differently on the AMHA papers. Either registry would be enough to get Kody Pinto-registered as Breeding Stock but someone in the first two generations on his pedigree must be marked as "pinto." The AMHA papers only have Kody's color listed on the pedigree. How do I find out what his parents were marked as?

Leia

 

[REO]

Registered name?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Arrowstars Dakota. Thanks REO!

Leia

 

[Becky]

Arrowstars Dakota is listed as a solid sorrel by a solid sorrel and out of a solid bay in the AMHA studbooks.

 

[REO]

I was out feeding the horses and Becky beat me to it

 

[iowa]

His sire's dam is a pinto sorrel.

| | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| | BRONCO BILLY - I 01424B

| | |[12/15/1978 : S : SBK : BD : - : 32.250]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| BRONCO BILLYS BILLY THE KID - A 12430

| |[09/08/1985 : S : SSR : BD : - : 33.000]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| | TEARDROP MONTANA - I 00706

| | |[01/01/1970 : M : PSR : - : - : 32.000]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

ARROWSTARS DAKOTA - A 157245

|[04/15/2000 : G : SSR : DN : - : 33.500]

| | BAY BOY - UNREG.

| ROYS GIRL - A 18791

| |[04/08/1984 : M : SBA : - : DC : 30.500]

| | SARAH LEE - UNREG.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

His sire's dam is a pinto sorrel.

| | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| | BRONCO BILLY - I 01424B

| | |[12/15/1978 : S : SBK : BD : - : 32.250]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| BRONCO BILLYS BILLY THE KID - A 12430

| |[09/08/1985 : S : SSR : BD : - : 33.000]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

| | TEARDROP MONTANA - I 00706

| | |[01/01/1970 : M : PSR : - : - : 32.000]

| | | UNKNOWN - UNREG.

ARROWSTARS DAKOTA - A 157245

|[04/15/2000 : G : SSR : DN : - : 33.500]

| | BAY BOY - UNREG.

| ROYS GIRL - A 18791

| |[04/08/1984 : M : SBA : - : DC : 30.500]

| | SARAH LEE - UNREG.

How on earth did you get colors out of that alphabet soup??

Thank you for the listing!

I wish I could see a picture of his sire as my suspicion is he's the one carrying pinto. Kody's sister is a full tobiano, no question about it, and has been DNA qualified to sire, dam, and Kody. (She's how I got him registered as a four year old when his dam was deceased- they parent-qualified him to his sire and his registered full sister and let him in!)

Leia

 

[iowa]

LOL! It looks different on the AMHA website, but I couldn't get it to post that way here. Teardrop Montana is his grand-dam and it is she that is sorrel pinto!! Perhaps his sire is a minimal pinto with a tiny white spot under his belly or somewhere else obscure??

 

[targetsmom]

The first letter of the 3 in the color designation: S stands for solid, P for pinto, A for Appaloosa, and L for Pintaloosa (do NOT want to see A or L to register as Pinto).

 

[Joanne]

Minimal tobiano pintos can have just four white coronets or small socks and still pass on the tobiano pinto gene. These horses have NO BODY WHITE and cannot be listed as a pinto even if their DNA shows they carry it as phenotypically they are a solid. One of the parents must carry the tobiano pinto gene for an offspring to have markings.

 

[Charlotte]

Those solids who produced the pinto foals are most likely like our Paradigm.

She is a homozygous tobiano with just a little white on 3 feet.

Unless there is body white (pink skinned white spot) most registries won't list their color as pinto.

this is the reason I would really like to see the registries have two designations for color:

Phenotype & Genotype (if dna tested). That way we would know what color the horse was supposed to 'look' like and also know what the genetic color, or pattern, is.

Charlotte

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree completely- I have thought about this for some time now, and a lot of people just do not understand colour and pattern so, how about a simple box on the papers- no "pheno" or "geno" since this appears to confuse some, just a box into which you can place the horses tested colour/pattern. So, the registry can put what they like, but in the DNA tested box you can put what the horse is actually knownto be.

 

[supaspot]

I agree completely- I have thought about this for some time now, and a lot of people just do not understand colour and pattern so, how about a simple box on the papers- no "pheno" or "geno" since this appears to confuse some, just a box into which you can place the horses tested colour/pattern. So, the registry can put what they like, but in the DNA tested box you can put what the horse is actually knownto be.

thats an excellent idea !

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Great idea Charlotte and Rabbit! It's frustrating as heck to have colors mis-identified. The minimal pinto's are one of the worst, well besides the mismarked/named Silver gene!

This stallion - Grosshills Littlemans Anticipation - solid black, with a faint (I'm talking 10-50 white hairs lol!) in the winter line on his lip. He is a Rowdy grandson, dam's side all listed as solid.

He's sired a number of foals here - some solids with just white coronets, facial white, etc. and a few surprises:

Wesco Farms LM Shakira (solid white dam - Rowdy line)

Wesco Farms LM It's Gotta Be Magic (dam is palomino -likely silver buckskin - her dam is pinto though)

 

[targetsmom]

And some of those "solid" minis (especially with Rowdy blood) can produce lethal white foals, like happened to a friend of mine. So a box for the genetic test results might even save a life...

 

[Charlotte]

Jane and all, I REALLY like the idea of the DNA box! The registries could require a copy of the color test results if they want too and that would help us SO much!

Charlotte

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Minimal tobiano pintos can have just four white coronets or small socks and still pass on the tobiano pinto gene. These horses have NO BODY WHITE and cannot be listed as a pinto even if their DNA shows they carry it as phenotypically they are a solid. One of the parents must carry the tobiano pinto gene for an offspring to have markings.

Exactly.

I figure Kody's sire is probably the very definition of "breeding stock pinto," which would make Kody eligible too. Probably more so than Turbo, who is technically eligible because his sire is pinto but who has not one white hair on his entire body!

At least Kody has roaning galore and probably carries some odd form of sabino.

My Arab, Spyderman, had regular sabino. His own marking would have just barely qualified him for Pinto registration based on his chin white and a small roany spot on his butt however he produced at least four loud sabino pintos out of solid mares that had not only higher/broader versions of their sire's white markings but also belly spots.

Yay for those Serafix bloodlines!

Leia

 

[LindaL]

Not to hijack Leia's thread, but I have recently been thinking of color testing my colt Khan to see if he carries pinto even tho he is most definitely solid (he has one small white pastern), but both of his parents are pinto...? I plan to use him on my mares who while also solid also come from pinto backgrounds. When you have a solid horse from pinto, do you automatically test or do you "assume" they also carry pinto?

 

[Charlotte]

Just because sire and dam are pinto doesn't mean the foal carries pinto...possible, but the only way to know is to test. Now if the foal has any white on face or feet, then by all means test. The only problem is, there is no test for splash and the test for sabino only is for one facet of sabino. But testing is certainly something to do.

This mare (a lot of face white and blue eyed)

{sorry, I can't get one picture out of this...she is the 4th picture from the left}

Bred to a sabino/tobiano stallion with minimal body white produced a solid black (tested)

Charlotte