I am shocked!!

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slaneyrose

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Co. Wicklow. Ireland
I have just been reading an old thread about the difference between shetlands and miniature horses..and I cant believe how different the american shetland is from the original stocky ones that are still bred in the shetland isles today!! Goodness me, how did they become so refined???? Some other blood MUST have been introduced to make them look like they do today?? Doesnt that make them not "purebred" tho??? I, like many others, have a tiny 28" registered mini shetland who, although not a thoroughbred type, is confirmationly (is that a word? :)) very correct and I plan to show her this year and then breed her with a suitable stallion!! She doesnt have "no neck, bad bite" and all the other things I have been reading that some breeders here seem to picture when thinking about the original shetland or miniature shetland. so where on earth did these beautiful new "shetlands" come from????
 
not a shetland expert for sure
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but thru the years they did seem to get a lot of hackney blood mixed in the shetlands. this is why the different classes of shetlands was started: classic, foundation, modern div a & b. I talked with a lot of older pony breeders at Congress and they really want DNA to become the standard in ASPC to stop the infusion of hackney blood.

Im sure someone else here will explain it better. But I will say that i own two arenosa bloodline shetlands and they are very refined but I attribute that to the arenosa blood NOT hackney.

If you look at my site and see patches its easy to see the hackney influence in her pedigree but especiallly when she moves. She is a modern pleasure B divisiion because she has known hackney in her pedigree
 
We do not have shetlands

A couple years ago a shetland breeder told me that there were quite a few breeders in US that were crossing hackneys with shetlands and reg ASPC and then hoped to find a way to get some of them AMHR B as well. From his story I don't think they were telling anyone what they were doing and with no DNA testing they were not getting caught. From his discussiion he was strictly and old style (stocky) shetland breeder and was appalled at what was taking place.
 
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We used to have 2 sheltlands. The last one we had we had to find her a home. She had foundered on us before. We had leased her out under stricked condidtions that she was not alound any grass at all or grain. What did they do, put her out on a huge fresh pasture of grass. Well after several months we got her back to normal, but we simply did not at the time have a dry lot for her. So we found her a good home where she would have that.

She was the old style and sweet as could be. I most defenatly love the old style. Im not sure a fan of the "new" style, nor am I a fan of the "new" styles hot personality.
 
She was the old style and sweet as could be. I most defenatly love the old style. Im not sure a fan of the "new" style, nor am I a fan of the "new" styles hot personality.
I am with you Ashley I love the older style and would only have one of them if I even get another shetland again.
 
New Style or old style, I have been raised with Shetlands and let me just say that is more than a couple of years.
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: Our shetlands have always been refined much as the ones today. Also then and now I have never had a HOT !! or Mean nasty one.. I have always said Shetlands got a bad rap years ago , as they were turned over to kids and adults never had a role in their learning habits.. :no: :no:
 
belinda i also get so tired of everyone making blanket statements about shetlands. I only have 3 but I can tell you that when people come here these are the ones they are attracted to as they are so fun and so full of personality but dont have a mean bone in their body. Just to show here is my mean viscious modern mare being shown by my son who was only 10 at the time and had never shown any horse!

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: Saddly there are 2 breeds of horses that have had a bad rap for years. And I'm a lover of both

the Arabian and the Shetland Pony... both are said to be mean & hot. But we all know it's because they are just too smart for most people.

Like an old cowboy once told me"I can't stand a horse who's smarter then me." :lol: He siad it I didn't!
 
My neighbors have added about five small shetlands to their herd recently that also are AMHR. Let me tell you, I wish they were in MY yard!! The conformation and movement on these horses gives you goosebumps and will make your jaw drop. I keep telling her I will steal one and then just dye it's hair, hahahaha

They are AWESOME with great temperments too. They now have the 'modern' and 'classic' type Shetland and there are some really NICE ponies out there! I see nothing wrong with incorporating their superior movement into the smaller Minis, who to me, are often lacking a nice way of going. Where do folks think that the Minis came from in the first place??
 
