Hypothetical matings

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ClickMini

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I am hoping this is a fun thread, and possibly somewhat educational as well. I have what I think is a pretty nice herd of horses at this point, have shown successfully, and am ready to breed some now. I would like to know what crosses would be most interesting to people and why. What price bracket would you place a foal from these crossings, in your opinion, if the foal were of pretty good quality with no major faults.

Here are the horses in question:

Stallion 1: from an outstanding performance horse breeding farm, pedigree is the "best of the best," horse can MOVE, he wins at halter but I don't consider him to really be a great halter horse. He is tiny, about 29-1/2" tall, so I have never trained him to drive. He is very smart and trainable, and with his background he might throw size all over the map, but I wouldn't expect over 34". AMHA/AMHR

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Stallion 2: from a well-known halter breeding farm, pedigree is 1/2 Arenosa, 1/2 mini. He is going to mature at about 33 or 33-1/2". He is a very nice mover, he has won at halter in some very limited showing. Great temperament, very trainable. He will be trained to drive in 2009, with an eye on competing in both breed ring and CDE. I believe this guy to be the "pretty performance horse" that everyone claims they are looking for.
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AMHR only, will be hardshipped AMHA as soon as he's eligible.

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Mare 1: AMHR Hall of Fame (halter), drives in breed shows and CDE, this is an outstanding all-around horse. Pedigree is somewhat nondescript but does have Lucky 4 lines. She is 36-1/4" permanent measurement, 38" at the wither for CDE. She is an average mover, but looks very nice moving out in harness. She is my go anywhere, do anything horse. AMHR only.

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Mare 2: from an outstanding performance horse breeding farm, excellent pedigree, she moves wonderfully and has won in both the country and single pleasure driving classes. Has won halter championships. 2007 Reserve National Champion Country Pleasure Driving Mares. National Top Ten in Halter. She is another of the "pretty performance horses." 33". AMHA/AMHR.

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Mare 3: from a well-known halter breeding farm. She is 100% Shetland, alot of her background is Arenosa. She is about 33-1/2" tall. I will hardship her if she stays this size, probably will. She is a very nice mover, very athletic. I will probably not breed her to Stallion 2, as they are a little too close on the pedigree, although many would not consider it a problem. Her grandsire is his sire. Otherwise they are both complete outcrosses on the other side. I am still considering that. She is extremely refined, although she has really come into her own since this photo was taken. She has never been shown, for a variety of reasons. AMHR/ASPC.

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Mare 4: from a well-known halter breeding farm. Never shown. Approx. 32" tall. She has produced several babies, one was shown to a show championship as a foal and is a very nice mare. I bought another of her foals myself, a 3/4 sister to Stallion 2, and I think she is pretty special. The mare's conformation has been very depleted by having foals, her back is "sprung," more or less. She has a beautiful head and eye. I have only had her for a couple of months, and I probably wouldn't necessarily have picked this mare out of a crowd, but I LOVE the babies she has put on the ground. She is currently AMHR only, but I am going to hardship her into AMHA.

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What I would like to hear from people is which would be your "favorite" pairing, in order, and why.
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Also what you would expect to pay for a foal (a range) from crossing each of the stallions on each of the mares.

Have fun!
 
I would breed stallion # 1 to mare #3 because I would love to see more Arenosa blood lines in AMHA size minis. I would breed stallion #2 to the rest and hope to keep the size down. I don't have a clue on price. Your horses are beautiful! I would love to someday get an Arenosa mare! They are very hard to find in AMHA size. That's just my opinion.

Shelia
 
This is a fun "what if" thread
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My order of excitement for potential babies would be:

Stallion #2 with Mare #2

Stallion #2 with Mare #4

Stallion #2 with Mare #1

Stallion #2 with Mare #3 (wouldn't worry about the father / grandfather relationship)

I chose Stallion #2 over Stallion #1 for all the mares because I think he has a nicer front end including head and neck tie-in.

Now, how much would they be worth? That is a dangerous question to try to answer but IMO I would say those 4 babies would probably be in the $2000 - $5000 range (depending on lots of factors).
 
Thanks Lisa, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for! And pretty much what I feel also. Stallion 1 is an awesome potential sire of performance horses, both due to his genetic background and his own athletic ability. But he really isn't what I consider a halter horse. I will use Stallion #1 to see how he does but I LOVE Stallion #2, he is everything I would look for in a mini. And I will admit that my most favorite idea for crossing is the #2's...I have a feeling that one won't be for sale though.
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A lot of people have looked here but not replied! Come on folks, come out and play horsey matchmaker with me!!! :D
 
I chose stallion #2, as well, for all, as I feel he's just got nicer proportions as well as a lot better angles in places.
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No offense to Laddie, mind you, I love to watch him go in the ring in every capacity!

Liz
 
I would breed the second stallion to all of the mares. Not that the first stallion isn't nice, but if you have something nicer that still complements the mares, why would you use one that isn't quite as nice?

I would price them at about $1500 for colts, and $2000-3000 for fillies possibly. But who knows what they will produce?

Good luck....

