I Give Up

[Mini Love]

Very sorry for you and the little guy. I had a mare who had a wry nose-my grandmother rescued her as a foal when her breeder wanted to put her down because she wasn't perfect. She was the sweetest, most loving mare and never had any problems. We had her teeth floated once a year and she was good. Never had problems eating or keeping up weight. It's scary finding one of your horses has a 'deformity' but it's not the end of the world and in fact you may just love that horse more.

Here is our mare, Sweetie, pictured in her teens:

as you can see, her nose is much worse than your boys and she did just fine. If your boy does have a mild form of wry nose, there are very successful surgeries to fix them now if you do it early. It is more commonly seen in thoroughbreds and I read an article about the surgery on tb yearlings and 8 of them went on to race and the other 2 did not but did just fine as riding horses.

.
She is a sweet girl, Thank You for giving her a chance.. Thats what tic's me off there not perfect so put them down.. I understand in some cases, But if they dont have the heart to take the good with the bad or at least give them a chance they shouldnt be breeding... after your sweet mare I would bet they kept the mare and kept breeding her, with the hope it didnt happen again. Thats the sad part, I am sure she loves you - It seems when there are different or have issues there bond with there loving owners is even stronger - Thank You for seeing behond her issues

 

[Charlotte]

mini Love, that is a good article about wry nose. I have seen two miniature foals like that born some years ago. Neither were any way as bad as those in the article and both grew up to live happy normal lives. All of the vets who saw them and followed them said it is not genetic and is thought to be from the position of the foal in the uterus.

In one case the dam had normal foals before and after. The other mare had normal foals before but I lost track of her after the wry nose foal.

 

[Mini Love]

mini Love, that is a good article about wry nose. I have seen two miniature foals like that born some years ago. Neither were any way as bad as those in the article and both grew up to live happy normal lives. All of the vets who saw them and followed them said it is not genetic and is thought to be from the position of the foal in the uterus.

In one case the dam had normal foals before and after. The other mare had normal foals before but I lost track of her after the wry nose foal.

I know I qustion some things that they say are genetic, I think some times things just happen as you said the way there were laying in the uterus, kicks or tumbles they may have taken while in foal, a mare in foal underfeed or starving the odds on that foal having something wrong are much greater and it has nothing to do with genetic, For the breeder to say she didnt notice, thats just not right, I may not know much but one look ( with out her mouth open ) it was a clear issue that was being passed with out telling. UNLESS - Another thing i was wondering and unless she see's a vet we wont know, But maybe the mare step on it while they were driving them home & it is just missed placed, out of socket??? if no one seen it before. If it is an on going issue her teeth would not be even, they would wear to the shape - theeth not touching teeth would be taller and not flat, but her are not, they look like they touch & grinded at the same pace.. with that bite, how are her teeth so even? Like i said i dont know much, just my questions & wishing the best for them and if she goes back I hope she find a loving home.

 

[tagalong]

I feel so bad for you! Im shocked that the breeder didnt know? You can see that there is something wrong even without opening the mouth. I dont think he will need to be put down as I have seen much worse, but I agree on sending them back to the breeder if you can.

Agreed.

But maybe the mare step on it while they were driving them home & it is just missed placed, out of socket???

This is not an injury - then there would be swelling, heat, possibly blood and the foal would show some distress. Baby teeth at that age do not show extensive wear patterns.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm so sorry. I do agree is wry nose, but certainly not the worst case in the world. I would, however, expect the "breeder" to take the colt or colt and mare back and offer a full refund to you if that is what you choose. But please don't give up. There are SO, SO many wonderful mares out there with excellent conformation and foaling histories that are reasonably priced.

Good luck to you.

 

[Riverrose28]

It is indeed wry mouth, and it's not that bad, but, if you only want the two for pets and to love it shouldn't be that much of a problem unless you can't afford dentals every so often. On the other hand. I can't assume to know what this breeder advertised these two to be, but if the mare was advertised as a brood mare, NO! If the colt was advertised as show quality, NO!

This type of bad breeder, that doesn't disclose a horses obvious bad faults only gives good breeders a bad name. I've seen worse go through at auction, and pet people will buy them, but, they have seen the defects in person, and the horses were sold low and anyone with any knowledge would not buy the mare as a brood mare, her life as a broodmare is over. So, If you bought them as pets, that is one thing, if you bought them as brood mare and show colt that is another. I would send them back to the breeder and ask for a refund. First clue was, no shots, as you had to have the vet out to give them before shipping, please be forwarned, good breeders sell horses up to date on shots. I feel really bad for you to be in this situation there are many good breeders out there that would never sell a horse with this defect without letting the buyer know, more then likely if they had a horse born this way they would give it away before selling it. I've learned the hard way about buying horses, my hubby bought a supposed show colt at auction with great breeding, come to find out he was blind. Couldn't show him and he suffered a birth injury that the great show breeder didn't tell any one about, so he is crazy. This horse even though we had him gelded, took five people to restrain him, is impossable to deal with. We have to take a lose and we are having him put down this fall. We are responsible horse people and could not pass on this crazy horse. There are good breeders out there so please don't give up, many of us would never let our clients down.