Well I live here, Shetland I mean, and I do get terribly confused when you guys talk about Shetlands, Over here there is one type, small, hairy, stocky and hard as nails. Lives on fresh air and has no tendency to have any knee action at all. :bgrin :bgrin Sometimes I hear folk from the US say they have Shetlands and show me a photo of something I don't recognise.

I have about 20 Shetlands, mostly Island bred; they go back to the beginning of the stud book in their breed lines. Not one has ever bitten or kicked anyone, they do riding and driving therapy for folk with problems ranging from depression through to wheelchair users and the like. It makes me really mad when folk bad mouth them. The biggest problem with Shetlands is they attract first time or no experience owners. Then they get ruined by people.

My passion in driving, I have had Haflingers, Fjords and Shetlands, For my own amusement a BIG shetland put to a BIG hackney pony would be a lovelly driving pony, but only that, I'd never try to register it as anything.

we are at http://www.thordale.co.uk
 
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These are my shetlands, they are refined and good natured... lots of knee action.


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On lease from Linda Hume


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Thes all came from breeders that have had shetlands for YEARS here. The are also all amhr or will be .



Lyn
 
littlearab, I was married to an old cowboy who has always said the same ' Ya gotta be smarter than the horse' He would say this in relation to folks and training problems and people spoiling or ruining horses due to ignorance or just not caring to educate themselves. (Folks who dont 'speak horse')
 
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Slaneyrose I know what you mean!

No disrespect meant to any Modern Shetlands btw...

I went to look at a pony years ago and the lady showed me her Shetland Stallion, I thought she had lost her mind :lol: :lol: Her was this refined, dainty thing.... I thought that is about as much Shetland as I am :lol: :lol:

I read up on the "American" Shetland and realised the lady was NOT crazy
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For me, having grown up in Ireland around the traditional shetland it is weird to see them look SO different and hard to see any similarities. Both are lovely in their own way just nothing alike, to me.

I would be interested to know what the reasoning behind such radical change in appearance was, any takers?
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Wally, I was trying to figure out where that picture was taken.... Beautiful, beautiful setting and horses, so green and lush everything looks!

I love your little dun pony in the picture, reminds me of my friends little pony when we were kids!
 
Very interesting topic. While I DO agree the "modern" Shetlands are beautiful
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: ....they certainly are NOT the Shetlands of years ago that I grew up with. And noone can tell me they "evolved" to what they are today on their own! My uncle raised Shetland ponies when I waz a child (approx 50 years ago) .....as well as a couple other people in our area. Those Shetlands were short, stocky, roly-poly ponies...and wouldn't even hold the muster against today's Miniatures....let alone Shetlands. The extreme action & refinement...and HEIGHT of today's Modern Shetlands had to come from introducing Hackney blood into them. You can SEE it.....most of the Modern Shetlands of today actually look like Hackneys (at least to me)
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: I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this....if this is where the Shetland breeders want to take the breed. I'm just saying that American Shetlands did NOT always look like this....far from it!

As far as the Shetland's "hot" personality....I'm sure there are many Shetlands who are sweet natured & make wonderful children's mounts.
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: But the shows don't do much to perpetuate this by the way they are shown in halter classes. They are so hopped up before entering the ring...they appear to be ready to jump out of their skin while trotting down the rail with a person chasing them with a whip.
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It's no wonder people get the idea that this is a hot blooded breed! JMHO

This being said.....I love watching the Shetland/Youth classes.
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I have never been able to understand the rationale behind calling the American "Shetland" a Shetland. Here was your chance to take as your own an incredibly beautiful, elegant little Show Pony- why on earth was the American Show Pony not born??

The Shetland Pony is just that- a Native Pony bred pure for hundreds of years (there was none of this "arabs swum in off the Spanish Armada" nonsense with Shetlands as there was with Welsh and Connemaras- ) they were untouched by any outside influence or interest until the Mining era loomed and they were taken for the mines.

