I want to know

[Minimor]

Horse semen is freezable--I know many breeders (large horse) that offer AI by frozen or fresh cooled. From prices I have seen, though, freezing is not cheap--I saw a price list from one company (they store the frozen semen for stallion owners, and when a straw is needed they send it out), offhand I can't remember what the prices were, but I do remember thinking it's not something I could ever afford to do.

Remember that not every stallion freezes well, so some just are not candidates for it.

Remember, too, that (as I said before) AI means that the stallion owner does still have to deal with mare owners, and working with transported semen can be even more difficult than having the mare on farm for live cover. Why? Because the stallion owner must trust that the mare owner has a good vet--one that is well versed in AI. The vet must be able to tell when the mare is about to ovulate, so that the semen can be ordered and received at just the right time. Fresh cooled has a limited "life" so the shipment must arrive on schedule or it will be ruined. (And there have been shipments that were held up by delayed flights, bad weather or incomplete paperwork when crossing an international border) Frozen semen makes that many more variables. The vet receiving the shipment must know how to properly thaw the semen; thawed incorrectly the straw will be useless.

Mare owner generally pays the shipping costs and may even have to pay a collection fee to the stallion owner each time a shipment is requested; it can get very costly for the mare owner if things don't go well, but at the same time one must remember that repeated requests for semen gets to be a hassle for the stallion owner too--and can be especially annoying if the problem is the veterinarian that is working with the mare.

Transported semen is a wonderful option, but it isn't the answer for every breeder.

 

[shadowsmystictopaz]

thanks alex and minimore I am gonna ask another appy breeder for some help to maybe see what they can do to help out. She owns many appaloosas with bloodlines that are amazing and I belive maybe she can help because im sure many look up to the breeding program they have. I appreciate everything you guys have done and I am gonna keep going till I get what I want. If you dream soemthing its definitly worth a try and I say to never give up so im gonna keep going and see what happends. the advice has helped me see that i need to just keep going because i know that its important to me that i do get something out of what i have learned.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I think probably, in many cases, first and foremost is the fact that it would decrease the sales of the horses that are for sale by that stallion owner. Lets say they charge $2500 and up for the babies produced. They more than likely wouldn't be able to charge enough or wouldn't get many takers on high stud fees. Then comes into play do they have the insurance or would have to buy the insurance for having mares come on their property to be bred and the space to house them. Third, they want to keep control on what mare their stallion crosses with. It is their repurtation on the line as a breeding farm and if they have no control on the "breeding pair" it might not be a good marketing move to do this.

 

[Jill]

Leia --

I think you may be onto something in a way. It's a logical thing to wonder about, if the backyard breeders don't have access to these nice stallions others don't want to stand, how can they improve. But, I think that the problem is that so many people buy a $600 mare and a $500 stallion and are breeders. Not that there are not nice horses that can be found at those prices, but what I'm trying to say is that there is a set of people who don't want to come off a dime and wouldn't realize how much better even $2500 stallion might be if they took their time and looked. It's all about what's got the parts, what's cheap, and if it's a neat color so much the better. SO many people who are into breeding haven't tried to learn about conformation or type (and I am one who thinks type should be a factor). Lots of people jump into breeding minis without first trying to learn. On the other hand, even if more owners stood their stallions, these types of people I have in mind are not going to pay a stud fee which is probably more than they could buy a stallion THEY would use for breeding their mares.

We know I am new to this breeding and who knows where it will take me or if I'll even want to do it long term. But to me, it is honestly an awesome responsibility to be responsible for bringing lives into the world that may be here 30 or more years. It's not something I COULD do without having spent years trying to learn and doing my best to line up the horses who hopefully will be good choices as parents. I feel responsible for the foals that happen because I decided to breed __________ to _____________. I don't understand why some people take it so lightly. No other breed of horse has so many people breeding their horses as does our breed.

Jill

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Not that it will seem to make much difference to you, but the stallion owners are probably trying to "make" their stallion. By breeding only to mares they have selected and own, they can give that stallion the best opportunity to become more valuable. Think of it this way, if you were trying to make your mares more valuable, you would breed her to the best stallion you could find, hope her foal was a knockout, and went on to perform well in National competitions, then people would be anxious for her future foals, and you could demand a much higher price for them. For them, it is an economic decision, and they have set a certain program for this stallion, and they are sticking to it. No matter how much pressure you put on them, they are not obligated to breed to your mare, nor will they. There are probably many more stallions that equal this one out there, so my advice to you would be try to find one of those, wait a couple of years on this horse, and you will be much happier. If this post came across a little snappy, I'm sorry, but I totally understand their reasoning.

I broke my resolution not to stand one of my stallions to outside mares, bred him to a friend's horse, and produced a foal that was not a top of the line baby. She too (the friend) felt I should want his foals out there in the public. Well, she sold the foal, so now out there representing him in the public is a foal that is sub-standard in my opinion. Not at all what I wanted for my guy!