 

[ohmt]

I'm sorry but I find it EXTREMELY judgmental of people to be accusing the breeder of being a 'bad breeder'. It was NOT good that they didn't notice the colts flaw, yes, but the op has said the mare and foal are going back so I can only assume that the breeder is trying to do the right thing here.

Wry nose has NOT been proven to be genetic. All the vets I have talked to and all research I've read except for the link posted here has said the exact same thing. I have done research on brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandsires and granddams to the mare I posted about earlier on this thread and none have produced a wry nosed foal or any foals with deformities.

MiniLove-My grandparents rescued that mare from my step great grandfather. As far as I know he DID keep breeding the mare, but not until he consulted with many vets about her condition. All thought it was due to position in the womb and was not genetically inherited. He was actually one that even way back in the 70's and 80's when dwarfs would bring thousands of dollars, would geld any stallion that produced one and gave away mares that produced them as pets. He was not well like by many, but was a responsible breeder otherwise.

In a vet book by Robert B Wiggs and Heidi B Lobprise:

"Wry malocclusion (nose) is virtually the same in all mammals. Wry bite is the result of unequal arch development. In severe cases, one side of the head shows underdevelopment, while the opposing side remains normal. Horses may show a total deviation of the muzzle that is severe. However, wry bite can present only as a dental malocclusion without effecting the head. Malalignment can be detected in less severe cases by tracing the midline of the head from top forward, down the muzzle, and between the teeth. The line between the upper and lower incisors will not match. Wry malocclusion can occur as the result of trauma in the developing foal or in early life; however, it is an inheritable abnormality."

 

[kaykay]

I just dont want the poster to feel guilty for sending them back. I think she should most certainly send them back. (then again it depends on if there was a contract and what it said) This is not what she bargained for. None of us can say that this guy will not require more than normal care and he could run into issues later.

I will say though that buyers have to do due diligence and educate themselves before buying their first miniature horses. A bad bite or deformity in a miniature horse is a fault just like it is in a big horse. It is normal and customary to always check a horses bite either in person or via pictures before buying a horse.

I just hate that a first experience was a bad one.

I do think that miniature breeders make way too many excuses to keep breeding horses that shouldnt be bred. Whether its wry mouth or club hooves, why breed horses with major faults when there are so many better examples to breed. Its not like there is a shortage of nice breeding miniatures.

 

[ohmt]

I agree with you Kaykay, way too many excuses for horses being bred. I was not trying to say that the mare should be kept for breeding, just trying to shed some light.

Diane, yes there are sources that say it IS and sources that say it isn't. That's the trouble. Nothing is proven, but based on my discussions with vets and my own research, I believe it is not. Emphasis on the 'I believe' part.

To the OP-i hope you find your perfect mare. She will come along, don't give up

 

[MajorClementine]

So sorry. How heartbreaking to think you've found your perfect pair and then to see this little guy is not-so-perfect. Glad it wasn't me because I would have HAD to keep him. I fall in love with animals that need help and aren't perfect and I take it upon myself to make sure they live full lives no matter what. Needless to say... I have a lot of critters around here. In your case I think you did the right thing to send him back to the breeder. Hopefully she can take care of him or find a good pet home for him. I've seen Wry mouth in dogs that was a lot worse than this and they did just fine in life. Good luck on your search, keep looking, the right pair will find you... they always do in the end.

 

[SampleMM]

Zipper, I am so very sorry about this and I can't imagine how devastated you must feel. May I give you a piece of advice, always go look at any horse before purchasing. A plane ticket is much cheaper than years of disappointment. When I have a person contact me, I tell them everything........the good, the bad, and everything in between. I'm sure it's terrible for sales but I'm a real straight shooter and trust me, I'm not saying that this breeder wasn't being honest but maybe doesn't understand much in the way of conformation. Keep your chin up and let us know what you decide.

I'm sorry, I guess I missed you had decided to send them back.........I personally think you made the right call.

 

[Zipper]

Thanks so much for the article on wry mouth. Had lots of info.

The breeder when I phoned and told her said right away to bring them back and she would refund the money. She did say if I wanted to keep them she would reduce the price and just pay for the mare. I know that she didnt know anything was wrong I had went and looked at them at least 5 times but they were not tame you couldnt walk up and catch them or touch them.

First let me say I am not afraid to take on and commit the time and care to animals with issues and deal and look after them as we do have a couple here but I was not looking for a rescue.

I took the mare and foal back and it was hard as I thought about keeping them and I know I would give them a good home but as my husband said it was not up to me to take this pair on when there was health issues involved as that wasnt what I was looking for and I still wouldnt have what I was looking for as I wouldnt be able to show him and his jaw was bad enough that you wouldnt be able to drive him when he was old enough.

Sorry I am so disappointed that it didnt work out but I am a old girl and I will get over it .

Thanks everybody for your ideas and support and suggestions of how to deal with this as I really was floundering.

Great group of people.

Nice part is you know you are not alone with all of you out there to help.

 

[Jill]

Oh man... seeing horses with wrye mouths pictured here -- just so very sorry!!!

I also find it hard to believe that the breeder didn't realize. Gosh, I am always putting my fingers in our horses' mouths to verify all is still as it should be. Bites are a big, big deal to most conscientious breeders.

 

[Eagle]

Zipper I would have done the same thing. your special horse will find you soon just keep looking.