Andrea
 
Aw, poor little Laddie boy! He can't get no respect. lol. I guess I shouldn't have put his photo up next to the wonder boy, it'd be like putting Ellen Degeneres next to Elle McPherson and saying which one is better!

Alladdin (stallion #1) definitely has his strong points, in particular his movement. If he were 3" taller, he would be one kick-butt driving horse. And with his pedigree, he should throw it as well. His sire is Century Farms Bey Masquerade, World Grand Champion Single Pleasure Driving Horse and his dam is GG Cleopatra, one of the most venerable producers in the history of the AMHA, having produced 4 National and World Grand Champion driving horses herself. So I still will give him a chance to prove himself on a few mares!
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Okay I'll vote for Laddie :bgrin But you already know I love him! I would breed him to the last mare. Since you KNOW what she produces and like her foals. And you love Aladdin!

I would breed the rest to stallion #2 and maybe I'll breed one of mine to him some day
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: I agree that the baby out of #2 and Flirty will not be for sale. That is going to be one AWESOME baby!!!
 
Boy, if you ever put a foal up for sale by #2 and out of Flirt, I bet you'd have people fighting over the foal!
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: I know I would be!
 
If these were my horses, I would geld Stallion #1 and use Stallion #2 on Mares #2 and #3. If it were an option, I would actually consider using outside stallions if they would prove more suitable. I would think you could get upwards of $2K for the resulting foals if they turned out well.

Stallion #1 and Mares #1 and #4 just don't do anything for me, but #4 doesn't have the best picture to represent her. I know Laddie is a favorite, but his faults are glaringly obvious to my eye and I believe it'd have to be one heck of a mare to bring out his potential to produce through his pedigree. I feel much the same about Mare #1, and she doesn't have a pedigree to back her up.
 
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Well Nicole thanks for your honesty and I do appreciate your opinion. I will not geld Lad at this point for several reasons. His full sister produced a knockout baby this year up at Stacy's. Lad does have a few issues but he is no dink. If he doesn't outproduce himself I will not use him anymore, but I want to have the chance to see what he can do with a good mare. As a matter of fact, if I bred him to Flirt, which was my intent when I bought her, it will combine all of the foundation lines from the Mountain Meadows breeding program: Baylee, Cleo, Tymer, and Debonaire. Quite honestly there is no need to make a decision on Alladdin because he has the best temperament on any horse I have ever owned, be it stallion, gelding, or mare. He is an absolutely wonderful boy.

I have not ever bred mare #1 myself, although I bought her bred. I don't know if you were on this board when she foaled and lost her foal...it was heartbreaking. It was also a very nice foal. She did outproduce herself. And let's not forget that she has proven herself in the show ring with a HOF in halter, that isn't too shabby I don't think. I probably won't breed Ally, but the main reason above all is I am having too much fun with her. :bgrin She is actually quite a nice mare particularly if someone is interested in combined driving. She is totally perfect for that. I have had quite a few people say they'd like a foal from her and Esprit. In my feeling her faults are more aesthetic than functional. Her head is not "pretty" and I feel her neck is a bit short, I believe she is also slightly downhill built. But when she bridles up she is lovely. I couldn't ask for a better CDE horse. Which is really the reason why she may never be bred.
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As far as Mare #4, the baby walking in front of her is a 3/4 sister to Esprit and is her daughter. I own that one too. She is gorgeous. And if you want to see Stepper's other baby, go to http://www.quailrunminiatures.com/Salepage.html and scroll down to the page to see Sundance LB Something To Talk About. I think Stepper has proven herself as a broodmare.

Here is Stepper's '07 foal:

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Well, I was thinking that poor little Laddie really didn't have an opportunity to show himself off doing what he does best, so I put together a video for him. :D

Maybe some will like him better once they see it.
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What a fun thread!

I really like stallion #2 and mare #2 and would be very curious to see that cross!
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: Also, I totally understand your wanting to try stallion #1 and see what he produces. I also have a stallion that I am "trying" on a few mares before I make any long-term decisions. IMO, if the pedigree and/or breeding history says the foals should be/are better than the parents, why not try it? You may just hit on a great thing. If not, you don't repeat it.

Good luck with all your very nice horses!
 
Amy you can send each and every one of them to my house! That said When you breed for a driving horse you need PRESENCE and Laddie has it. You can't tell with breeding unless you try. I see so many people breed mares that do not equal or better themselves time after time. The same is done with stallions. I don't breed any of the mares here until they have proven themselves and even then if the babies don't equal the mare or stallion they will not be bred again. Understand though that you are asking for advice via pictures and pictures do not always show what is there. I have seen Flirt though and she is one awesome girl. If she ever wants a hot date with Fred he's be more than willing.
 
Thanks Linda, yes it occurred to me that the reason I can "see" Laddie for what he is when people looking at photos can't is because I see his spirit, personality and presence. He is undeniable in real life! LOL So I made the video to show it off a little bit. He is an awesome, incredible, wonderful boy.

I wish you and Fred lived a little closer because I happen to have quite a love affair going with him also! Flirt would definitely be visiting him when the time comes.

Well off to my driving lesson.
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