The American "shetland" is a beautiful animal in it's own right but it is a crossbred Hackney (and I believe Sec A Welsh. Once you have gone that route you cannot go back, it would have been better to claim it as your own- IMO
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I agree with rabbit......I would have thought it deserved a new name/title. We all know miniature horses have shetland pony roots......but when they changed the look etc to the mini of today they got their new title of miniature horse. I would have thought the same should have been done with the hackney crosses. I too think they are gorgeous and would love one in my breeding program to put to smaller minis...I dont think anyone in Europe has them do they rabbitsfizz??

And Wally, my little mare has REALLY good knee action which is higher than any shetland I have seen, will this go against her in a show class or is it a good thing (I Love it and cant wait to see if she will pass it on to her foals as her stride isnt short or fast either for her height) but I`m not a shetland expert and she is my only one, so your expertize is appreciated. :) Thanks
 
New Style or old style, I have been raised with Shetlands and let me just say that is more than a couple of years.
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: Our shetlands have always been refined much as the ones today. Also then and now I have never had a HOT !! or Mean nasty one.. I have always said Shetlands got a bad rap years ago , as they were turned over to kids and adults never had a role in their learning habits.. :no: :no:
I agree and for the record many people say the same thing about minis and really is is the humans not the horse that is the issue 99.9 percent of the time

While I am sure some will flame me the bottom line for me is the shetlands I had as a kid were MINIS by size and not much different then my 34 and under minis I have had over the years and I rode them all day long they did fine. Granted they werent ultra refined however I dont think the shetlands we had as kids are gone I think we are just now calling them miniature horses (running and ducking now)
 
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A super brief history.........

Part of the name thing is due to the fact that the American Shetland Pony Club (which was originally founded using Imported Shetlands) predates the Shetland Pony Studbook Society. The American Shetland Pony Club is also the second oldest equine breed registry in the United States - only the Jockey Club is older.

Many of the early imports to the US were the taller, lighter bones ponies that were on the islands (several UK published books refer to the islands originally having 2 types of ponies). The smaller, draftier individuals were the ones in demand in their native country. The taller, lighter ones were the ones that US buyers demanded (there were imports from Shetland as tall as 46 inches in the first volume of the American Shetland Pony Club Studbook). The first half of the last century breeders concentrated on selectively breeding the more refined individuals to each other without cross breeding and the results were such such individuals as Silver Crescent. Not until the pony boom in the middle of the last century did behind the barn cross breeding become an issue. American Shetlands were demanding astronomical prices and where there is money, there will be fraud. Show Ring competition led to even more fraud as the higher moving ponies were pinnned.

By the time the market crashed cross breeding was rampant and entrenched. More than one old time breeder has told me that during the boom era the ideal American Shetland was 1/4 Hackney, 1/4 Section A Welsh, and 1/2 Shetland.

In the mid 70's the "A" and "B" pedigree designations were started to bring the cross breeding out into the open but all ponies still showed braided and shod up like Moderns are today (traditionally that is how they were shown in the US - I have no idea why though). "B" designation indicated a pony with more than 12.5% outcross breeding - the accepted outcrosses were Hackney, Welsh, Americana (a defunct Shetland/Hackney cross registry absorbed by the ASPC) and Harness Show Pony (a Shetland/Hackney cross registry the ASPC had started during the boom era).

In the late 70's and early 80's there was a movement to get back to the more "orginal" type of American Shetland. The name was later changed from "orginal" to Classic and the Classic Divison was born. In the mid 90's the ASPC decided to close the B division to outcrosses (by that point pretty much the only outcross being made was to Hackneys). Of course with no outcrossing B's will breed up to A and the result has been more extreme Classics. To give the more traditional type of American Shetland a place the Foundation division was formed (certification started in 2000). Foundation ponies cannot have any B papered ponies for 4 generations in their pedigree and must be 42 inches or under for show purposes.

As I said, a really brief history!
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There has been so much breeding of Hackneys into the Shetlands a New Breed should be considered and calling them Shackneys :new_shocked: I really don't care for that at all. JMO.
 

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