I know this has been brought up many times...

[HGFarm]

Well, in defense of the folks who have the dogs I know, their 10 acres IS fenced with 5 and 6 foot fencing. It did not deter the dogs in the least from constantly working to find a way out. Can't protect if they arent home. LOL And the one barks all the time, whether kenneled or not. There is nothing there and you can tell when they are barking AT something, or just barking to hear themselves bark. She has done that since she was a pup.

The owners would never send them to a rescue, in fact they are both about 8 1/2 years old now. However, I am not sure what is considered as 'training' with this type of breed- they are not IN with the horses but had patrol duties for the area where the cattle and their big horses are kept- they had the run of several acres. How do you make a dog, who wants out all the time, have the desire to stay HOME and do what they are supposed to?

I have always had herding dogs, and have NEVER had a problem with them chasing livestock or the horses, they are not allowed to, and know what their job is. The first one I had helped us work cattle, but only when we went - otherwise he was part of the family. The second was raised more as a family dog, as part of that time for a couple of years I didnt have horses- and I would have trusted him with my life to take care of things. He was the best dog.

The BC I have now can get 'cracked out' once in a while- HIGH energy dog, but the BC mix I have is much mellower but is still a good watch dog and both are loving pets. They are both good boys.

I will explain too though, that they are now allowed IN the horse's lots, but coyotes and other things can't get in there either... however they have the run of the rest of the folks. I worry more about 2 legged snakes than I do the coyotes, LOL

 

[uwharrie]

We had a Maremma when we had goats who was a fantastic LGD, she did not roam, did not bark excessively, was not agressive to strangers but did warn them if they came onto the property (neighbors live right on our fenceline)

My only regret was I got her from a less than responsible breeder. I had to euthanize her due to autoimune issues before she reached her 2nd birth day. If I do ever get another LGD it will be a Maremma, just from a breeder who knows a bit more about responsible breeding.

 

[albahurst]

We are getting a Great Pyr next week. It is still a puppy and we will have to train it. Guaranteed to be an effective working dog by age 18 months. Also, guaranteed from hip dysplasia/patella problems. We bought it from a reputable breeder of LGDs. PM if you would like contact info.

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo74/al...ng11-2-09-2.jpg

 

[Linz]

Well, I know it's probably a little late in the discussion to mention it, but there are a few other livestock guardian breeds of dog that I haven't seen mentioned. One of which is a Karakachan, and several other breeds can be found here too.

Predators worry me here, with not having a dog or mule yet out with the fainting goats, and there are supposed to be small black pumas in the area, in addition to bears and coyotes. I've heard of mules just about shredding mountain lions to pieces.

 

[Magic]

All the LGDs I think are very different to work with than other breeds of dogs.

This is very true. Some LGD owners say that they are much like cats, in that they are such independent thinkers. After all, they've been bred for ages to take care of livestock with little to no input from humans (after full training and acclimatization, if that is a word, lol).

Some LGDs will naturally bark more than others, and it's an individual thing, as all of the LGD breeds are very much alike. From my research I knew how to handle my Anatolian puppy's barking, which was to aknowlege that she found something worth barking at, check it out for myself, and then either praise her for her diligence, or tell her she did fine, but now hush. That way she learned what *I* considered viable threats, and what I didn't want her to bark at (like the neighbors when they were on their own property). We went through it all again when we got our already-adult Pyr/Anatolian, and he was so hyped up about being in a new and apparently terribly-scary place, he barked almost all the time at first. My husband was highly annoyed. I just did the same with him (the LGD, not hubby, lol) as I had done with the other LGD, and he slowly settled down and now barks only for perceived threats.

These dogs aren't like buying a security system, you don't just get them and toss them out to do their job. But if you are willing to do the research on how to train, and take the time to work with them, they can be awesome. My dogs love me -- I think I'm part of the "herd" to them, but I'm also the beloved boss-- and I love them.

 

[HGFarm]

Well, that is what I do with all my dogs, if there is not something valid to bark about, they are not to be barking. I would have to say the friends I know did NOT do this with theirs, thus, probably why they bark all the time at nothing. Not really any training went on there.

 

[Dona]

Great Pyrenees all the way!!!

I've had two.....and they are absolutely the best dogs I've ever had.

The Anatolians & other breeds of LGDs are probably just as good, I just don't have any experience with them.

 

[Minimor]

That is what we do with our dogs too--teach them to bark only at things that they should bark at--not that we have LGD breeds, we rely on our German Shepherd to watch and guard and warn us of trouble. We don't expect her (or them if we have more than one) to actually chase or attack predators--coyotes & foxes would be our biggest problem. The Shepherds can handle the foxes, but with coyotes the dogs just have to let us know the coyotes are around and then we can deal with them--same with any bigger predators. We haven't had a cougar problem since 1991 and the timberwolves haven't been here since 2003 as far as we know--and we've never had a bear come this far out of the forest reserve in the 25 years we've been here.