 

[shadowsmystictopaz]

yojur awsome texas dont worry about it. i appreciate all this and I emailed a bbreeder late last night and i am hoping to hear from her today.

 

[Suzie]

We don't stand our stallions to outside mares anymore- not because we had any problems, but because I know way too many stallion owners who did. I have spent a lot of time looking for my boys and never want anything to happen to them. One guy told me he spent more on his vet bill for his stallion than his stud fees were.....where is the goal here?

Just this week I had a colt for sale. One man came over and looked at him. Then he got the bright idea that because I live close to him, he will just use my stallions. I told him I don't stand to outside mares (politely as he is a nice man). He still went home thinking I will change my mind in the spring....nope. If he wants my bloodlines, I have NICE colts for sale.

I did not give him any reason for not studding out....and I hope he does not press the issue. But my life experience is that some people just can't take no for an answer.

 

[BigDogs & LittleHorses]

I find it funny that the same people who won't offer their superior breeding stallion to someone who wants to improve their lines but has limited resources or an average quality mare get all bent out of shape when that person ends up buying a mediocre stallion for their own use.

Super stud farm owner: "THAT is your stallion???! He is not worthy of being one! You should have him gelded! There are too many mediocre stallions! He will make mediocre offspring!"

Novice owner: "Well, I'd also like to produce quality miniature horses..."

Super stud farm owner: "Good! Here is a wonderful example of the breed. See my stallion? He has won blah blah blah awards and produced blah blah blah champions, blah blah blah blah...."

Novice owner: "Wow! He is beautiful, and I can see his superior quality very clearly now! Can I possibly breed one of my mares to him!"

Super stud farm owner: "THAT is you mare???!

 

[nightflight]

Super Stud Farm Owner: Spend some time learning the ropes, showing your horses, educating your eye, and paying your dues until the term "Novice Owner" doesn't apply any longer, then we'll talk.

Novice Owner: No way! I want to be a breeder and I want to be a breeder NOW! If I end up with ugly foals next year it's going to be your fault because you wouldn't let me breed to Super Spiffy Stallion!

It's darned if you do and darned if you don't.

If you don't quality check mares and the homes they are from before you approve them for breeding, you are unethical - a bad breeder. Just in it for the money, and not thinking about the future of the breed.

If you turn down mares that don't make the cut then you are a snob and encouraging the breeding of poor quality horses because that owner will buy a cheap stallion to breed to.... nevermind that the mare wasn't approved for a reason.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I find it funny that the same people who won't offer their superior breeding stallion to someone who wants to improve their lines but has limited resources or an average quality mare get all bent out of shape when that person ends up buying a mediocre stallion for their own use.

Super stud farm owner: "THAT is your stallion???! He is not worthy of being one! You should have him gelded! There are too many mediocre stallions! He will make mediocre offspring!"

Novice owner: "Well, I'd also like to produce quality miniature horses..."

Super stud farm owner: "Good! Here is a wonderful example of the breed. See my stallion? He has won blah blah blah awards and produced blah blah blah champions, blah blah blah blah...."

Novice owner: "Wow! He is beautiful, and I can see his superior quality very clearly now! Can I possibly breed one of my mares to him!"

Super stud farm owner: "THAT is you mare???!

While I understand your frustration and I am not a Super Stud Farm Owner.. the odds are that the novice horse owner does have pet quality or very mediocre stallions and mares so why would someone who has spent years and thousands of dollars making mistakes and finally getting where they are want to breed to a mare they dont feel is up to there standards? Or risk there stallion period?

While it is done a bit more in the large horses I really do think that the percentage of large horse owners interested in breeding by any means with there own stallion, AI, Standing out whatever... is so minimal compared to mini owners who somehow feel like they HAVE to breed- i mean most show careers of our horses are over by 3 so those mares can quickly get out in that broodmare band that is not anywhere near as common in the large horse world

The longer I am in this breed the less inclined I am to breed. The more I learn the more I can accept there is tons for me to learn and I ask myself.. no matter how much better "I" get those that I aspire to be like program wise will always continue to have years and experience on me how many foals do I need to proudce to attempt to get to my goal and then I reach my goal and then what ? Does this breed honestly need one more breeder even a above average one ( If I feel I get to that point) I mean honestly do I really think I can outproduce people like Doc Taylor, Limestone miniatures, the Mcarthy's, Buckeye just to name a very few off the top of my head. Of course I cant - and if I managed to get one that was close at this point it would be luck. Now I could work off of luck and keep going but again the question goes back to (for me) how many foals will be born her at my place to try and reproduce my luck and or improve on it?

Does all of this mean I will never breed a horse again - of course not but I have realized that every breeder who is selling there horses surely is not selling one they honestly believe is the next National Grand-

I will breed what I intend to keep maybe one horse every 3- 4 years but for now I have decided FOR ME and ME ALONE- to stop breeding and honestly I couldnt be happier I can sit back and enjoy my horses, love them knowing the flaws they have and not worry about trying to "fix" anything or worry about risking my mares. The pressure is off and I for one am LOVING IT!

I realize this is me and my opinion I am not saying no one should breed I am simply saying for me - armed with more knowledge now then 10 years ago, armed with the mentors that I have -I am VERY comfortable with this decision. More so then I ever thought I would be. Accepting of the fact that I have decent horses who have held there own at Nationals and even so I will not now nor never be Super Stud Farm Owner and that is perfectly OK

 

[Jill]

Super Stud Farm Owner: Spend some time learning the ropes, showing your horses, educating your eye, and paying your dues until the term "Novice Owner" doesn't apply any longer, then we'll talk.

Novice Owner: No way! I want to be a breeder and I want to be a breeder NOW! If I end up with ugly foals next year it's going to be your fault because you wouldn't let me breed to Super Spiffy Stallion!

Very good way to make the point. That sums up the way I see it to be with many "breeders"

 

[Margaret]

Lots of common sense and good info offered on this post.

It takes alot of work and effort to settle someone elses mare.

My husband often asks me why I do it,- when he see's all the time and energy I spend, when breeding an outside mare, -in comparison to what I am charging.

I suppose if I did not enjoy it, it would seem like too much work for sure.

Also,- I personally dont like to take in more than 3 out side mares a season, so as to keep my schedule open for other events.

Perhaps you just have not knocked on the right door yet.

Once you find a suitable stallion, an early booking might be your best way to secure a breeding, as some breeders like myself have limits on how many they will take in.

 

[Miniequine]

The longer I am in this breed the less inclined I am to breed. Does all of this mean I will never breed a horse again - of course not but I have realized that every breeder who is selling their horses surely is not selling one they honestly believe is the next National Grand-

I realize this is me and my opinion I am not saying no one should breed I am simply saying for me - armed with more knowledge now then 10 years ago, armed with the mentors that I have -I am VERY comfortable with this decision. More so then I ever thought I would be. Accepting of the fact that I have decent horses who have held there own at Nationals and even so I will not now nor never be Super Stud Farm Owner and that is perfectly OK

I have come to feel the same way.

~Sandy

 

[MiniaturePrincess429]

If your a back yard breeder and want to breed quality horses, shouldn't you start with qualityto get quality? I know you should try and buy the best that you can afford, but if yo can only afford the 500 dollar minis then maybe you shouldn't breed, because, (no flames please) most horses not even just minis at that price are NOT breeding quality. Now don't get me wrong might be able to buy a nice mare for that much, but the likely hood of that happening is slim. So why don't you wait and save up to buy a really nice mare, or colt. That what I don't under stand is why people buy cheap mare and then want to breed them to nice stallions and when they get refused they get angry. AND in NO WAY am i saying that your mare is cheap,or what not, im just saying ingeneral.

 

[Jill]

I agree

 

[HGFarm]

I will just add my 2 cents worth as to why I do not breed to outside mares with my Appy stud- it's a lot of extra WORK and stress, the responsibility, and dealing with some of the people- on a variety of aspects. It's not that their mare is not a wonderful example of the breed.

 

[Katiean]

Hey, I know that these horse owners don't have to give reasons for not breeding to a mare. However, If I had a stud someone showed intrest in breeding to, I would have the good graces God gave me to be nice and tell the person why I don't breed outside mares. I don't think it needs to be said that they "DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A REASON". I think that is just plain rude. I thought we were supposed to HELP others learn.

 

[Margaret]

So true,... I had to turn down 3 mares last year - although I would have loved to breed them for her, my husband just had too much on his plate back then, and asked me to pass on those breedings- so that I could give him my attention.

I told her that my hubby just could not allow it this year,- but suggested that she try me back at a better time.

People remember how you made them feel,... and if they have good thoughts about you, they just might be a future customer of yours, or better yet bring you one.

There are alot of nice people on this forum, that have been very nice to me for no reason, so I have faith that you will find some nice people to work with.

 

[Jill]

Hey, I know that these horse owners don't have to give reasons for not breeding to a mare. However, If I had a stud someone showed intrest in breeding to, I would have the good graces God gave me to be nice and tell the person why I don't breed outside mares. I don't think it needs to be said that they "DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A REASON". I think that is just plain rude. I thought we were supposed to HELP others learn.

I have no idea if the stallion owner gave an initial explaination but get the feeling from the OP that she was pressing for more of a why. As a stallion owner, I would first thank the person and then explain that I do not stand our stallions to outside mares. I doubt I'd get into the "why" of it (unless they were people I already communicate with). It's not rude in my opinion to say something like:

"Thank you for your interest in breeding a mare to our stallion. However, at this time, we do not stand him to outside mares."

That, really, is polite and enough.

 

[shadowsmystictopaz]

I am getting emais from breeders so I am doing good for now. Everyone has been awsome ill give you all a pat on the back.