We had some trouble replacing our last good watch dog, Sheba, but now have a Shepherd pup that is almost as good--or will be almost as good once she is a little older--and the plan is to get another one like her next year when the breeder has another litter off the same parents. The Shepherds generally do a good job of guarding against 2 legged intruders, and are a deterrent to predator animals. But, we have close neighbors & cannot have a dog that barks incessantly at nothing. (Though some of our neighbors do have such dogs!) Many people do NOT teach their dogs to not bark constantly at nothing. We can't stand that, and expect better from our dogs.

 

[Miniequine]

Thanks you all for your experiences and ideas.

I have 4 dogs.. and do NOT need another..

Just trying to think of ways to NOT have to worry so much next spring.

I like the Pyr... but wonder about the coat care....

and the wandering issues...

My place is totally fenced with 3 board fence w/ elec too.

Will that keep it in???

My German Shepherd will not get near the elec. And.. NO....

She is not allowed near my ponies.... she chases them... to bad..

cause she would be a GREAT deterrent to the coyotes. They would NEVER

get out on her area alive. I guess that is one of my concerns about another dog.

If it too does not work out...

I just don't think there is a financially feasible fence for me to consider,

and I don't have the space for a donkey, which leaves me back to considering

a LGD.

Decisions, decisions....

)

~Sandy

 

[vickie gee]

Thanks you all for your experiences and ideas. I have 4 dogs.. and do NOT need another..

Just trying to think of ways to NOT have to worry so much next spring.

I like the Pyr... but wonder about the coat care....

and the wandering issues...

My place is totally fenced with 3 board fence w/ elec too.

Will that keep it in???

My German Shepherd will not get near the elec. And.. NO....

She is not allowed near my ponies.... she chases them... to bad..

cause she would be a GREAT deterrent to the coyotes. They would NEVER

get out on her area alive. I guess that is one of my concerns about another dog.

If it too does not work out...

I just don't think there is a financially feasible fence for me to consider,

and I don't have the space for a donkey, which leaves me back to considering

a LGD.

Decisions, decisions....

)

~Sandy

I don't really have the correct answer as to whether or not your fence would hold a LGD. They are pretty much escape artists not for the sake of escaping but to protect whatever they "perceive" to be the area to protect. How much space is between your board fence? Would it be easy enough to use it as a "ladder" and then hop over the electricity? Or is your electricity along the ground to deter digging? These dogs will protect with their lives...the online info about how they are keeping the Cheetah from being killed by bullets because the big cats are afraid enough of the dog to stay away from the Anatolian Shepherd has become a recent tv documentary...it is a win/win situation. But these goat/sheep herders are open on the plains. Also there is a story of a handful of Anatolians fighting off an entire group of alpha male baboons and fighting to the death to protect their charges. Only one dog lived and killed the last two baboons and had it's wound sewed up right under a tree because it would not leave it's charges. The fence is not the only thing you have concerns about. Our female is so dedicated to the minis and goats it is an absolute chore to get her to the vet. The male is a little more flexible...also into people whereas she is not. That being said, when we chose this breed after much research we spent a heap of money in a 5' high welded pipe fence with 2" non climb wire attached. Great for the dogs but the horses tend to bend the wire scratching their rumps on it! Although our dogs are confined to our 3 acres they can see neighbor's house across the highway. They think they are supposed to protect them and especially their grandchildren as well. They basically accept accept these neighbors 3 vehicles and motorcycle and their grown children's vehicles. Anything else, bowwowwow!!! The neighbors love it since they recently had some rifraff trying to steal out of their garage. Also they tell us a story of someone pulling up to what is now our house years ago and making off with all the furniture. Don't thing that would happen to this house now. Sorry, to ramble. Back to your situation: I don't believe your fence is going to keep the average livestock guardian in. That being said maybe you should consider fostering one, whether it be purebred, mixed breed, or whatever. Chances are you might find one that is so taken with it's new home and you that it could stay home and protect as well. I have a friend that has a couple a dogs that just show up dumped near her place in the sticks and they kill all predators and stay home. You could foster until you and the right one found each other and then you could go ahead and adopt. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Hi Sandy

Our Pyrs have never been much in the way of jumping out of our area - they won't stay in a stall tho, but our stall walls are only about 31" tall so it isn't that big of a deal - they are pretty heavy for any big jumps. Our Anatolin/Pyr cross is constantly excaping - she doesn't go very far and marks as if she was a male - highly annoying for me, but so far she always comes back home. Our Pyr never tries to leave and he easily could as we drive in and out of our driveway (that is when Bella takes off). Our front fence is 3-rail with hotwire between the rails and after the new dog has been trained to the wire they stay away and don't test, dig, or get close enough to jump over - that said it is really the pits to have to "teach" a young dog about hotwire because it means that you are on one side of the fence and the pup is on the inside - you get the picture, their little cold nose gets zapped and then they off to hide under the front porch until they feel it is safe to come out -- I hate to go thru it, but it usually only takes one and maybe 2 zaps and they get the message. I think properly conditioned your dog would work out great - a pup under 8 mos would probably be your best bet - good luck not turning it into another buddy - I am pitiful about that part of the "training" but my LGD's do their job and love me to pieces - I just love to come home and see my Pyr "smiling" at me - which they seem prone to do - he squints and all!

Stac

 

[MinisOutWest]

My dogs name is .223. If you have an over abundance of Yotes, then call your local wildlife office and they can get the issue under control legally. The pic you showed is not a strong, healthy looking Yote. He looks like he is hungary and really struggles for food (what we call a scraggler), so I guess he is on a mission and would take anything down to survive. I am not a professional coyote expert, but my Yotes are huge(65-75 lb, not 35-50 lb), fat, fluffy, tails so thick- wider than my hand spread wide open. Our Yotes have a huge abundance of food, so they are really healthy and we have no issues with them and our minis- But our kitty cats are fair game for them, so we must protect them with everything we've got. Including a small game hunting license with a Yote tag added to it. Oh, if you put up a strong fence, not a wobbly one, I have watched momma yotes show their pups how to climb up n over a 6 ft fence, go to the chicken house and climb back up n over with a chicken in their mouth! yotes dig under too, so buring a fence into the ground about 4-6 inches can help deter. But honestly, there is an issue with the food chain around you and the wildlife people can help you with suggestions and solutions. Use them, they are great people and nothing hurts to have a close relationaship with them, they deal with this all the time.

My experience with Pyr's- they bark constantly. and I cannot stand a dog who crys wolf all the time!

 

[Dona]

My dogs name is .223. If you have an over abundance of Yotes, then call your local wildlife office and they can get the issue under control legally. The pic you showed is not a strong, healthy looking Yote. He looks like he is hungary and really struggles for food (what we call a scraggler), so I guess he is on a mission and would take anything down to survive. I am not a professional coyote expert, but my Yotes are huge(65-75 lb, not 35-50 lb), fat, fluffy, tails so thick- wider than my hand spread wide open. Our Yotes have a huge abundance of food, so they are really healthy and we have no issues with them and our minis- But our kitty cats are fair game for them, so we must protect them with everything we've got. Including a small game hunting license with a Yote tag added to it. Oh, if you put up a strong fence, not a wobbly one, I have watched momma yotes show their pups how to climb up n over a 6 ft fence, go to the chicken house and climb back up n over with a chicken in their mouth! yotes dig under too, so buring a fence into the ground about 4-6 inches can help deter. But honestly, there is an issue with the food chain around you and the wildlife people can help you with suggestions and solutions. Use them, they are great people and nothing hurts to have a close relationaship with them, they deal with this all the time.
My experience with Pyr's- they bark constantly. and I cannot stand a dog who crys wolf all the time!

Neither one of my Pyrs bark constantly. They WILL bark if they see or hear something strange, as they should. That is how they warn wouldbe preditors to stay away. But, they have never just barked non-stop for no reason. Just my own experience with Pyrs.

 

[Marty]

I never had a livestock protection dog but like Sandy, I've got a German Shepherd.

Although Amy is not an outside dog, she is outside much of the day in the pasture playing with "her" horses while I'm out there. I trust and value the German Shepherd nose. When she is in the house, she can smell a predator a mile away and raise holy cane about it which alerts me. If I open the door, she's on him like a shot out of a cannon. We have trouble mostly with dog packs and some coyotes who have gotten rather bold and brave these past couple of years.

Sandy, I actually have a double fence. The first fence around the permiter was very old, nasty field fencing when we bought the place. Over time, the weeds and thorny bushes grew up over it and into it making it quite an ugly fortress. So instead of tearing it down, I let it work for me. So we built our field fencing about 6 feet in front of it, giving our horses a good safe fenceline. That's in the back field, opposite end of our house, furtherest part away from it. It would be a complete freak accident if anything made its way in there easily through the old fence without getting itself hung up or torn to shreds first. We also have two rows of hot wires along the top and through the middle.

On the vinal board fencing we have two strands of hot wire running along the inside and out. You can try backing up your board fencing with field fencing and some serious hot wire.

During the day I keep the radio on in the barn so when there isn't human activity, there is something coming from the barn. We also have plenty of outside lighting at night and I know when Amy is having a fit, I need to pay attention. I never underestimate the power of a German Shepherd. They just seem to always "know".